What special qualities are needed for a coin to achieve MS 67 at PCGS

Joey29

Does a coin need to have special eye appeal in terms of luster, strike, surfaces, color etc and moderate to minimal marks? Or is the emphasis more on very minimal marks and decent eye appeal. Do MS 67 coins have an immediate wow factor to the eye?. What are your thoughts?

Rampage

It is everything you mentioned. Silver coins that are blast white or ones that have eye appealing colors can all garner MS67. But, luster, strike, marks, etc, are all important.

Rampage

What series are you trying to learn about. Perhaps someone can help teach you how to grade the series.

Catbert

You might go to CoinFacts and look at the image database for MS67s of the coin type you are attempting to understand. Obviously pictures can only show so much, but it should provide some insight for you.

Justacommeman

Lustre and fairly clean fields/ limiting marks are a good place to start

m

mavs2583

It would depend on the series. MS67 in a modern mass produced item is different than an 18th century piece.

Joey29

@mavs2583 said:
It would depend on the series. MS67 in a modern mass produced item is different than an 18th century piece.

Buffalo nickel
To rephrase my question how many contact marks are allowed in either a prime focal area or non focal area for a Buffalo nickel to get MS 67 if the eye appeal factors are very very high?

Joey29

@Rampage said:
What series are you trying to learn about. Perhaps someone can help teach you how to grade the series.

@Rampage said:
What series are you trying to learn about. Perhaps someone can help teach you how to grade the series.

Buffalo nickel

Joey29

To rephrase my question how many contact marks are allowed in either a prime focal area or non focal area for a Buffalo nickel to get MS 67 if the eye appeal factors are very very high?

airplanenut

@Joey29 said:
To rephrase my question how many contact marks are allowed in either a prime focal area or non focal area for a Buffalo nickel to get MS 67 if the eye appeal factors are very very high?

The best answer to give is you need to look at a lot of them to get a feel for it. I could say that there’s a rule that there should be no big marks in the prime focal area, but quantifying any marks is difficult because it depends on size, exact location, and even how the light hits them.

Joey29

@airplanenut said:

@Joey29 said:
To rephrase my question how many contact marks are allowed in either a prime focal area or non focal area for a Buffalo nickel to get MS 67 if the eye appeal factors are very very high?

The best answer to give is you need to look at a lot of them to get a feel for it. I could say that there’s a rule that there should be no big marks in the prime focal area, but quantifying any marks is difficult because it depends on size, exact location, and even how the light hits them.

Thanks for your feedback. Do MS 67 coins usually have a wow factor when you look at them in terms of eye appeal that makes them special.

davewesen

weak strikes rarely grade higher than 65 if everything else is there

looking at a lot of 66's and 67's will help you - a big show or auction viewing may be your best option to do that

DisneyFan

A 1938-D in PCGS MS67 price guides at $240. Consider buying one with a green CAC as an example of what a 67 should look like for your collection. It's a fairly common coin (422 have CACs) and Great Collections has several in upcoming auctions.

20 years ago I bought my first 67, a York commemorative half dollar which was one of the least expensive MS 67 commemoratives. I just knew it was a 67 when I saw it.

airplanenut

@Joey29 said:

@airplanenut said:

@Joey29 said:
To rephrase my question how many contact marks are allowed in either a prime focal area or non focal area for a Buffalo nickel to get MS 67 if the eye appeal factors are very very high?

The best answer to give is you need to look at a lot of them to get a feel for it. I could say that there’s a rule that there should be no big marks in the prime focal area, but quantifying any marks is difficult because it depends on size, exact location, and even how the light hits them.

Thanks for your feedback. Do MS 67 coins usually have a wow factor when you look at them in terms of eye appeal that makes them special.

The higher the grade the less likely you should be to see the coin and think “meh.” It doesn’t mean there won’t be such examples, but since eye appeal is a factor, unappealing coins are less likely to get high grades. That said there can be technically very nice coins that get a 67 but just aren’t stellar, but something with a negative quality will start to take a hit by 65 or 66.

ricko

Dings and scratches must be very minimal and not in prime focus areas. Eye appeal is usually present - i.e. luster. Cheers, RickO

CoinJunkie

Generally speaking, it's gotta be a bit nicer than a 66.

Catbert

@CoinJunkie said:
Generally speaking, it's gotta be a bit nicer than a 66.

Profound!

1Bufffan

Very Few Buffalo nickels will grade 67 because of Strike Issues they are far and few and command a very high price, unless you have "Deep" pockets and have Multiple Top dealers helping you out, your search will last for a very Long Time. You can find 1938-D all day long but Early dates not so much.

MFeld

Are you asking about your Buffalo nickel with PVC again? Either way, you seemingly continue to try to fit grading components into a tidy, one size fits nearly all box. And like it or not, grading doesn’t work that way. Each coin is different.

Jzyskowski1

@CoinJunkie said:
Generally speaking, it's gotta be a bit nicer than a 66.

Coincidentally, it won’t be as nice as a 68. 🤨

cameonut2011

@Jzyskowski1 said:

@CoinJunkie said:
Generally speaking, it's gotta be a bit nicer than a 66.

