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Is this an outrageous ebay message?

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  • COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2022 1:25AM

    Given the thread on the BST forum, I think I should post the full text of the only communication I received from the buyer:

    "Dear sir,
    "I purchased the Daniel Carr token which arrived yesterday, and I was so happy to get it. However, as I am sure you are most likely aware the token was damaged on the 6 ‘o’clock obverse edge which is pretty disappointing- please see photos

    "Would you be willing to provide some partial refund or accept a return? Paying top cost for it should have been without any significant injury - at this point it cannot even be graded (ANACS grades Dan Carr coins but not with damage it will be a details no-grade) - this was the feedback they provided to me.

    "Prior to posting any review I just wanted to see if this is something we can first resolve. Would you be willing to refund 100 dollars?"


    ===========

    As many suggested, I reported this to ebay. And blocked the buyer.

    Then later, I took MasonG's advice and sent this reply: "I'm sorry you're not happy with the item. You are welcome to return it for a refund."

    Surprisingly, when I checked my ebay messages the next day, I couldn't find the reply I'd sent. It was gone, poof, vanished. I guess ebay can erase messages; or maybe it got blocked, so there was no record of it successfully sent.

    Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.

  • 0ronron0ronron Posts: 248 ✭✭✭

    I believe once you block someone on ebay you cannot communicate with them unless you unblock them.

    Thank you, Heavenly Father, for first loving us.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,868 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,868 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @COCollector said:
    Given the thread on the BST forum, I think I should post the full text of the only communication I received from the buyer:

    "Dear sir,
    "I purchased the Daniel Carr token which arrived yesterday, and I was so happy to get it. However, as I am sure you are most likely aware the token was damaged on the 6 ‘o’clock obverse edge which is pretty disappointing- please see photos

    "Would you be willing to provide some partial refund or accept a return? Paying top cost for it should have been without any significant injury - at this point it cannot even be graded (ANACS grades Dan Carr coins but not with damage it will be a details no-grade) - this was the feedback they provided to me.

    "Prior to posting any review I just wanted to see if this is something we can first resolve. Would you be willing to refund 100 dollars?"


    ===========

    As many suggested, I reported this to ebay. And blocked the buyer.

    Then later, I took MasonG's advice and sent this reply: "I'm sorry you're not happy with the item. You are welcome to return it for a refund."

    Surprisingly, when I checked my ebay messages the next day, I couldn't find the reply I'd sent. It was gone, poof, vanished. I guess ebay can erase messages; or maybe it got blocked, so there was no record of it successfully sent.

    Buyer gets a generic response about damage from the TPG and then applies it to your coin which has striking anomolies. :/

  • COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    I've always believed that when someone "buys" a coin and then offers it around for sale that any return period has automatically ended. I don't think I am alone in that thought process, though ebay rules may not agree with me.

    .
    Agreed.

    Otherwise, I'm beginning to think it works like a scam:

    -- The "buyer" immediately complains about the coin, setting up a partial refund extortion or a 30-day return.

    -- If the extortion doesn't work, the "buyer" has nearly 30 days to resell for profit. If it doesn't resell, the "buyer" returns the coin.

    In essence, the "buyer" creates a no-risk no-cost inventory for himself.

    And the original seller unknowingly takes all the risk.

    Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @COCollector said:

    @TomB said:
    I've always believed that when someone "buys" a coin and then offers it around for sale that any return period has automatically ended. I don't think I am alone in that thought process, though ebay rules may not agree with me.

    .
    Agreed.

    Otherwise, I'm beginning to think it works like a scam:

    -- The "buyer" immediately complains about the coin, setting up a partial refund extortion or a 30-day return.

    -- If the extortion doesn't work, the "buyer" has nearly 30 days to resell for profit. If it doesn't resell, the "buyer" returns the coin.

    In essence, the "buyer" creates a no-risk no-cost inventory for himself.

    And the original seller unknowingly takes all the risk.

    .

    true and while i am not into blocking peeople unless necessary, the closer to the return deadline, the higher the odds i will block someone, depending on the issue. i auto block no communication auto return people. they are rare but a heads-up is nice. i had to go through a mild nightmare to be able to STOP these ebay auto returns (a software change on their end) so that it wouldn't generate labels automatically since i use an external shipping discount site. (non-numismatic)

    i've forgone even any seller discount levels and have anything of decent value on 2 weeks still, until they FORCE me to switch. (which seems it is close) 2 weeks is bad enough, 30 is just madness and 60, someone needs slapped with a carp. (maybe some electronics used/refurb products aside).

