@PerryHall said:
I would have trouble enjoying a coin that I overpaid for so much that I'm so deeply buried in it that I will never be able to sell it without taking a big loss on it. But maybe that's just me. I feel that there are just too many great coins in the marketplace that don't require me to grossly overpay to own it.
I understand and largely agree with that, but I think there’s a caveat involved. If you buy something for too much that you could otherwise get at a more reasonable price with some patience, you’re right. Not the best example but let’s say you find a really great 1881-S Morgan in 67 (or maybe even 68). It may not be a coin you can get every day (like you could a 65)—especially if it’s super nice for the grade—but there will be another. Getting buried in such a coin will hurt. But if you find something with some characteristic that makes it unlikely you’ll get another, then what constitutes overpaying is very different, especially if another buyer down the road may think the same way you did when “overpaying.”
In my example above, I could get a John Hart note pretty much any day. At least a few are on the market. But getting one with as strong a signature as mine could take years or more, or may require waiting until the note I ended up buying goes back on the market. That should appeal to other buyers, but even if not, I can look at it and think not that I paid more than I wished, but rather how exemplary the signature is on my example.
@PerryHall said:
I would have trouble enjoying a coin that I overpaid for so much that I'm so deeply buried in it that I will never be able to sell it without taking a big loss on it. But maybe that's just me. I feel that there are just too many great coins in the marketplace that don't require me to grossly overpay to own it.
I understand and largely agree with that, but I think there’s a caveat involved. If you buy something for too much that you could otherwise get at a more reasonable price with some patience, you’re right. Not the best example but let’s say you find a really great 1881-S Morgan in 67 (or maybe even 68). It may not be a coin you can get every day (like you could a 65)—especially if it’s super nice for the grade—but there will be another. Getting buried in such a coin will hurt. But if you find something with some characteristic that makes it unlikely you’ll get another, then what constitutes overpaying is very different, especially if another buyer down the road may think the same way you did when “overpaying.”
In my example above, I could get a John Hart note pretty much any day. At least a few are on the market. But getting one with as strong a signature as mine could take years or more, or may require waiting until the note I ended up buying goes back on the market. That should appeal to other buyers, but even if not, I can look at it and think not that I paid more than I wished, but rather how exemplary the signature is on my example.
Exactly. When you pay whatever it takes to acquire a coin that will not be available again in your lifetime, there is a strong chance others will feel the same way when the coin is eventually sold again.
@alefzero said:
After my faxed bids got trounced in the Eliasberg sale, I was a bit looser on ones I "needed" going forward. Never truly unlimited, but I was prepared to go nuclear several times. On all but one of those occasions, I won the lot I was targeting. Funny thing is that the ones that seemed like crazy money at the time tended to outperform in the end, better than others. In fact, if I was starting fresh, I think I would only go for the top rarities (absolute or conditional). That has been my approach to early dollars, though I did bail on the 1795 B-20/BB-16 that Heritage auction a year ago. So there is a measure of discipline. (It was holed and damaged.)
That seems to be the way to do it for maximum return. Ride the bi-furcation wave.
I did once, for a coin which is still one of my top few favorites (Athens gold diobol minted from the melted sculpture of Nike which stood in the Acropolis, used to pay for the Peloponnesian War)
I took the estimate, added a zero, then further multiplied by two for good measure. I ended up buying it for about half my max bid. I could have still been beaten but I knew this was a truly unique opportunity and that I had to give it my best shot.
Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
The problem with "price is no object" is you may be bidding again a "hail Mary" bidder. I'm seeing a lot of two "hail Mary" bidders on relatively common coins these days.
@DisneyFan said:
The problem with "price is no object" is you may be bidding again a "hail Mary" bidder. I'm seeing a lot of two "hail Mary" bidders on relatively common coins these days.
If price is no object then that's not a problem, is it?
@DisneyFan said:
The problem with "price is no object" is you may be bidding again a "hail Mary" bidder. I'm seeing a lot of two "hail Mary" bidders on relatively common coins these days.
