Any guesses how much this Bank of San Francisco penny roll will go for?

mr1931S

S-mint Indian cent reverse seen on one end of the roll. Lincoln cent V D.B. seen on the other end of the offered roll.

ebay auction title: "Old Lincoln Wheat Cent Roll S-Mint & VDB Tail Ends! Bank of San Francisco Wrap!!"

DISCLAIMER: I am not affiliated in any way with the seller of this penny roll item nor do I have any financial interest in what the roll might fetch for the seller. I have no dog in this hunt, in other words. For educational purposes only.

jessewvu

For something that seems rolled in the last few weeks, I’m guessing way more than it should.

Martin

Easy. Buy it. Open it. Send it back. Not as described. No 22d on one end. Seller should be banned from ebay

Martin

mr1931S

30-day return privilege is offered. That means to me "can be returned for any reason or no reason at all." Of course, buyer who might return will have to do so at his or her expense.

mr1931S

The V D.B. does not NOT appear to me to be of the Philly issue 1909 V.D.B. penny.

mr1931S

@jessewvu said:
For something that seems rolled in the last few weeks, I’m guessing way more than it should.

Why do you think it seems rolled in the last few weeks?

tommy44

Where did this seller find all the rolls he has for sale? Look at their sold listings also. All positive feedback as a seller. What could go wrong?

Jimnight

Not for me.

ricko

Interesting.... Likely not any super treasures in there.... but a good starter roll probably. Feedback good it seems... Cheers, RickO

mr1931S

@ricko said:
Interesting.... Likely not any super treasures in there.... but a good starter roll probably. Feedback good it seems... Cheers, RickO

In my view, good starter roll determination would follow if I don't have to pay way too much for it. 100% feedback is a plus for sure.

jesbroken

The only problem with this auction is if the buyers overthink the situation. Most likely an 08 S IHC(looks to be a type 2 S) so as long as the bidders stay below the VG price for an 08 S IHC they shouldn't be in trouble. Now if the obverse is damaged then the winner has a 30 day return privilege, unless seller demands it be returned unopened which would negate any looks to see. People love to gamble, but when a roll(unsearched) in this day and time is advertized, it is usually false, but no way to police such things. So buyer beware. For 16 bids to already have been placed and only 3 days left I would imagine this roll would go in the $150 range and someone will lose. If it stays below $75 the winner may come out ok.
Jim

mr1931S

@jesbroken said:
The only problem with this auction is if the buyers overthink the situation. Most likely an 08 S IHC(looks to be a type 2 S) so as long as the bidders stay below the VG price for an 08 S IHC they shouldn't be in trouble. Now if the obverse is damaged then the winner has a 30 day return privilege, unless seller demands it be returned unopened which would negate any looks to see. People love to gamble, but when a roll(unsearched) in this day and time is advertized, it is usually false, but no way to police such things. So buyer beware. For 16 bids to already have been placed and only 3 days left I would imagine this roll would go in the $150 range and someone will lose. If it stays below $75 the winner may come out ok.
Jim

I would really be surprised if this roll went for $75 or less. And yes, the Indian cent end piece probably is a 1908-S, an authentic one. I once asked a seller why he himself doesn't just check the end coin with the V.D.B. showing for the holy grail for Lincoln cent collectors. He told me he can make more money selling the roll as a mystery roll than if he were to open the roll and check it himself. The conversation with him ended abruptly when I asked if I could return the roll, unopened by me of course, after in hand inspection of the V.D.B. showing on one of the roll's ends.

Jzyskowski1

Convenient end coins. Fishy. Just happens to have well known Enders.
It’s a good deal until its not 👍🏼
I think if it walks like a, talks like a , looks like a…. It’s probably a
questionable situation
Now cheap it would be a good starter roll but implied S MM with the vdb.
🙀🤨

Namvet69

The non-profit reference and the 22-D correction are suspect. Someone is trying too hard to make risk worthwhile. IMO. Peace Roy

mr1931S

When I see positive feedback given with the comment "Waste of money" it gives me pause. Reason could be that buyer gave positive because seller refunded buyer his money of the "waste of money" item with no problem.

Higashiyama

Isn’t the mint mark unusually far to the right? Is that a known variety?

Jzyskowski1

Let’s see what we’re talking about 👍🏼

mr1931S

@Higashiyama said:
Isn’t the mint mark unusually far to the right? Is that a known variety?

Indian cent experts care to comment?

