Yesterday at the B&M: I'll show you something, but I can't let you buy it
Weiss
Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
Yesterday:
I know this is something you'll be interested in. But someone came in 6 months ago looking for it and said they'd take it. They never called back. And it's gone up a lot since then. I mean a LOT.
So I'll show it to you. But I can't let you buy it without checking with him first. I'll ask him if he still wants it at the price we discussed. If he doesn't want it, I'll sell it to you at what I offered it to him.
Today:
He wanted it.
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame
--Severian the Lame
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Ouch. Ewwwie. Yikes. Broken heart.
Right of First Refusal got ya.... sorry
It's all about what the people want...
Interesting negotiation
There’s first refusal but it was refused
Then there’s letting it go at the old price
Interesting perspective on that particular dealer.
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The something in question
Gorgeous toned orange gold with luster beneath. Absolutely untouched early (pre-barcode) NGC fatty.
--Severian the Lame
I have mixed feelings here, but mostly I support the dealer.
You personally lost out this time , but that dealer showed that he is loyal to his loyal customers, and that he stands by his word/offer even when the value went up after a price was set.
He was even willing to give you the other guy's discount if he backed out of a six-month old, pre-price runup offer.
I'd be a regular customer to buy or sell at that dealer.
Too bad that you got shut out, but good on that dealer for honoring a deal after that amount of time.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I'm all for "A deal's a deal". But if the person who said they'd buy the coin didn't get back in touch with the dealer in six months...
If I were the dealer I would have tried to get in touch with the customer. If I couldn't reach him, I'd probably hold the coin for up to 30 days, but after that, enough is enough.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was thinking the same thing, minus the loyal to loyal customers part.
I can see it your guys way
I appreciate a dealer being loyal, but if he knows @Weiss enough to show him something he'd like, that seems to indicate Weiss is a loyal customer, too. It's one thing to leave a message, not hear back, and try again, but if someone doesn't return a call after 6 months? They lost months earlier. Outside a specific deal to hold the coin that long, this situation should have never occurred--the first buyer should have gotten it way sooner, or the coin should have been available to anyone long ago.
Concur
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He shouldn't have told you about it, it's almost like teasing you with it.
I couldn't do that to someone.
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True. But, the dealer used the latest interested party to prompt him to call the other guy, and if the other guy failed to follow through now, the coin would be sold to the newer customer at the old price.
Nice looking piece of gold.
I'm glad the guy honored the deal but 6 months is a long time to hold something...
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No matter what the dealer did, someone could probably find something they didn't like about the deal.
It begs the question of how long one should expect an agreed-upon price to be good. 6 months is already a long time, but when the value has gone up a LOT in that time, the buyer needs to put the dealer on his fruit basket list.
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Sounds to me that the ultimate buyer took advantage of the price run-up after sitting on his keester for six months. Sometimes nice is too nice, not that I haven't been taken advantage of a few times in similar circumstances.
He should have called the guy again before showing the coin to a prospective buyer.
Not cool.
Yeah, like it should have happened to me! 😉
Need one of those for my set.
Somebody sell me one.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
And yes, I would have scooped that one up! What a cool coin and cool holder!
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I certainly respect what the dealer did, though I would say he probably waited longer than I would have waited. I would have called the prospective buyer at 30, then at 60 days told him to buy now or it will be put out for sale. Cheers, RickO
Why? He honored a six month old agreement, despite the fact that the buyer didn’t contact him and the value had increased a “LOT”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Weiss, that’s a cool coin and package. Remember, there’s always something cooler around the corner.
You're right, and I know it. But it ticked off all the boxes. And it was right there, in my hands. Flip or keep this one had some serious meat on the bone.
--Severian the Lame
NICE piece of gold in a vintage slab!!
The dealer has enormous integrity.
That is a LONG time to hold a coin and honor a deal, especially, with the market being on the rise, as it has been, in the last 6 months. A LOT of material has doubled in value, since then. It is almost UNFAIR to the DEALER, unless they had a specific, pre-determined, 6-month agreement. JMHO.
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I've only read the first post and then saw an image of a coin, but I do not at all like what the dealer did. I'm going to use the word "amateur", but I really mean something that begins with "idiot".
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The OP could have said "No, I don't want to see it unless it's available for sale".
Just sayin'.
This is a tough call for me. While I admire the loyalty to the first customer, 6 months of leaving the dealer hanging is a long time., especially when there is another interested party (and he could probably sell it for more if he wanted).
However, we don't know the relationship with with the original buyer. Did he buy lots of coins in the past? Was a good source of new material for the dealer? Had they discussed the coin in the previous 6 months but the buyer couldn't pull the trigger? So maybe a call by the dealer was warrented. We just don't know the whole story.