If price is no object then that's not a problem, is it?
As the saying goes, a fool and his money are soon parted. : )
I've bid strong money on a few auctions but have never bid a ridiculous amount. I guess I'm "old school" in that I only bid what I think a coin is worth...
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@DisneyFan said:
The problem with "price is no object" is you may be bidding again a "hail Mary" bidder. I'm seeing a lot of two "hail Mary" bidders on relatively common coins these days.
If price is no object then that's not a problem, is it?
As the saying goes, a fool and his money are soon parted. : )
You're welcome to your opinion, of course. But if you're not spending the money and someone else is, I'll go with their thoughts about it over yours.
@DisneyFan said:
The problem with "price is no object" is you may be bidding again a "hail Mary" bidder. I'm seeing a lot of two "hail Mary" bidders on relatively common coins these days.
That’s separate. I think there are some people who see a coin they want and just put in a huge bid not because they want to pay that, but because they just don’t want to lose for an increment or two. When two people do that you end up with a massive overpayment, but at an amount no one expected or wanted to pay. I think that’s different from someone continually upping a bid and actively intending to pay the increasing price.
@DisneyFan said:
The problem with "price is no object" is you may be bidding again a "hail Mary" bidder. I'm seeing a lot of two "hail Mary" bidders on relatively common coins these days.
That has turned out to be a real problem on eBay. Two or three bidders nuke snipe bid a lot in the closing couple seconds. And it is usually on a less than impressive coin. But the numismatic understanding of the general eBay coin buying base is not like here.
This one,
I bid an insane bid, the flew to the auction for ANA Anaheim, on the floor with my paddle in case someone bid over my bid. No one did, there was still a few increments before I would have had to use the paddle. One of the best Large DBQ's I have ever seen in hand. I could tell that from the online images so I had to have it and confirmed its amazing character viewing in had prior to auction.
Edited to add: BTW OGH, paid 2x retail............... Would have gone up to 3x.........
Well, sort of. About 10 years ago, I was going to the annual International Paper Money Show in Memphis and Lyn Knight had the auction. In the auction was a National Bank Note from West Chester, PA that was signed by my wife's Great-Great-Grandfather as President. She told me "Don't come without it!" So, the lot came up and I pulled the Statue of Liberty play. It was expensive but Happy Wife Makes Happy Life. Here it is:
I appreciate the comments made regarding "Hail Mary" bidders. A specific example of what happened in a recent auction.
1930 Buffalo nickel, 1st generation PCGS holder MS65 green CAC. PCGS MS65 population 1324 + 26 in Plus. Green CAC MS 65 population 91. PCGS value $250. CAC value $232. First "hail Mary" was $789. Last minute, not knowing first "hail Mary," second "hail Mary" was $814. Plus buyer's commission and shipping cost. Seller was DELIGHTED.
@DisneyFan said:
The problem with "price is no object" is you may be bidding again a "hail Mary" bidder. I'm seeing a lot of two "hail Mary" bidders on relatively common coins these days.
If price is no object then that's not a problem, is it?
As the saying goes, a fool and his money are soon parted. : )
I smile everytime I see that saying. It brings me back to my horse racing days.
Needles was the sire and Soon parted was the name of the mare.
In 1967 the foal was born named Fool and his money.
I might forget what I ate for breakfast but I remember everything from decades ago.
In the old days on ebay, on something I really wanted (not just coins), I would submit a nuclear snipe at the last five seconds...Always got what I wanted for an increment (sometimes two) over the previous amount. Even then, sometimes it was a tad overpriced, but worth it to me. Cheers, RickO
Comments
I understand and largely agree with that, but I think there’s a caveat involved. If you buy something for too much that you could otherwise get at a more reasonable price with some patience, you’re right. Not the best example but let’s say you find a really great 1881-S Morgan in 67 (or maybe even 68). It may not be a coin you can get every day (like you could a 65)—especially if it’s super nice for the grade—but there will be another. Getting buried in such a coin will hurt. But if you find something with some characteristic that makes it unlikely you’ll get another, then what constitutes overpaying is very different, especially if another buyer down the road may think the same way you did when “overpaying.”