Steven59

@mr1874 said:
The V D.B. does not NOT appear to me to be of the Philly issue 1909 V.D.B. penny.

It doesn't BUT have to look to see if he uses that picture in other of his roll auctions. Funny how he just happens to have all them rolls with a VDB reverse ender..............

mr1931S

@Steven59 said:

@mr1874 said:
The V D.B. does not NOT appear to me to be of the Philly issue 1909 V.D.B. penny.

It doesn't BUT have to look to see if he uses that picture in other of his roll auctions. Funny how he just happens to have all them rolls with a VDB reverse ender..............

Right. Seems to me that every now and then an auction for an old San Francisco bank penny roll would show a 1909-S Lincoln obverse on at least one of the ends.After all, 1909-S Lincolns without V.D.B. outnumber 1909-S Lincolns with V.D.B by over 7 to 2.

CaptHenway

Somebody should check his pictures to see if he is using the same paper wrappers over and over.

nwcoast

How much?
Very likely far too much!
The seller is selling them for a reason!

Oldhoopster

Rolls like this are all over ebay. Many are described as unsearched, but this guy went all out to imply this is an old roll without really saying it. Well done (he must have attended law school 😉) I would be very, very surprised if the seller didn't put this together himself.

You'll get 1908-S Indian (hopefully without a damaged obv), a 1909 VDB cent, and maybe some worn S mints, a couple low grade indians, and other assorted wheats.

davewesen

the seller knows what is inside because they most likely put the rolls together.

If the1908-S is not damaged on the obverse, it should be worth close to $50 by itself. A roll of wheats cents is another $4?

mr1931S

Lots of growth ahead for this roll. Up to almost $50 now with about 3 days left.

Off_Cent_er

I don't need to buy this rolls to know what is in it. One end is a 1908 S Indian cent probably details grade. the other end is a 1909 P VDB. The rest of the roll is 1930's-1950's wheats, maybe even a cruddy steel mixed in as well. Are people still falling for this scam?

mr1931S

@Oldhoopster said:
Rolls like this are all over ebay. Many are described as unsearched, but this guy went all out to imply this is an old roll without really saying it. Well done (he must have attended law school 😉) I would be very, very surprised if the seller didn't put this together himself.

You'll get 1908-S Indian (hopefully without a damaged obv), a 1909 VDB cent, and maybe some worn S mints, a couple low grade indians, and other assorted wheats.

I almost gave you an agree on your post here but that V D.B. doesn't look to me like from Philadelphia. What you think about the V D.B.? 2nd dot appears to be centered between the D and B. Doesn't the 2nd dot snuggle up closer to the D on the Philly 1909 V.D.B.?

jessewvu

@mr1874 said:

@jessewvu said:
For something that seems rolled in the last few weeks, I’m guessing way more than it should.

Why do you think it seems rolled in the last few weeks?

No wear at all anywhere, top left picture of roll shows impressions from a mechanical press roller that weren’t used on these, and most of these old rolls put an address/city of the rolls on them.

Now, do you want me to tell everything else this guy did wrong so he can fix it for the next time? 😜

Scuffing with some sandpaper could take at least 30 years off the roll.

mr1931S

That V.D.B. bothers me.The second dot is in the wrong place for it to be a 1909 Philly. The non presence of the first dot, the one that should appear after the 'V' also bothers me. Needless to say, I won't be bidding on this item. Seller has gone out of his way to showcase the funky V D.B. and that, in my opinion, is a major red flag.

Coinscratch

Aside from what everybody else has already said, what do you think? Do you think this guy is so busy he doesn't have time to open a roll possibly worth thousands? C'mon man! He is opening them and then reselling the crap to the sucker born every minute.
Like others have mentioned you have to look for the subtle hints to not be that sucker.
Side note, not all roll sellers are bad I recently had a 52 S Jeff grade MS67 pop 7/1. Was it an accident? Maybe.
Anyway, I have a list of sellers I won't buy from anymore - This one I never even tried.

derryb

it's not a coincidence that two teaser coins ended up on the ends of the roll. I'm throwing the BS flag

alaura22

This guy has 38 rolls with special coins on bothends?
Give me a break!
Wasn't born yesterday!

JimW

Fools and their money are soon parted

johnny9434

How sad with all them bids 😕

Coinscratch

@johnny9434 said:
How sad with all them bids 😕

Auctions have consequences

Hey look! I got a roll of coins with a possible $500 coin on the end, let me see if I can get 150 on eBay. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

robec

@mr1874 said:
The V D.B. does not NOT appear to me to be of the Philly issue 1909 V.D.B. penny.