Coincidentally, it won’t be as nice as a 68. 🤨

Or will it after it is color bumped and restickered at a higher grade like the two now infamous Mercury dimes that now reside in the Hansen collection?

cameonut2011

Generally: Clean surfaces, at least good eye appeal, and luster

Type2

Here is a Buffalo I rec a MS67+ on.

Joey29

@ricko said:
Dings and scratches must be very minimal and not in prime focus areas. Eye appeal is usually present - i.e. luster. Cheers, RickO

RickO what are considered the prime focal areas for the Buffalo?

BryceM

If I was trying to learning to grade, I certainly wouldn't start with Buffalo nickels. I've heard many people comment about how they are one of the more difficult series to understand. Strike and luster are always important, but they have peculiarities with Buffalo nickels that takes a while to wrap your head around. The sculpted, uneven fields tend to hide marks. Toning often becomes an important contributor to eye appeal in the higher grade ranges too.

ricko

@Joey29... Prime focal areas for the Buffalo nickel would be the hair on the side of the head and the cheek of the Indian, and the body of the buffalo..... Cheers, RickO

Che_Grapes

Have a friend who has a type set for the 1881 S Morgan - and when you get to 67 it’s an amazing jump.
Harder to distinguish the 64, 65 and 66 but the 67 will just smack you when you look at it ...
Buffalo nickels? It should look like it was just minted... good luck with that one!

Che_Grapes

@Joey29 you are not from Webster Groves MO by any chance, are you?

1northcoin

It might help who sends it in. Gotta think that certain submitters get at least a second look due to past performance in terms of quality submissions.

Joey29

@Che_Grapes said:
@Joey29 you are not from Webster Groves MO by any chance, are you?

No, what is Webster Groves?

Joey29

@Joey29 said:

@Che_Grapes said:
@Joey29 you are not from Webster Groves MO by any chance, are you?

NYC

MasonG

@1northcoin said:
It might help who sends it in. Gotta think that certain submitters get at least a second look due to past performance in terms of quality submissions.

It has been previously posted by PCGS that graders don't know who submitted the coins they are grading. Are you saying that is no longer so?

Joey29

@BryceM said:
If I was trying to learning to grade, I certainly wouldn't start with Buffalo nickels. I've heard many people comment about how they are one of the more difficult series to understand. Strike and luster are always important, but they have peculiarities with Buffalo nickels that takes a while to wrap your head around. The sculpted, uneven fields tend to hide marks. Toning often becomes an important contributor to eye appeal in the higher grade ranges too.

Sent this Buffalo in for conservation at PCGS graded ms 65, old holder. What do you think chances for successful removal of white pvc and a ms 66-67 grade. JA told me it looks like a much higher grade except for the pvc.

MFeld

@Joey29 said:

@BryceM said:
If I was trying to learning to grade, I certainly wouldn't start with Buffalo nickels. I've heard many people comment about how they are one of the more difficult series to understand. Strike and luster are always important, but they have peculiarities with Buffalo nickels that takes a while to wrap your head around. The sculpted, uneven fields tend to hide marks. Toning often becomes an important contributor to eye appeal in the higher grade ranges too.

Sent this Buffalo in for conservation at PCGS graded ms 65, old holder. What do you think chances for successful removal of white pvc and a ms 66-67 grade. JA told me it looks like a much higher grade except for the pvc.

Steve, you read a post about the difficulty of grading Buffalo nickels. Then you proceeded to show a less-than-sharp picture of one side of a Buffalo nickel and asked for an opinion about the chances of a higher grade. Doesn’t that seem the least bit ironic or pointless to you (too)?

You’ve submitted the coin to PCGS for conservation and a sight-seen assessment. It makes no difference what any poster thinks of the coin in its current state, as seen in your picture. None of us are in a position to provide meaningful estimates of its chances for an upgrade.

Joey29

@MFeld said:

@Joey29 said:

@BryceM said:
If I was trying to learning to grade, I certainly wouldn't start with Buffalo nickels. I've heard many people comment about how they are one of the more difficult series to understand. Strike and luster are always important, but they have peculiarities with Buffalo nickels that takes a while to wrap your head around. The sculpted, uneven fields tend to hide marks. Toning often becomes an important contributor to eye appeal in the higher grade ranges too.

Sent this Buffalo in for conservation at PCGS graded ms 65, old holder. What do you think chances for successful removal of white pvc and a ms 66-67 grade. JA told me it looks like a much higher grade except for the pvc.

Steve, you read a post about the difficulty of grading Buffalo nickels. Then you proceeded to show a less-than-sharp picture of one side of a Buffalo nickel and asked for an opinion about the chances of a higher grade. Doesn’t that seem the least bit ironic or pointless to you (too)?

You’ve submitted the coin to PCGS for conservation and a sight-seen assessment. It makes no difference what any poster thinks of the coin in its current state, as seen in your picture. None of us are in a position to provide meaningful estimates of its chances for an upgrade.

Thanks for your feedback. I was looking for some opinions to give me
an illusion of success for a higher grade. I could provide more photos but I think you feel that’s useless, so I will update you when I get a result. Never did restoration before and am hoping for a nice result. Forum members are telling me the coin will be much improved with the type of pvc on the coin. Thanks again for your valuable insight and time