Changed in holder
ifthevamzarockin
Posts: 8,902 ✭✭✭✭✭
There have been many threads about how a coin will change in the holder.
Most of them are about spots or the coin getting darker or ugly and also about being gassed.
Has anybody had a coin loose the color or color fade in the holder?
I have one that lost most of the color.
This coin came out of a proof set that was stored for years so I know nothing happened weeks or months before purchase.
The half had some very beautiful toning or I would not have submitted it, I don't submit modern common proofs.
The coin came back from PCGS just beautiful! 
After a few weeks of admiring it into the safe deposit box it went where it sat for the next 16 years.
No other toning problems with other coins in the safe deposit box.
I pull it out to look and all the color is gone! Unless you tilt it in just the right light and then it's still about 75% less color.
I don't have photos from 16 years ago to show the difference and it's not my mind & eyes playing tricks on me.
I will describe how it looked to the best of my ability. 
Obverse
It has a nice cameo and the field is mirrored nice. There was rim toning that started with a real fine band of magenta that turned to a golden amber color. The rim toning was quite even around the coin with just a touch more color from about 4 to 8 o'clock. The golden rim toning blended quick to a pail ice blue across the fields. The bust was pastel pink & blue and has held more of the color than the rest of the coin. The obverse was real nice but nothing to get super excited about and wouldn't bring extra money for the obverse toning alone.
Reverse
The cameo on the reverse is not as good as the obverse and the fields are nice. The upset rim was an amber color and very little went onto the fields. The fields started with a deep ice blue that perfectly colored all the outer lettering. The blue changed to a nice magenta to perfectly color the ring of stars and was not a wide band of color but just enough to cover the stars. The rest of the fields were a nice golden/pink color going up to the eagle, the eagle was a deeper golden color than the fields. It was a beautiful example of target toning with great eye appeal. The rings of color were soo perfect & even. The reverse made this coin and would bring extra money.
The coin wasn't a monster but was very nice and may bring around $100 if the color was still there.
Now it's a $10 coin! What happened? 
Comments
The color is from film thickness, at least in part. If the film thickens, the color will change.
jmlanzaf
Thanks for the reply and I know what you are saying and it can be seen in the photos.
It doesn't have a thick or milky film and the photos show it worse than it shows in hand.
Even under real bright light to get through the film it still seems like the color has faded.
You may be right, every bit of thickness will change the color especially on proof coins.
I went and got 3 of the brightest lights I have and am able to see more color.
The color still seems like it has faded and is 50% of what it was.
The photos may be showing the problem that doesn't show in hand, there is a film on the coin.
It doesn't show as film in hand it looks bright.
I will see if I can get different photos that show the color better.
So sorry. That' s a real bummer.
@charlesf20 Thanks!
It's not that big of a deal but it is unusual so I thought I would share.
Bright lights help but I think think there has been a loss of color.
I edited the heck out of the above photos to try and add some color.
It is clear some of the color is still there but just doesn't show like it use to.
The obverse photo is close to what it was when graded with less magenta showing around the rim.
The reverse photo is still a long way off with much less magenta showing around the stars.
The magenta colors have faded for sure or the blue is taking them over but it seems the blue has faded also.
In some lighting conditions the coin shows little color or haze and just looks like a common proof.
It had a nice pop to it and the colors were bright when graded.
a combination of a faulty memory(whether you are willing to accept that fact or not) and most probably haze, that caused the original color, changing in thickness/composition.
I've never heard of toning that slowly fades over time. If anything, toning will darken over time or stay the same.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Tarnish is a chemical reaction that degrades the original surface. If there is enough of the tarnishing element present, that has not reacted at the time of encapsulation, and the environment is conducive, the reaction will continue. Cheers, RickO
I'm not saying that the "film" is obscuring the color. The "film" IS the color. It's like oil on a puddle. Interference of the light gives the appearance of color. But a thick film is just oil.
This is why you see a progression of color on coins. It's not different colored chemical compounds. It's different thicknesses of the compound.
It depends on the chemical composition and film thickness. Eventually, you will end up monochromatic if it gets thick enough. The final color determined by the chemical composition.
