Ngc +CAC CROSSOVER to PCGS results
dollarfan
Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
Hello. I have several nicer carson city Morgan's, pl and dpl that I would love in a truview gold shield holder. I have never tried crossover but heard it can be hit or miss. Does anyone have any experiences they could share. Does the CAC help much? Please advise as I would greatly appreciate any info. Thanks!
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My experience trying to cross NGC CAC approved coins to PCGS is limited to just 8 coins. Only 4 of them crossed.
You can always request that the grade stays the same or better. If they think it's less than already holdered, they will send it back in the NGC holder. You will lose the CAC. Personally I wouldn't do it UNLESS you suspect they will upgrade. I'm not confident in my grading to discern the difference of one point. So, I don't go for crossovers.
bob
Wow that’s…. Troubling.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
I was definitely disappointed. The only good thing about it was I submitted during the Long Beach show crossover special so the failed coins only cost me 10 bucks each. I plan to try again the next time they have a special.
Wow 4 out of 8 with a CAC green bean does seem sort of troubling. Does anyone know who may be tougher on dmpl coins? I buy the coin and try to judge the grade for myself. I have passed on many OGH pcgs coins both PL and Dmpl because of lack of reflectivity I just like the look of the gold shield Tru views as a personal thing. I will probably just send them all and see how it goes.
I should clarify that I specified that I was not willing to take a lower grade….
Yes I agree strongly with that sentiment. Especially if the coin appears correctly graded.
I was thinking about bidding on an NGC coin with a CAC sticker and trying to get it to cross at grade. I will think again.
Really it’s foolish…. PCGS has accepted CAC (registries)…. I think it should be an automatic cross. Really can’t see why they did not cross. The most expensive coins passed and the 4 cheaper coins did not. But the cheaper coins were all very nice and It’s hard to believe pcgs would end up thinking they were not passable… I was warned by a well known high end dealer prior that typically pcgs will only cross about half of them…. So I expected it… But it still hurt!
CAC did!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I believe there is built in bias by both firms on crossovers, I won't waste the money on that service. If you have to have a certain brand of plastic just sell what you have and buy what you want in the plastic you need.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Keep in mind that PCGS can't look at the coin in a crossover. They have to determine BASED ONLY ON WHAT THEY CAN SEE THROUGH THE NGC SLAB. As soon as they crack the slab, they're committed to giving the coin whatever grade is listed as your minimum. So they're going to be extremely cautious about taking that step. As will every other grading service.
If it doesn't cross and it is returned in the NGC holder the CAC sticker is not lost.
Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Lance.
I don’t think the CAC sticker helps at all. I have had mixed results trying to cross NGC coins with CAC stickers. However, I think there is some benefit to sending a coin in to CAC before attempting to cross. Specifically, if I send a coin to CAC and it does not sticker, I’m less inclined to spend any additional money attempting to cross. Not that I don’t think the coin would still have a good shot at crossing, but for me, I’d prefer not to spend the money crossing if the coin is unlikely to ultimately sticker. But that’s my personal preference.
I think the review process seems tougher for crossing than it does for getting a CAC sticker. Probably due to the built in bias. My coins that did not cross would probably have a pretty good shot of being slabbed in the same grade if submitted to PCGS raw IMO. I hear it is not uncommon for coins that do not cross to ultimately cross at a later date.
@daltex said: “ Keep in mind that PCGS can't look at the coin in a crossover. They have to determine BASED ONLY ON WHAT THEY CAN SEE THROUGH THE NGC SLAB. As soon as they crack the slab, they're committed to giving the coin whatever grade is listed as your minimum. So they're going to be extremely cautious about taking that step. As will every other grading service.”
This is a good point, but it raises a question: if you submit it at cross at any grade, do they remove it from the slab first, thereby increasing the chance of crossover?
PCGS crossing an NGC-CAC coin is no more automatic than a PCGS plus coin earning a CAC sticker. Each service has its standards.
I have crossed many dozens of NGC coins. I cross at any grade when I'd prefer the coin in PCGS plastic. If I feel one that crossed at a lower grade didn't get a fair shake I will have it regraded (where it is cracked and viewed raw, for the fairest assessment).
I agree that often it is better to just buy the coin you want in PCGS plastic if that is important to you. Sometimes a coin is scarce and it is not that simple.
Lance.
No. PCGS has to be assured it can straight-grade. So it will never crack unless it is committed to that.
Lance.
edit to add: Furthermore, once a (conservative) cross decision is made the coin in its slab is moved along. It does not go back to graders after cracking for another look-see.
Of course there is bias. Virtually all CAC coins should cross to PCGS and vise versa, they are “Solid for the grade”
Last year I submitted a Old Blue Holder PCGS 67 Monster coin to NGC Hoping it would upgrade to 68, two previously had and they wouldn’t even + it? Yet their lone 67+ couldn’t even get a CAC sticker! PCGS
My philosophy has always been to sell the coin and buy another in the holder I prefer. Rather than chance wasting the funds, it has seemed the better path. Alternatively, I have seen other reports that cracking and submitting raw has been fairly successful. I have not tried that method. Cheers, RickO
My crossover attempts are few. I think I've only sent one NGC with a CAC sticker -- a 50-S BTW graded 64PL I sent right when they first started using PL on coins other than Morgan dollars. PCGS said no. If you know how to grade the coins you're buying, you'll do better overall cracking them out, and you won't have to pay the crossover tax.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Maybe I wasn't clear enough in that you lose the CAC sticker if it crosses. Nothing happens if they send it back because it didn't cross.
Are you saying PCGS is not acknowledging PL coins other than Morgan dollars?
I have decided to only buy PCGS and not try to cross from NGC.
The CAC sticker is not going to have any weight with PCGS on a crossover. I have crossed NGC with the sticker and have had coins that did not cross. PCGS has stronger standards on PL and DMPL mirrors than NGC. The good news is that CAC also has strong standards on PL and DMPL mirrors. Clear off any scratches on the holders with PlastX, so the coin can be viewed without distractions. Send the coins in to cross at grade. If they do not cross, PCGS will return coin in holder. Take photos of the coins before submitting, if the coins cross, send photos and coin in PCGS holder to CAC for new sticker.
Even though coins have grades, designations and stickers ... occasionally the coins change while in the holder. What do the coins look like today?
Just crossed 4 for 4 NGC's to PCGS. Two had the CAC sticker. They were 3 - MS67+'s and 1 - MS67.
Wow! Congrats on that. I would love to see pics. I may have a chance to grab some from the bank tomorrow and post some photos this weekend
They didn't used to. When they started the PL designation on other coins, I sent that one in to see if they'd cross it. At the time, there was no frame of reference for what they'd accept as a PL non-Morgan, so there was no way I was going to crack it out. Apparently they didn't think it was PL enough even though CAC did.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I'm > @messydesk said:
I'm seeing a few coins that appear to be PL, and are mentioned as existing in reference materials, that are not labeled as such. They did not appear PL in their for sale photos. Any suggestions?