Thanks anyway
coolstanley
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A Rose will always be a Rose!
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coolstanley
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That looks like a White Sox batter with Munson catching. Certainly does not look like Rose in a Reds uniform, to me. Interesting that they identified it as such.
I agree with @countdougIas
That is Bill Melton.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
I believe it is actually Ken Henderson. Melton was a right-handed batter.
Apparently, this card has a long history of misidentifying it as a Pete Rose card as you can see with BVG.
Melton experimented with switch hitting in 1975.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
1.2 ~ 1.3 million....
~the 20% commission will eat many good men alive...
PSA also has it listed as Pete Rose.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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Rose wasnt wearing that uniform in 1976 (or 1975).
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Hey grote 15,
could the catcher be Grote?
I still think it is #24 Ken Henderson.
The batter could be Ken Henderson, but he looks like he has a Terry Forster belly-tank...for a second I thought it might be Tommy Hutton from the Phil's but his arms are more like Luzinski.
In a way I'm leaning more towards Bill Melton.
Or did Nabisco decide to make us crazy thinking about this one.
Henderson or Melton??????????????
I was thinking Munson, actually, but not sure.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Or could the catcher be Johnny Wockenfuss from the Tigers?
I think my final answer is Bill Melton; just going by their forearms...
I say Melton also.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The jersey looks like there is a number preceding the 4.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Melton wore #14, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
To answer the OP crazy market just start is at 29.99 and watch it go. Its Ken Henderson and that card is a well known uncorrected error card of Rose. 40 plus years and its on every checklist as Rose even though it is not Rose.
Peruse when you desire. He will answer any questions you ask. Over the years he's purchased from me tons of times.
https://4192cards.com
Thanks for the info.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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Here's more info and proof that it's NOT Rose:
http://boblemke.blogspot.com/2015/10/a-rose-is-not-always-rose-1976-sugar.html
I tried to post this earlier but it got caught in the approval-needed abyss
I would have to disagree with the writer of this article. I dont think the player looks like Ken Henderson.
In the 70's, the Reds had the same color spring training uniforms as the player pictured on the card. So imo, the player on the card could be Rose if that picture was taken in spring training. The picture below is from a SI issue from 1975.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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Reds uniform doesn't use a belt.
Yeah...no...that is not the same uniform. The batter is wearing a belt. The Reds uniforms were sans-a-belt unis. The Reds also had the name on the back, which the White Sox did not. (You can suggest airbrushing there, if you like.) The number that is visible on the player on the card appears to have a white outline. The Reds unis do not outline the number. Also, not the same color of uniform, at all. It is clearly a 70s White Sox era uni.
You can say that it may not be Ken Henderson, but it is definitely NOT Pete Rose. Just a glance should tell you that.
Also, that's Thurm catching with the orange kneepads. As stated in the article, that's an American League umpire with the balloon chest protector, as National League umps had the under the shirt chest protector. I had never seen this card before in my life, and I could tell right away that identifying it as Rose was a mistake.
American league teams play against National league teams in spring training.
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Here's the card in question:
Compare the batter's uniform, to the uniforms of the Reds' pitchers on the SI cover:
Batter's uniform has a belt / the Reds' pitchers do not.
There is red piping down the sides of the legs on the batter's uniform / The Reds' pitchers' uniforms do not have red piping.
Another clue:
The Reds were "Old School" about a few things, including not allowing facial hair.
If you look at the Reds pitchers on the SI cover, notice how they wore their stirrups down low.
Now, look at the batter on the card, with his stirrups up high. IIRC, the Reds always wore their stirrups down low, as shown on the SI cover.
Conclusion:
The batter is clearly, not wearing a Reds uniform, so it cannot possibly be Pete Rose.
Steve
>
The stirrups look high in these pictures.
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I must have read this years ago as I knew I remember this card being Ken Henderson.
I am pretty sure this is the first time in my collecting history where I knew something 70's baseball cards that Grote did not. Time to retire on a high note!