Still looks better than a $10 coin.
Without any before photos there is little anyone can say, my guess is a combination of things. After 16 years some haze has formed and is obscuring the color some. And memory is a funny thing, we tend to remember and enhance the good while suppressing the bad. I suspect you remember it being more vivid at the time as blast white was more in vouge and toned coins not as much on the radar. Today with the mass produced vivid toners that we see every day yours may seem to be less vivid than it may have seemed 16 years ago.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Thanks for all the replies!
@keets "a faulty memory(whether you are willing to accept that fact or not)"
My memory and eyesight get more faulty every day but it's not that bad yet.
@PerryHall "I've never heard of toning that slowly fades over time. If anything, toning will darken over time or stay the same."
I 100% agree
@ricko "Tarnish is a chemical reaction that degrades the original surface."
Yep, and it doesn't un-chemically react, it can only react more.
@jmlanzaf "The "film" IS the color."
I understand this is just different somehow.
@gonzer "Still looks better than a $10 coin."
Thank you for the encouraging comment!
I wish you could see it in hand and you are right it could still be worth $11 or $12
@coinbuf "Without any before photos there is little anyone can say"
You hit the nail on the head.
All I can say is I have handled and photograph many toned coins over the years, this is something different that I have never seen. I know proofs show the color different than a business strike. The coin has changed in appearance, there is no way I would pay for grading if it were raw today, I don't know if I would even spend a buck for an air-tite it would go in a 2x2.
My memory is not that bad and the description I wrote closely matches the color enhanced photo that I took after I wrote the description. The color is still there or the camera and photoshop would not have been able to pick up the color. I agree this is most likely because of film or haze blocking the light & color. It still changed in the holder because it didn't look like it does when it was submitted.
I think it's telling that for the time it sat in the SDB you almost certainly forgot you even had the coin, but you're sure you remember what it looked like!!! it's like seeing your high school sweetheart after 15 years and three kids, sometimes the memory is better.
@keets "it's like seeing your high school sweetheart after 15 years and three kids, sometimes the memory is better."
LOL!
Good answer! 
There were other coins in the box that are exactly as I remember them and have not changed.
I actually kind of recently did the same thing with a crescent-shaped bag toned morgan. I could have sworn the crescent was more dramatic when I put it in storage 10 years ago. So much so I thought maybe it was a different coin and I had lost one. But it was the same one. I've just looked at so many bagged toned morgans in the last 10 years the images got all jumbled up in my head I guess.
I find it a little funny that if someone posts a coin and says it developed spots or the toning went darker no one says it's just your memory. Could this not be that one coin in a thousand or a million that changed in a different way?
I had a similar thing happen last year. I sent in 4 submissions at the same time (different levels and a modern). When the photos popped (before I got the coins back), I did not remember the following SAE having such vibrant colors.
I was surprised when it arrived that it did look like the picture. I have always told myself I need to take pics before shipping to PCGS, but have not started yet. A couple weeks later I was going to list it on eBay. I was taking pictures but got too tired and went to bed. The SAE was under the lights overnight and in the morning it had changed. This is what it looks like then as now.
@davewesen Thanks for the reply!
"The SAE was under the lights overnight and in the morning it had changed."
Was the coin warm from the light source?
Do you think heat caused it or a photochemical reaction?
It was under small florescent lights that do not put out much heat.
I do not know what a photochemical reaction is, so will have to read up on it.
That doesn't sound like enough heat or light to cause a problem.
Basic definition of photochemical reaction.
Anything that reacts or changes with light.
Kinda like how the sun fades the paint on your car.
At least that is the way I meant it, and that is my own definition of it..... all the members here don't need to correct me.
Of course we want the surface of silver to be stable but.....enjoy the light show. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
It would have to be photochemical. It would not have changed overnight without some trigger.
IF IF IF that's what happened, it suggests AT to me.
That’s exactly what the hard boiled egg ase experiment looked like. Also the silver dime.
I use both coins to run experiments. The spots didn’t appear on my ase. Thats different, not to mention how fast and much it changed. The longer I live the more I see. Thanks for sharing the ase. Crazy that happened and sorry it changed 🙀
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