Still sounds like a dealer I would like to do business with.
This happened: A couple of dealers at a show dedicate one case to items that they think are cool and that people might like to see, but they are not for sale. Some collectors are upset because the coins can't be purchased.
You can't please everybody.
The other guy said he'd "take it" 6 months ago, and didn't until now?? He essentially reneged on a deal. Some weird dynamics with this dealer!
I think he was having fun messing with Weiss.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
He better not have been doing that. Weiss probably owns the building the dealers in.
If a coin is on hold then it's on hold, dont show it. If it's not on hold then show it and sell it.
Why entice a prospective customer under a contingency? What does that accomplish?
Obviously nothing positive, because the potential buyer posted this scenario.
The old.. you can have it at a bargain price if the original customer who wanted it six months ago now turns it down trick.
I suspect that we don't have the entire background to understand the story completely.
Was the dealer fishing for a better offer from OP? Feels like it to me, otherwise (as others have said) why show it?
If I were OP and needed to have that coin, I would have offered 10-20% above what the original “buyer” was offered. As they say, money talks.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
The dealer allowed for the possibility that the OP could end up with the coin, while at the same time honoring an agreement well beyond a reasonable length of time. The fact that the OP didn’t end up with the coin doesn’t mean that the dealer didn’t act in a “cool” manner.
It sounds as if you think that if the dealer had just sold the coin, without commenting, that would have been better than the course he chose. To me, it sounds like he went well out of his way to do what he thought was fair.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
But it also depends on why the coin isn’t available. If a dealer friend asks me if I want to see something cool, I’m saying yes. If I can’t have it because they bought it for themselves or it’s already sold, no problem. I can still appreciate something neat. If they show it to me and then tell me a story about how a buyer is super uncommitted to buying it, but they’re going to get one more chance before I get a chance at it, that’s much more a tease than anything else. Both start out with the same “want to see it?” but one leaves me appreciative and is what I expect, while the other leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth and is a twist that came out of the blue.
Yeah, probably best if the dealer doesn't offer to show you the coin. Of course, he doesn't know that, does he?
I mean the dealer made it pretty clear it wasn't for sale.
And there is a possibility the other buyer won't be able to come up with the $$. It's several thousand dollars. In which case I'll have first crack.
Still kinda sucked.
--Severian the Lame
I imagine someone with a bit of empathy could think through the scenarios and guess how people would feel given the circumstances. I highly doubt I’m alone with my thinking.
But aren't coin collectors supposed to be somewhere 'on the spectrum', with less than average empathy?
I know I am!
I'm sure you're not alone. As I said above...
"No matter what the dealer did, someone could probably find something they didn't like about the deal."
So let's suppose, out of a fear that some way, somehow, he'd offend the collector, the dealer never offers him an opportunity to see the coin. Sometime later, the coin happens to come up in a conversation and the collector is disappointed he wasn't given the chance to see it.
And so it goes...
Bummer you missed out on it. Seems like it was probably still cool to see (just me?).
I’ve looked at houses the at we’re already under contract and been second in line for other purchases. We can debate the timeline, but the dealer did what he thought was best and harmed no one. Weiss should be able to expect the same courtesy and the dealer knows he’s got a serious customer in him.
The dealer did a good job not showing the coin for the prior 6 months. Surely he could come up with a white lie (or even something truthful) to explain why it wasn’t shown. Could your scenario come up? Sure. But there are plenty of plausible reasons why a coin wouldn’t be shown, even if it’s just forgetfulness. The disappointment in your scenario requires a whole bunch of things to happen in the background just so for there to be a possible issue. In the actual scenario, the dealer is actively doing something that could easily lead to ill will.
Yes, and in the alternate scenario I proposed, he actively didn't do something that led to ill will.
"No matter what the dealer did, someone could probably find something they didn't like about the deal."
OK we agree to disagree.
Personally I do not want to see a conditional coin that I may have no shot at. Seemed like a cat and mouse. I would not show a conditional coin to a customer who may really want to purchase. Potential customer relationship issue.
Once, at a show, a dealer showed me a gorgeous MS66 Capped Bust half dollar. I was told that their established customer had first dibs on it but that if he passed, I could buy it. I said I’d buy the coin if it became available.
Their customer ended up passing on the coin - it turned out that Mr. Pogue already had that date😉 - and I happily bought it. However, even if things had turned out differently, I still would have been glad to have been presented with the conditional possibility of purchasing the coin.
Even with the potential for a big letdown, being number two in line is much better than not being in line at all.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.