New hammered Elizabeth I Sixpence!
SiriusBlack
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I picked this up raw at Long Beach. I’m really happy with it, but………
I made my first blunder too. Came back AU Details, cleaned. I’m still happy with it and love the look and toning, but I stepped outside my wheelhouse and took a chance without knowing a great deal about these so I didn’t really understand what to look for. Ah well, pay to learn as they say sometimes! Again, I’m still happy to own it, and love the look. To be honest I had a little nagging in the back of my head that the obverse portrait area looked a little to shiny. I should have trusted my judgement, or at least, bought it realizing that yes it will be details and that’s ok, instead of hoping for a straight grade.
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
Comments
It is a cool piece of history!
What’s not to like?
@Yorkshireman I agree! I’m going to continue looking for hammered coins from the English monarchs I think. I have one other. Seems like a fun thing to try and I really enjoy reading up on the history of them as I find coins.
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
Generally all hammered coins are cleaned to some extent, as they come from the ground covered in dirt. Sometimes TPGs are harder on these coins, sometimes they’re easier. Your coin looks nice despite the cleaning, it has retoned decently. I’m not sure the AU details holder adds any value, so unless you want your coins in a certain slab, I’d probably just crack it out and enjoy it raw, like a good hammered coin should be
I agree with @Nap I think the majority of coins older than 1900 have been in a more appropriate term been conserved to some degree. The outliers are well preserved hoards, accumulations like bags of Morgan Dollars. I mean really, a nearly 500 year old piece of silver would likely be black if it hadn't! I think if the telltale hairlines of a more serious cleaning aren't present you got screwed!
I think that a lot of the reason for the "cleaned" opinion is in front of Elizabeth's forehead. I think I see cleaning lines there.
I have two Elizabeth I six pence. PCGS graded this one AU-55. There is an overdate, 1600 over 1590.
This one is raw. My grade is AU-50
And here's one that was struck on a screw press. It's called a milled six pence. This experiment failed, because the maker could not get the tools to do his job after a round of The Plague (sound familiar?). His costs went up and his production went down,. Ultimately he was fired. Subsequently he got caught making counterfeits and was hanged.
The coin looks great. I wouldn't be too concerned about the minor cleaning ... we are not talking about 1881-S Morgan Dollars here.
Really nice coin. I agree it doesn’t make sense to have it in a details slab when most hammered coins have been cleaned. The portrait is good for one of these.
Agree. Nice coin and hard to get too upset about the details grade. It has been cleaned but at least has toned somewhat again.
My current "Box of 20"
Here's some dealers you might enjoy checking out.
Coins Of Britain - Lloyd Bennett He's a very honest dealer
AMR Coins
Hammered British Coins LTD
CNG Coins
Baldwin's Coins
I have an Elizabeth Sixpence dated 1561 and bought it several years ago for this reason:
England Silver Sixpence 1561 Elizabeth I
Silver, 27 mm, 2.75 gm
Struck Tower Mint, Downward Arrow (a "pheon") mintmark, above the Queen's head
Obverse: Crowned bust of Elizabeth facing left with a rose behind her head
ELIZABETH D G ANG FR ET HI REGINA followed by a downward arrow mintmark
(Elizabeth by the Grace of God, England, France and Ireland, Queen)
Reverse: Shield with arms (lions and fleurs-de-lis) and long cross behind
POSVI DEV ADIVTOREM MEV (I have made God my Helper)
The English pirate Sir Francis Drake supposedly landed on the coast of Northern California in 1579 and supposedly left a brass plate with an inscription claiming the land for England and Queen Elizabeth along with an Elizabeth sixpence.
In 1936 a hiker found a brass plate and brought it to a Professor Bolton of the University of California at Berkeley. Bolton was convinced that the plate was left by Drake and convinced some friends to buy it from Shinn for $3,000, a large amount at the time. Bolton had the plate authenticated by metal experts and for years it was displayed as supposedly proof of Drake's landing. Copies were given to dignitaries, including England's current Queen Elizabeth.
The infamous Drake "Plate of Brasse", on display at the Bancroft Library
Some had doubts about the plate's authenticity from the start, and in the 1970's with better analysis techniques, it was conclusively determined to be a manufactured modern-made hoax.
A historian published an article in 2002 with the details, the plate was manufactured by three members of a historical club, E Clampus Vitus (ECV), who wanted to play a joke on Professor Bolton.
My father brought me to the Bancroft Library in the 1950's and I remember seeing the plate then in a display case in the lobby.
The plate is still there but now with an explanation of the hoax and a copy of an E Clampus Vitus magazine.
E Clampus Vitus magazine
I just had to have an Elizabeth sixpence.
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
Here's one I picked up a few years ago.
Thanks everyone for the responses! It is encouraging that everyone seems to think it's a decent coin based on photos at least. We'll call it a learning moment. As I said, I still like the coin so I'm not super bothered by it, I'd just rather know ahead of time what I'm getting in to, and I feel like now I've got a little bit more understanding of what to look for as I continue in my collecting.
@WillieBoyd2 I'd never heard of that story and I'm here in California. Thanks for sharing!
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
One thing you need to remember is that a lot of ancient and foreign collectors are not as fussy about slabs as American collectors. The fact that your coin is raw, if you decide to crack it out, is nearly as important as it is for an American coin. When a coin of this age, that was made to circulate, is in high grade and has no issues, it's worth a premium. The others always find a market.
Although the OP coin is a nice one, I don't get the point at having it slabbed
Mine is raw and will remain so
I also purchased one recently, not quite the detail that yours has, but I still like it. Also picked up a Henry VII groat. I agree completely with you re raw vs getting these graded. Thx for sharing
If you are going to collect hammered cons, it is better that you ignore any thoughts of slabbing and operate a 2 point grading system -- acceptable and unacceptable. This has served me well over the years as it means I don't get hung up about the opinion of others.
Most hammered coins have been cleaned at some point because as has been pointed out above, many would be black unless they have been in an oxygen deficient atmosphere for most of the time. Many hammered coins are bent, have scuffs and other marks because they were excavated at some point in time. Don't worry about it. If you like it, go with it.
As for examples of acceptable coins. First up an Elizabeth I sixpence, followed by an Edward IV halfpenny. The first is acceptable because it is a nice coin. The second is acceptable because it is a nice coin as you will struggle to find another - I'm not aware of any. If I worried about a coin only having a details grade; with it being cracked and bent, not mention a few pits in the field, I would be prohibited from collecting things like this and my collection would be the poorer for it!
For an example of an unacceptable coin, this Elizabeth I sixpence ticks the box nicely.
Why? Because it's a modern cast copy. Looks good, but is about 10% light, the surfaces are a little porous from casting bubbles and the flan is thicker than it should be to get the weight closer to the required value. I suspect the people responsible for it would have struggled to get the thickness right in any case. So you do need to have some understanding of the subject and a few basic references such as the normal weight range, thickness of flan, lettering style etc., but don't let the slab tail wag the coin dog.
Obviously condition relative to it's peers comes into play, but unless you are looking to buy the best I would go with your gut feeling of whether it has appeal or not.
I like it and I would enjoy it more out the details holder if it were mine.
Edward IV coins are a bear to find. The problem was his coins were too heavy for all but a couple of years of his reign. Many were shipped to the continent and melted. His “light” coins were only issued for a couple years. That’s why I bought a gold noble to fill his spot in my collection. If you have to pay a high price, you should at least get a nice coin.