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since no one will call him out...although I'm sure he's watching this! @Che_Grapes

  • COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @JBK said:

    @COCollector said:
    Given the thread on the BST forum, I think I should post the full text of the only communication I received from the buyer:

    "Dear sir,
    "I purchased the Daniel Carr token which arrived yesterday, and I was so happy to get it. However, as I am sure you are most likely aware the token was damaged on the 6 ‘o’clock obverse edge which is pretty disappointing- please see photos

    "Would you be willing to provide some partial refund or accept a return? Paying top cost for it should have been without any significant injury - at this point it cannot even be graded (ANACS grades Dan Carr coins but not with damage it will be a details no-grade) - this was the feedback they provided to me.

    "Prior to posting any review I just wanted to see if this is something we can first resolve. Would you be willing to refund 100 dollars?"


    ===========

    As many suggested, I reported this to ebay. And blocked the buyer.

    Then later, I took MasonG's advice and sent this reply: "I'm sorry you're not happy with the item. You are welcome to return it for a refund."

    Surprisingly, when I checked my ebay messages the next day, I couldn't find the reply I'd sent. It was gone, poof, vanished. I guess ebay can erase messages; or maybe it got blocked, so there was no record of it successfully sent.

    Buyer gets a generic response about damage from the TPG and then applies it to your coin which has striking anomolies. :/

    The small defects seen in the photo are typical of this particular issue. The planchets will always have some small irregularities right near the edge, as punched. Normally, that sort of thing does not show (and I endeavor to not have this happen). But due to the large diameter the striking forces that I applied were not too far from the maximum limit. If the buyer were to return that one and buy a different one, there is no guarantee that the replacement would be better than the first one.

    Dan, thank you for your post. It's a LOT more helpful than you might imagine.

    Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @COCollector said:

    @TomB said:
    I've always believed that when someone "buys" a coin and then offers it around for sale that any return period has automatically ended. I don't think I am alone in that thought process, though ebay rules may not agree with me.

    .
    Agreed.

    Otherwise, I'm beginning to think it works like a scam:

    -- The "buyer" immediately complains about the coin, setting up a partial refund extortion or a 30-day return.

    -- If the extortion doesn't work, the "buyer" has nearly 30 days to resell for profit. If it doesn't resell, the "buyer" returns the coin.

    In essence, the "buyer" creates a no-risk no-cost inventory for himself.

    And the original seller unknowingly takes all the risk.

    It's also possible they are just trying to get rid of an item they dislike and you weren't forthcoming.

    If you had a "no return" coin with a defect that you couldn't stop staring at, would you put it in your permanent collection or try to sell it?

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,868 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Atcarroll said:
    Wow. If the buyer genuinely thought it wouldn't straight grade, it would be scumbaggy to list it for sale or trade without mentioning the defect, and if the buyer thought it was good enough to list without mentioning any defects, it would be scumbaggy to try to get a partial refund. Or am i missing something?

    No, you're not missing something. Scumbaggy it is, absent a really good excuse. ;)

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    If you had a "no return" coin with a defect that you couldn't stop staring at, would you put it in your permanent collection or try to sell it?

    If you had a "no return" coin with a defect that you couldn't stop staring at, would you put it in your permanent collection or try to sell it without disclosing the defect you can't stop staring at?

    Asking for a friend... ;)

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,902 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On the BBL ;)

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    If you had a "no return" coin with a defect that you couldn't stop staring at, would you put it in your permanent collection or try to sell it?

    If you had a "no return" coin with a defect that you couldn't stop staring at, would you put it in your permanent collection or try to sell it without disclosing the defect you can't stop staring at?

    Asking for a friend... ;)

    That's a slightly different issue than the one I was addressing. They were suggesting that the fact that he was trying to sell it while also trying to get ba discount or refund indicated a scam. To me, it just proves that he dislikes the coin.

    But, yes, he should disclose the "defect".

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2022 1:35PM

    @jmlanzaf said:
    They were suggesting that the fact that he was trying to sell it while also trying to get ba discount or refund indicated a scam.

    If someone is trying to get a discount or refund, he should probably resolve those issues before offering it for sale himself. IMO, anyway.

  • COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2022 2:05PM

    Update: Annoyingly, this morning the buyer posted feedback under "Left for others":
    https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/grape_6078?filter=feedback_page:All&_trksid=p2545226.m2531.l4585

    To document the timeline:
    -- order placed Fri 3/10
    -- order shipped Fri 3/10
    -- order delivered Mon 3/14
    -- complaint received by me Tues 3/15 morning
    -- I reported & blocked him Tues 3/15 evening
    -- Buyer posted WTT on BST forum Wed 3/16 evening
    -- Buyer posted his review Fri 3/18 morning, stating "seller never wrote me back after 5 business days so I’m forced to write this review"

    So now I'm forced to craft yet another lengthy response to this mess. Very cathartic. Maybe I'll even post this one.

    Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    They were suggesting that the fact that he was trying to sell it while also trying to get ba discount or refund indicated a scam.

    If someone is trying to get a discount or refund, he should probably resolve those issues before offering it for sale himself. IMO, anyway.

    Maybe. But I'm not clear on where his request was. The OP was not offering either return or refund at one point.

    I'm not defending or attacking anyone here. I have no horse in this race. But people are making a lot of accusations. To me, it's just a regrettable transaction.

    It's also possible that the buyer accepted the verdict of this thread that it is not a defect and is moving on.

    I do wonder how this thread reads if the buyer posted first.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,392 ✭✭✭✭✭

    from the picture it looks like a die crack to me, making it extremely rare.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,868 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2022 2:10PM

    @COCollector said:
    Update: Annoyingly, this morning the buyer posted feedback under "Left for others":
    https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/grape_6078?filter=feedback_page:All&_trksid=p2545226.m2531.l4585

    To document the timeline:
    -- order placed Fri 3/10
    -- order shipped Fri 3/10
    -- order delivered Mon 3/14
    -- complaint received by me Tues 3/15 morning
    -- I reported & blocked him Tues 3/15 evening
    -- Buyer posted WTT on BST forum Wed 3/16 evening
    -- Buyer posted his review Fri 3/18 morning, stating "seller never wrote me back after 5 business days so I’m forced to write this review"

    So now I'm forced to craft yet another lengthy response to this mess. Very cathartic. Maybe I'll even post this one.

    I'm confused. You never offered him a refund?

    In any case, once you block him he can't message you anymore.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,678 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Buys from canyon city coin

    Pcgs pops a coin as details but still leaves positive feedback

    Sorry to increase your frustration here. This buyer no matter who it is just is not versed in buying coins off ebay

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2022 3:10PM

    @jmlanzaf said:
    It's also possible that the buyer accepted the verdict of this thread that it is not a defect and is moving on.

    According to the OP, the buyer claimed the item was damaged. An "as struck" defect is not the same thing as damage. IMO, of course.

    edited to add... Based on the feedback the seller received, the buyer does claim "damage".

  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,203 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mint error? lol

  • This content has been removed.
  • COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @COCollector said:
    Update: Annoyingly, this morning the buyer posted feedback under "Left for others":
    https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/grape_6078?filter=feedback_page:All&_trksid=p2545226.m2531.l4585

    To document the timeline:
    -- order placed Fri 3/10
    -- order shipped Fri 3/10
    -- order delivered Mon 3/14
    -- complaint received by me Tues 3/15 morning
    -- I reported & blocked him Tues 3/15 evening
    -- Buyer posted WTT on BST forum Wed 3/16 evening
    -- Buyer posted his review Fri 3/18 morning, stating "seller never wrote me back after 5 business days so I’m forced to write this review"

    So now I'm forced to craft yet another lengthy response to this mess. Very cathartic. Maybe I'll even post this one.

    I'm confused. You never offered him a refund?

    In any case, once you block him he can't message you anymore.

    .
    I distinctly remember sending a Reply message offering return & refund. I even looked at it again after sending it.

    But when I looked for it the next day, the message was gone.

    This was my first time blocking someone during a dispute... late-night fuzzy brain... IIRC I thought we could still exchange messages but he would be blocked from future purchases.

    Lesson learned.

    Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,902 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "IIRC I thought we could still exchange messages but he would be blocked from future purchases."

    This is correct, both parties can still message about the sold item but the buyer will be blocked from future purchases.
    Depending on your block settings a blocked buyer can still contact you.
    If you go to Buyer Management and scroll down you will see a toggle for "Don't allow blocked buyers to contact me"

  • COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    "IIRC I thought we could still exchange messages but he would be blocked from future purchases."

    This is correct, both parties can still message about the sold item but the buyer will be blocked from future purchases.
    Depending on your block settings a blocked buyer can still contact you.
    If you go to Buyer Management and scroll down you will see a toggle for "Don't allow blocked buyers to contact me"

    Thank you, that's helpful.

    Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,217 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On a side note: what the heck is this new eBay "feedback left by others"? The above neutral feedback isn't on the OP's "As a Seller" feedback. This is the first I've seen this, and I am curious what it means and who sees it.

    peacockcoins

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:
    On a side note: what the heck is this new eBay "feedback left by others"? The above neutral feedback isn't on the OP's "As a Seller" feedback. This is the first I've seen this, and I am curious what it means and who sees it.

    I think he meant "Left for others" and that has been available for several years.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,570 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No one here is asking the real questions: Since when could you upload videos to eBay?? I wish more sellers did that.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,609 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    No one here is asking the real questions: Since when could you upload videos to eBay?? I wish more sellers did that.

    I believe that this is a fairly new and recent thing that they added.

