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Would you like PCGS to Straight-Grade more coins with Chop Marks?

ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 1, 2022 8:24AM in U.S. Coin Forum

So far, the only PCGS straight graded coins I've seen are US Trade Dollars, but there are many other coin types out there with chop marks!

Does PCGS straight grade any other coin with chop marks? If not, would you want them to?

Here are two posted on these forums:

1859-S Liberty Seated Dollar
Provenance: @JGnumismatics
Cert: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/84033235

1854 Liberty Seated Half Dollar
Provenance: @JasonGaming
Cert: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/39204983

Comments

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For consistency's sake yes, but they are rare and most likely not worth creating a whole new PCGS numbering system when for all practical effects a gen details grade is basically the same

  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Makes no difference to me.
    When I get a new chopmarked coin in a slab, it gets cracked out.
    I would probably change my tune if I ever had anything truly scarce 🤔

  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, definitely!

    Tom

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd be in favor of other coins with chopmarks getting a straight grade too.
    One thing that seems problematic is when a chopmarked coin has other issues but the details label only lists chopmark. In hand, it might be easier to tell that the coin is cleaned (or has another issue) but online it's not always easy. Now this is an issue with other coins that have multiple problems and only one is listed, but I'd like to see it corrected at least on chopmarked coins.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2022 9:07PM

    @U1chicago said:
    I'd be in favor of other coins with chopmarks getting a straight grade too.

    Let's hope PCGS can do it! :+1:

    One thing that seems problematic is when a chopmarked coin has other issues but the details label only lists chopmark. In hand, it might be easier to tell that the coin is cleaned (or has another issue) but online it's not always easy. Now this is an issue with other coins that have multiple problems and only one is listed, but I'd like to see it corrected at least on chopmarked coins.

    The good thing with US Trade Dollars where Chop Mark is not the reason for the Details grade, the decision reason is listed, such as the example below.

    Having all chop marked coins grade problem free would help with this.

    I love this coin :)

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins and that's what I'd like to see with other chopmarked coins too. Or it would at least be nice to see the other issue(s) listed like "XF Details - Cleaned, Chopped" (if chopped is the only issue, then it would be the only one listed and we would know there is nothing else wrong when shopping online).

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Chops are post-mint damage. In some cases done over a period of time and by different merchants. PMD is PMD.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2022 9:11PM

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    Chops are post-mint damage. In some cases done over a period of time and by different merchants. PMD is PMD.

    I consider chop marks to be commerce circulation as chop marks were part of conducting commerce with coins, which is their purpose.

    Wear can also be considered circulation "damage" as the surface of the coin is disturbed.

    To me, if one form of circulation (chop marks) is considered damage, then another form of circulation (wear) could also be damage o:)

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Consistency aside, the only reason I think it matters is that if a coin has damage other than a chop mark, it can appear problem-free if it’s in a “damaged—chop mark” holder. I’ve sent that many times with NGC trade dollars (they don’t straight grade chopped trade dollars) which, even when harshly cleaned, are marked only for their chop.

    Now to be fair, I also have a chopped trade dollar that got a straight grade at PCGS and is definitely cleaned. It’s a tough date and I knew it when I bought it so it doesn’t really matter to me, but I can imagine being disappointed if you think you’re getting a coin whose only “flaw” is a feature you’re buying, and then you find it has other issues.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    Chops are post-mint damage. In some cases done over a period of time and by different merchants. PMD is PMD.

    I consider chop marks to be commerce circulation as chop marks were part of conducting commerce with coins, which is their purpose.

    Wear can also be considered circulation "damage" as the surface of the coin is disturbed.

    To me, if one form of circulation (chop marks) is considered damage, then another form of circulation (wear) could also be damage o:)

    So were edge cuts, bite marks, breaking a coin into fractionals, etc... Where do you draw the line?

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2022 9:30PM

    It might appear that chop marked Trade Dollars receive a "straight grade",
    but they are under separate PCGS Coin numbers, so it's essentially a separate series,
    which is a pretty good approach.
    Example:
    https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1876-s-t-1-chop-mark/87043
    To extend this to other series could require a lot of extra work to create the separate PCGS Coin numbers.
    Unless people start collecting other series as chopped, it doesn't seem worth the effort.

    June 2021 thread:
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1059404/chopmarked-pcgs-submissions-us-and-world

  • vulcanizevulcanize Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2022 10:33PM

    Have a slabbed 1874-S trade dollar that I like because it is sort of unobstrusive on the whole, without defacing much unlike a few other coins. Plus it was cheaper by almost 200$ too.

    As Yosclimber has mentioned above, they have different PCGS # with 7036 for straight grades of the regular non-chopmarked 1874-S https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1874-s-t-1/7036 and with my chopmarked coin having a prefix of 8 and the PCGS # being 87036 https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1874-s-t-1-chop-mark/87036/53


  • DDRDDR Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would love to see PCGS straight grade other coins with chop marks. Although U.S. Trade Dollars are my first love, I have a lot of other chop marked coins, almost all raw, that I would send in to get graded and Trueviewed if I could get straight grades from PCGS.

  • ShaunBC5ShaunBC5 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ve never collected or bought anything chopped, so this is my first time really thinking about this topic, but…
    Trade dollars were intended for use elsewhere where chop marks are customary and other series were not (even though many found their way to those places and may have been sent intentionally for that purpose). I think of chops on a trade dollar as commerce wear, as stated above, but think of it more as an anomaly and somehow nicer than graffiti on other types.
    My mind is certain open to change on this, though.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2022 1:31AM

    @TwoKopeiki said:

    @Zoins said:

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    Chops are post-mint damage. In some cases done over a period of time and by different merchants. PMD is PMD.

    I consider chop marks to be commerce circulation as chop marks were part of conducting commerce with coins, which is their purpose.

    Wear can also be considered circulation "damage" as the surface of the coin is disturbed.

    To me, if one form of circulation (chop marks) is considered damage, then another form of circulation (wear) could also be damage o:)

    So were edge cuts, bite marks, breaking a coin into fractionals, etc... Where do you draw the line?

    It depends on collectability. Certainly chop marks are collectible as we've seen.

    And wherever the line is, it should cover breaking a coin into fractionals :)

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber said:
    It might appear that chop marked Trade Dollars receive a "straight grade",
    but they are under separate PCGS Coin numbers, so it's essentially a separate series,
    which is a pretty good approach.
    Example:
    https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1876-s-t-1-chop-mark/87043
    To extend this to other series could require a lot of extra work to create the separate PCGS Coin numbers.
    Unless people start collecting other series as chopped, it doesn't seem worth the effort.

    Good point!

    People are certainly collecting other coins with chop marks but there may not be enough of the coins to collect by date and mintmark.

    Perhaps a compromise to address the operational aspect of it is to certify them like how mint errors are certified. Mint errors get a straight grade but don't get a normal coin number or pop report listing.

    Great link! Love the eye candy!

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