In my example above, I could get a John Hart note pretty much any day. At least a few are on the market. But getting one with as strong a signature as mine could take years or more, or may require waiting until the note I ended up buying goes back on the market. That should appeal to other buyers, but even if not, I can look at it and think not that I paid more than I wished, but rather how exemplary the signature is on my example.
Exactly. When you pay whatever it takes to acquire a coin that will not be available again in your lifetime, there is a strong chance others will feel the same way when the coin is eventually sold again.
That seems to be the way to do it for maximum return. Ride the bi-furcation wave.
I did once, for a coin which is still one of my top few favorites (Athens gold diobol minted from the melted sculpture of Nike which stood in the Acropolis, used to pay for the Peloponnesian War)
I took the estimate, added a zero, then further multiplied by two for good measure. I ended up buying it for about half my max bid. I could have still been beaten but I knew this was a truly unique opportunity and that I had to give it my best shot.
The problem with "price is no object" is you may be bidding again a "hail Mary" bidder. I'm seeing a lot of two "hail Mary" bidders on relatively common coins these days.
If price is no object then that's not a problem, is it?
As the saying goes, a fool and his money are soon parted. : )
I've bid strong money on a few auctions but have never bid a ridiculous amount. I guess I'm "old school" in that I only bid what I think a coin is worth...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
You're welcome to your opinion, of course. But if you're not spending the money and someone else is, I'll go with their thoughts about it over yours.
That’s separate. I think there are some people who see a coin they want and just put in a huge bid not because they want to pay that, but because they just don’t want to lose for an increment or two. When two people do that you end up with a massive overpayment, but at an amount no one expected or wanted to pay. I think that’s different from someone continually upping a bid and actively intending to pay the increasing price.
That has turned out to be a real problem on eBay. Two or three bidders nuke snipe bid a lot in the closing couple seconds. And it is usually on a less than impressive coin. But the numismatic understanding of the general eBay coin buying base is not like here.
This one,
I bid an insane bid, the flew to the auction for ANA Anaheim, on the floor with my paddle in case someone bid over my bid. No one did, there was still a few increments before I would have had to use the paddle. One of the best Large DBQ's I have ever seen in hand. I could tell that from the online images so I had to have it and confirmed its amazing character viewing in had prior to auction.
Edited to add: BTW OGH, paid 2x retail............... Would have gone up to 3x.........
Best, SH
Well, sort of. About 10 years ago, I was going to the annual International Paper Money Show in Memphis and Lyn Knight had the auction. In the auction was a National Bank Note from West Chester, PA that was signed by my wife's Great-Great-Grandfather as President. She told me "Don't come without it!" So, the lot came up and I pulled the Statue of Liberty play. It was expensive but Happy Wife Makes Happy Life. Here it is:
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
I appreciate the comments made regarding "Hail Mary" bidders. A specific example of what happened in a recent auction.
1930 Buffalo nickel, 1st generation PCGS holder MS65 green CAC. PCGS MS65 population 1324 + 26 in Plus. Green CAC MS 65 population 91. PCGS value $250. CAC value $232. First "hail Mary" was $789. Last minute, not knowing first "hail Mary," second "hail Mary" was $814. Plus buyer's commission and shipping cost. Seller was DELIGHTED.
I smile everytime I see that saying. It brings me back to my horse racing days.
Needles was the sire and Soon parted was the name of the mare.
In 1967 the foal was born named Fool and his money.
I might forget what I ate for breakfast but I remember everything from decades ago.
In the old days on ebay, on something I really wanted (not just coins), I would submit a nuclear snipe at the last five seconds...Always got what I wanted for an increment (sometimes two) over the previous amount. Even then, sometimes it was a tad overpriced, but worth it to me. Cheers, RickO