    Collector
    75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kliao said:

    @ChrisH821 said:
    No one here is asking the real questions: Since when could you upload videos to eBay?? I wish more sellers did that.

    I believe that this is a fairly new and recent thing that they added.

    Yes, they added it about 6 weeks ago.

  • COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    No one here is asking the real questions: Since when could you upload videos to eBay?? I wish more sellers did that.

    .
    I think it's a new ebay feature. I've uploaded several videos in the past month or so.

    It's just as easy as uploading photos. But only one video per listing.

    And it's limited to max of ~1 minute. No problem, I think a 25 - 30 second video is about right for a coin.

    Downside: For now, it takes a day or two before the video goes live in the listing. I'm guessing it's just a quick check that the video plays properly, not sideways or upside down.

    Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    No one here is asking the real questions: Since when could you upload videos to eBay?? I wish more sellers did that.

    eBay added a new video feature recently but there was a way to post videos before. I had a how to thread last year but no one seemed interested.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1059371/did-you-know-that-its-possible-to-add-a-video-in-your-ebay-listing

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Atcarroll said:
    Wow. If the buyer genuinely thought it wouldn't straight grade, it would be scumbaggy to list it for sale or trade without mentioning the defect, and if the buyer thought it was good enough to list without mentioning any defects, it would be scumbaggy to try to get a partial refund. Or am i missing something?

    It’s just your garden variety Sleazebay con artist/parasite.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @Atcarroll said:
    Wow. If the buyer genuinely thought it wouldn't straight grade, it would be scumbaggy to list it for sale or trade without mentioning the defect, and if the buyer thought it was good enough to list without mentioning any defects, it would be scumbaggy to try to get a partial refund. Or am i missing something?

    It’s just your garden variety Sleazebay con artist/parasite.

    Ummm....it's apparently a member of THIS forum.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @Atcarroll said:
    Wow. If the buyer genuinely thought it wouldn't straight grade, it would be scumbaggy to list it for sale or trade without mentioning the defect, and if the buyer thought it was good enough to list without mentioning any defects, it would be scumbaggy to try to get a partial refund. Or am i missing something?

    It’s just your garden variety Sleazebay con artist/parasite.

    Ummm....it's apparently a member of THIS forum.

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @Atcarroll said:
    Wow. If the buyer genuinely thought it wouldn't straight grade, it would be scumbaggy to list it for sale or trade without mentioning the defect, and if the buyer thought it was good enough to list without mentioning any defects, it would be scumbaggy to try to get a partial refund. Or am i missing something?

    It’s just your garden variety Sleazebay con artist/parasite.

    Ummm....it's apparently a member of THIS forum.

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @Atcarroll said:
    Wow. If the buyer genuinely thought it wouldn't straight grade, it would be scumbaggy to list it for sale or trade without mentioning the defect, and if the buyer thought it was good enough to list without mentioning any defects, it would be scumbaggy to try to get a partial refund. Or am i missing something?

    It’s just your garden variety Sleazebay con artist/parasite.

    Ummm....it's apparently a member of THIS forum.

    Who remains silent!

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,245 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    I've always believed that when someone "buys" a coin and then offers it around for sale that any return period has automatically ended. I don't think I am alone in that thought process, though ebay rules may not agree with me.

    Correct on both counts. Every time I > @braddick said:

    On a side note: what the heck is this new eBay "feedback left by others"? The above neutral feedback isn't on the OP's "As a Seller" feedback. This is the first I've seen this, and I am curious what it means and who sees it.

    On every feedback profile that isn’t private you can see what feedback the user has left. If someone asks me a question that seems like it could be trouble or starts something with a purchase that doesn’t sit right, it’s my first task because then I can get a feel for who I’m dealing with. I’ve blocked people for asking simple questions because I’ve been led to see they’ve left a lot of negatives and I can only imagine are problem buyers. This display option has been available for a very long time.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭✭✭


    This was the one I actually wanted ... that was the main reason to sell the first one. Again, I would have disclosed the damage and sold at a loss ..

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,902 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "but actually because I purchased the wrong one"

    Sounds like we are getting to the core of what's going on.

    "I paid way over original price of 135"

    So you know the issue price and that they sell for more but you feel it was okay to offer $100?

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,902 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Che_Grapes You should contact ebay and revise your feedback.

  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @Che_Grapes said:
    I do want to sell it and if someone showed interest I would certainly disclose the damage...

    Why not disclose the damage in your original offer?

    You are right, I should have - and I didn’t disclose price either. But if there had been interest I would have sent pictures and gone from there.

    Meanwhile - I do note that the seller admits he knew about the damage (even provided his own photo) in the thread above, yet sold it to me without disclosing it on the eBay listing and with no refund policy! Just sayin!

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