Why do you think that?

mr1931S

@robec said:

@mr1874 said:
The V D.B. does not NOT appear to me to be of the Philly issue 1909 V.D.B. penny.

Why do you think that?

Like I said earlier, it seems to me the dot between the D and the B should be closer to the D to be from the Philly issue.

robec

@mr1874 said:

@robec said:

@mr1874 said:
The V D.B. does not NOT appear to me to be of the Philly issue 1909 V.D.B. penny.

Why do you think that?

Like I said earlier, it seems to me the dot between the D and the B should be closer to the D to be from the Philly issue.

The Philly 1909 VDB had both varieties, centered dot and the dot closer to the D.

Steven59

The seller really has to learn how to reclose those open ends better on the so called "Bank wrapped rolls".

BuffaloIronTail

@robec said:

@mr1874 said:

@robec said:

@mr1874 said:
The V D.B. does not NOT appear to me to be of the Philly issue 1909 V.D.B. penny.

Why do you think that?

Like I said earlier, it seems to me the dot between the D and the B should be closer to the D to be from the Philly issue.

The Philly 1909 VDB had both varieties, centered dot and the dot closer to the D.

Agreed. Take a look through 1909 VDB Cents on E-bay and you'll find both.

Pete

jmlanzaf

@Steven59 said:
The seller really has to learn how to reclose those open ends better on the so called "Bank wrapped rolls".

He's not reclosing them. He's the one who originally rolled them with a rolling machine.

rmpsrpms

I know a guy who sells these kind of rolls. Everything about the rolls is fake, including the wrappers. What he does is to see how much the roll sells for, and then he rolls it up with the same end coins, but puts different coins inside. If it sells for $50, he puts in relatively common stuff, plus maybe one nicer coin but in not so nice condition. $100 and he puts in a few nicer coins. $500 and the coins get pretty nice, but still having retail value of <25% of the selling price. With this strategy he keeps folks happy no matter the selling price, as his feedback suggests, but always makes money.

mr1931S

@BuffaloIronTail said:

@robec said:

@mr1874 said:

@robec said:

@mr1874 said:
The V D.B. does not NOT appear to me to be of the Philly issue 1909 V.D.B. penny.

Why do you think that?

Like I said earlier, it seems to me the dot between the D and the B should be closer to the D to be from the Philly issue.

The Philly 1909 VDB had both varieties, centered dot and the dot closer to the D.

Agreed. Take a look through 1909 VDB Cents on E-bay and you'll find both.

Pete

Okay. I learn something new every day. That first dot is missing. Wonder if it was deliberately removed.

Coinscratch

@rmpsrpms said:
I know a guy who sells these kind of rolls. Everything about the rolls is fake, including the wrappers. What he does is to see how much the roll sells for, and then he rolls it up with the same end coins, but puts different coins inside. If it sells for $50, he puts in relatively common stuff, plus maybe one nicer coin but in not so nice condition. $100 and he puts in a few nicer coins. $500 and the coins get pretty nice, but still having retail value of <25% of the selling price. With this strategy he keeps folks happy no matter the selling price, as his feedback suggests, but always makes money.

Interesting strategy, sea crustaceans have also learned to adapt over millions of years.

Steven59

Uh Oh - Is Mr1874 banking on the picture from the auction that this is actually a 1909-S VDB?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384755769332?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11010.m1951.l7534&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=9d1de17388a744c0bf740415ffc4e5dc&bu=43205272841&ut=RU&amp;

Steven59

$245.50 with 29 minutes to go..............

davewesen

look at the sellers current auctions and recently closed auctions - big range in what they are getting.

mr1931S

Uh Oh - Is Mr1874 banking on the picture from the auction that this is actually a 1909-S VDB?

I'm on the record as not participating as a bidder in this auction.The first dot missing is a big deal. Every genuine 1909-S V.D.B. that I've seen has a first dot, the one after the V. Even the whispering SVDB had a first dot. The third dot on it was weak but it was there. And the second dot is centered between the D and the B, like we are seeing with the roll end coin here. I learned from a member here that centered second dot is seen on 1909 V.D.B.

mr1931S

Kind of exciting watching this auction wind down isn't it? How much will the hammer be?

Steven59

@mr1874 said:
Kind of exciting watching this auction wind down isn't it? How much will the hammer be?

Indeed ...........but I'm thinking more how much a sucker will be caught..........

GOT ONE