The circulated Eutopia Dollar - a Goloid dream!

Zoins · January 30, 2022 8:04AM

Just ran across this circulated Eutopia dollar. I've been looking for one of the 2 specimens without a die crack without avail yet, but thought this one is very interesting.

These were designed and issued by Nicholas Veeder using dies from Herren Bros. & Co.

I tried to look up some background on Veeder but only found Nicholas Gerrit Veeder, Revolutionary War veteran from Schenectady, New York that lived to the start of the Civil War. There's quite a bit of information on the Revolutionary War Veeder but I'm still looking for info on the Eutopia Veeder. Anyone have more information on the Eutopia Veeder?

This is made of gold encased in a ring of silver. More information is available on So-CalledDollars.com:

https://www.so-calleddollars.com/Events/Eutopia.html

Also of interest is that ANACS did not give a grade to this!

1886 Eutopia Dollar
Composition: gold, silver
Catalog: HK-1005
Certification: ANACS F-5338-M No Grade
Pedigree: Paul E. Sidebottom

Anyone know Paul E. Sidebottom?

Photos from Fairview Coins.

Zoins · January 30, 2022 8:14AM

Here's a newspaper clipping from September 13, 1899 stating that engraver Charles Holyland was working at Herren Bros. & Co. I wonder if this piece can be attributed to his hand?

It's interesting that newspapers reported on people's vacations back then.

https://books.google.com/books?id=bHUoAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA6-PA46&lpg=RA6-PA46&source=bl&ots=k88vCY61NQ&sig=ACfU3U3e2mHQDRBXqjkJUEhe85QW_fbv0Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwioo4-T4dn1AhWJJEQIHYNbBUcQ6AF6BAgUEAM#v=onepage&q&f=false

Source: The Jewelers' Circular and Horological Review, Volume 39

Zoins · January 30, 2022 8:26AM

Here's Nicholas Gerrit Veeder posing in his Revolutionary War uniform when he was 100 years old at the time of the Civil War.

Amazing that he still had the uniform and could still wear it!

Still need to track down if there's a relationship between this Veeder and the Eutopia Veeder.

Grave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/15927160/nicholas-gerrit-veeder

Flatwoods · January 30, 2022 8:32AM

Very cool piece!
That last photo is something special too.

RichieURich · January 30, 2022 8:47AM

Cool coin! Thanks for posting it!

StrikeOutXXX · January 30, 2022 8:53AM

Here are some clippings on "Your" Nicholas Veeder.

Seemed he died September 17th, 1891. Was either 68 or 69 based on the notices.

Had a sister who was an author initials E.E. and a son named Herman?

Here is his book he wrote:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Cometallism/bIouAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=inauthor:"Nicholas+Veeder"&printsec=frontcover

Zoins · January 30, 2022 8:57AM

@StrikeOutXXX said:
Here are some clippings on "Your" Nicholas Veeder.
...

Great information!

This is very interesting.

Looks like both Veeder men spent time in Schenectady, New York, as that is the location for Union College, which was founded in 1795.

StrikeOutXXX · January 30, 2022 9:05AM

I added another clipping to that other post. Shows he was a confidential adviser to Dr. Hussey (One of those newspaper clippings said private secretary lol) - a prominent Copper manufacturer. The below book touches on Hussey, and mentions Veeder and his marriage to Mary Greig who was involved with Hussey's business?

https://books.google.com/books?id=6mMfAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=dr.+hussey+nicholas+veeder&source=bl&ots=Ysenza996y&sig=ACfU3U13RLvZSbNMX4-q2GXFH5FSqoSgPg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5h7rM7Nn1AhW6kYkEHc-XBNgQ6AF6BAgaEAM#v=onepage&q=dr. hussey nicholas veeder&f=false

StrikeOutXXX · January 30, 2022 9:24AM

Here is his find a grave site entry:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/193921522/nicholas-veeder

kaz · January 30, 2022 9:37AM

Fascinating history!

CaptHenway · January 30, 2022 9:48AM

Very nice.
What grading standards could they have used?

Zoins · January 30, 2022 10:00AM

@CaptHenway said:
What grading standards could they have used?

The Sheldon Scale?

That's what ATS uses. I assume PCGS would use the same, as they do for So-Called Dollars in general, but there are no HK-1005 in the PCGS pop report yet.

CaptHenway · January 30, 2022 3:41PM

Go ahead and grade the piece and I will find five people to say you are right and five people to say you are wrong.

I left there in 1984. We were still subject to the dictates of the Board of Governors. I got yelled at for creating the grades of MS-63 and MS-67 when we started grading back in 1979. They wouldn't let us grade foreign coins struck in official government mints. I have a strong background in exonumia and could make up my own personal grade for this, but could the next Grader who looked at it come up with the same grade?

ricko · January 30, 2022 4:09PM

I know the grade is important to many... and as @CaptHenway said, different eyes, different opinions/conclusions. For me, the piece itself is the attraction - no need to assess condition. Really interesting and great research on Mr. Veeder. Cheers, RickO

CaptHenway · January 30, 2022 4:12PM

Indeed it is a wonderful thing to have. The grade does not matter.

Zoins · February 1, 2022 8:39AM

@CaptHenway said:
Go ahead and grade the piece and I will find five people to say you are right and five people to say you are wrong.

I left there in 1984. We were still subject to the dictates of the Board of Governors. I got yelled at for creating the grades of MS-63 and MS-67 when we started grading back in 1979. They wouldn't let us grade foreign coins struck in official government mints. I have a strong background in exonumia and could make up my own personal grade for this, but could the next Grader who looked at it come up with the same grade?

Good to know the history.

The history of TPGs is an interesting and rich one. We've come a long way.