And also belts
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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Yes, LOL! I thought Melton as he was also #14 but Henderson wearing #24 makes sense, too. One thing is for certain, it's certainly not Rose or a Red no matter how many photos the OP posts
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
One things for certain, no one yet has proven who the player is. We all have our opinions. PSA and Beckett says its Pete Rose
These are Sugar daddy cards. No one knows what year the actual picture was taken.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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Hey grote15,
Awesome Research!
The card is from the early-mid 1970s. At least two of the pictures you posted are from 1986 or later (Barry Larkin being in the first two pictures).
Steve
Also, in all these pictures, NOT ONE of them shows any Reds wearing BLUE uniforms (as the batter in the questioned card is wearing. The SI cover shows the Reds wearing their road GREY's. They are NOT BLUE!
Steve
One other thing to note:
NO WHERE on the card itself, does it mention anything about who the players are on the front. In fact, the back of the card only mentions the 1974 World Series between the A's and Dodgers.
The Standard Catalog in both 2005 and 2007 (the only two volumes I still own), both say it is Pete Rose. The Standard Catalog was edited until 2007 by Bob Lemke. As posted above, Lemke himself acknowledged the mistake, and admitted never getting around to correcting it.
As we know from other instances, the Standard Catalog is where the TPG's go to to determine what a card is. So, if the Standard Catalog (as Bob Lemke admitted) is incorrect, and the card is not Pete Rose, then there is no basis for the TPG's to say it is.
Steve
They look blue in the photo. Just as the picture on the card looks like it could be grey or blue.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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The ONLY thing that even suggests this being Rose is the number 4. Nothing else points to that identification. The player doesn't even look like Rose, other than being white. Besides all the other uniform inconsistencies, I'm not sure the font of the 4 matches the Reds uniform font. If Rose's name has indeed been airbrushed off of the uniform, the uniform numbers would still be placed lower on the back than it is. I'm fairly certain the number preceding the 4 is NOT a 1. There are soooo many clues that rule out this being Rose that I'm shocked that it was ever identified as such.
As I've stated plainly. This is the first time that I've ever seen this card. I was unaware of the controversy or that it was already known as a misidentification...and I could tell right away that it's certainly not Rose.
You don't have to convince me, though, that it's Rose...only the next sucker that buys this card thinking it is indeed Rose.
during that time period the Reds didn't allow players to wear anything other than black cleats (other than All Star Games); as opposed to the White Sox who had a contract with Adidas and virtually every player wore those red shoes
IMF
I'm a big fan of trading card database (https://www.tcdb.com), but don't even see it there (interestingly, some other 'sugar daddy's' are if you search under baseball and misc sports)
Always find it strange when someone posts a card requesting knowledge, posters with knowledge provide solid intel, OP then argues with them from a position of ignorance about that intel.
Fascinating human behaviour.
Double post.
In defense of the OP, he did not ask about whether people thought it was really Pete Rose.
It makes perfect sense, he has possession of a card he wants to be a rare Pete Rose item to sell at a high price and doesn’t want to hear that it is actually Ken Henderson that will be hard to sell at a low price.
Rose would be shorter/thicker > @countdouglas said:
Yep not him. Rose is short and stocky, with much bigger legs. His swing also looks different.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
LOL according to some so called experts on here its not Ken Henderson neither. I don't really care who the mystery man is. As long as PSA and Beckett says its Pete Rose on the label, I'm happy.
It was a mistake in the first place, asking a simple question about a BVG card on a Beckett bashing forum.
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So, in other words, you are perfectly ok with perpetuating a lie.
Steve
Just not seem to resemble a Rose follow through at bat. IIRC he always started his AB from a crouching position. This depicted follow through seems off in that regard. But I've been wrong before.
Why did you change the title of the tread and edit out the first post? lol
This thread could have been really helpful preventing people from making the mistake of buying a Ken Henderson Sugar Daddy in a Pete Rose labeled PSA/BVG case.
SWEET!! According to you its a 1976 GEM MINT Thurman Munson card.
Not too shabby
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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