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China Dollar sized coins and chop marks- does PCGS and NGC grade them?
coinkat
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I have not seen many chop marked China dollar sized coins...but then again I really have not gone out of my way to look for them.
Soooo... do these chop marked coins grade in a similar manner as US Trade Dollars. I suspect they do but I am not certain.
Any comments would be appreciated- Thanks
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I am not sure what you mean by grade in a similar manner as US Trade Dollars. Here is one from HA with chop
mark. It was sold for $1560 Jun 24, 2021.
This one the chop mark is bigger. It sold on Jun 24, 2021 for $2400 from HA.
Thanks for posting. Neither of these two received a straight grade followed by a chops designation. I have an 1874-s Trade dollar graded Au53 with chops on the label. Both these have damage instead of chops with a straight grade. So it would appear that chops on a Chines dollar size coin is considered damage
This is what I was looking for - thanks for posting the images
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Trade Dollars are the only coins get a straight designation while being damaged by chops. It's a PCGS thing and I think there's US Coins forum history there.
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Chop mark always graded details. In fact chop market coin is not popular in China. I used to has couple chop mark rare coin that I has to sell cheap because it is hard to sell
This is one of the chop mark coin I sold cheap. It is very nice looking coin
I am sort of curious as there seems to be what has the appearance of a double standard... unless one assumes that chops marks are just part of the landscape as to the intended purpose of an overseas trade coin.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Off the top of my head I will offer this opinion. PCGS is confident they can authenticate and straight grade a US host with chops and not lose too much money on their authenticity guarantee. PCGS is not confident they can authenticate and straight grade world coins with chops and not lose too much money on their authenticity guarantee.
They’re authenticating both regardless, details coins still get authenticated. The move to grade chopped Trade Dollars was done after lobbying from external parties with the view that it would be acceptable in the market.
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As others have stated, only chopmarked US Trade Dollars currently receive straight grades from PCGS (and then with the 'Chop Mark' designation, which includes a different PCGS number). World types with chops will receive a Details - Chop Mark designation assuming no other condition issues, but curiously all non-Trade Dollar US types will receive the Details - Damage designation for some reason, even when clearly chopmarked. NGC gives detail designations to all types.
Trade Dollars were basically issued for overseas trading in the Orient. Chopping was basically a component of that trade so straight grading after identifying the Trade Dollar coin as chopped instead of damaged seems fair and a true reflection of commerce/commercial use. Seems the British Trade Dollar should get the same consideration. Also, the Yen, 8 Reales and other coins deserve consideration to be straight graded with a chops designation. I have read that the 8 Reales traded at a premium to the Trade Dollar.
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I’ve had a lightly chopped Republic 8R straight graded at NGC. The caveat being the coin was unique and this was >10 years ago.
Edited to add: This is the coin to which I refer. I no longer own it, so I cannot get a better photo. But it is unique and is plated in Resplandores, I believe. I was the submitter to NGC, not any auction house.
The coin is strictly XF, so I believe NGC netted the coin down to account for the chops.
https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/2760535-001/35/
It's a tough call. The marks make sense in the historical context of several trade coins and likely rate better than generic damage even among collectors that don't prioritize chops, but literally hundreds of types are known with chopmarks; if a TPG were to straight grade other types with chops, the cutoff between types that are acceptable or not would be pretty arbitrary. Rare types like the VOC Ducaton and the Greenland Dollar that were struck for trade but which are today difficult to find would probably be discounted with chopmarks and a shift to straight grade them with chops would probably receive pushback. Plus, opening up "straight grades w/ chopmarks" would put the responsibility of determining what is and isn't a chop on the TPGs, while many collectors disagree on the definition and on the origin of specific marks.
Eh, I don't buy that line of thinking, personally. Shaving of coins was a "fair and a true reflection of commerce/commercial use" for some issues, so were bite marks, edge test cuts, etc... Chops are generic, non-attributable, unverifiable, impossible to date or authenticate. Most people petitioning for a straight grade on chopped coins have the same motivation as the guy who got the straight grade on TDs to fly - purely financial.
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