When should a C or D coin be pushed over the line to an A or B coin?
gtstang
Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭✭✭
This coin was recently discussed and the auction has now ended. It is straight graded and cac approved.
There are huge scratches that show on both obverse and reverse that almost seem like someone ran a micrometer or something across the coin at "in God we trust".
It seems like the toning pushed this coin across that line.
It would be great to hear any thoughtful comments and opinions on why or why not this coin and/or others should get a pass when there are obvious issues. 
0
Comments
Personally, I’d give the coin up to a one point bump (above the grade I’d otherwise assign it) for the eye-appeal/color. I’d never give a coin more than a 1 point bump for eye appeal. Additionally, if I felt that a coin should receive a details grade, I wouldn’t bump it to a straight grade, no matter how much eye appeal it had.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Has someone seen the coin in hand and can say for sure those are scratches and not die cracks?
If there are scratches, then certainly the coin should not get a pass on either a straight grade or CAC.
I dont think the toning is as nice as the photo though...
Hard to say if the mark is a die crack or scratch (through the motto), but enough gouges/dings for me to question the grade... Of course, the TPG had it in hand, I am trying to judge a picture, so, I may be way off base. And I do not bump for tarnish
Cheers, RickO
Never.
A D coin should never be gifted up to the level of a B coin no matter how pretty the tarnish. However in todays market grading scheme anything is possible if enough money can be made from it. As a buyer I decide if I agree with the TPG and/or CAC, yes or no I bid accordingly or pass altogether. I cannot control the market I can only control what I buy.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Since the scratches are toned too, they don’t ruin the eye appeal like they would if the scratches happened after the toning. Eye appeal is sort of a first impression thing. I have a bunch of AU coins that make great first impressions in terms of eye appeal, that if you look closer have defects that you don’t notice at first glance. I like those better than more expensive coins with similar first impression eye appeal that don’t have the defects. I think the hidden defects give the coin character even though the defects often lower the grade (and price). Like this one with a huge chunk missing on the reverse that is camouflaged by its shape that blends in with the letter A
Or this one where the toning camouflages an upside down A looking scratch that I bought from Legend that even has a CAC sticker
I think these coins are great, and most people like them until I point out the flaws, then some people suddenly don’t like them anymore 🌞. But I like them even better because of their flaws, mainly because they don’t ruin the eye appeal. I seek these out
Mr_Spud
Toned over scratches are given a wide berth.
It's a 64 ...so not a huge deal IMO.
Big chunk of value is in the color.
This whole question doesn't quite compute. There's no A B C D grades. If we're talking CAC, then it is grade dependent. And a 65 C is a 64 A... if we're not talking CAC letter grades, I don't know how to interpret the question.
Horrible scratches hidden by toning. Not die cracks.
No way that coin should straight grade, IMO.
Edit, I j ust checked the grade, OMG. LOL, someone got this one wrong.
I don't go nuts over rainbow toning but that's the first impression on the Peace Dollar. The grade of MS 64 seems fair to me, but the scratches are another reason I would pass on it.
When a coin's grade is knocked down due to marks on the cheek, that's because it is in a high focal area. Marks on the reverse, in an inconspicuous location, will affect the grade to a lesser degree. @Mr_Spud hit the nail on the head: First impressions are very important when assigning a grade.
Speaking of eye-appeal, I really like the look of the Draped Bust Half Dollar pictured below. Grey dirt eye-appeal is all there, and the gouge on the reverse is not the first impression. Maybe that's why it's straight graded. I would be reluctant to try to cross it to PCGS, first because we would lose the early soapbox ANACS holder and also because it might land in a details holder. It is selling on eBay, right now at a discounted price. I am not the seller. Go for it!
Matt Snebold
nm
Except if it was "fooled with" in which case it would be a 64 C. CAC does not mention D as a grade,
I know. Which is why the whole OP doesn't compute.
I'm perfectly OK with that coin in a 64 holder with a CAC sticker.
I have a Pilgrim half with beautiful color and an issue only an expert would spot.
When I submitted it I was expecting a 67. PCGS graded it 64. CAC gave it a green sticker.
When I discussed it at a show with one of the CAC graders, he pointed out the issue, said it's a 67 except for one hidden issue, and it belongs in a straight grade 64 holder, not a details holder.
I like the coin and agree with PCGS and CAC on issues like this.
May I ask what is the issue that knocked it down from 67 to 64. I am interested to learn.
I own some coins that are PCGS CAC 64 A. Do you think they would most probably regrade to 65C
I have a coin that could have graded MS 66 but was knocked down to 64 due to a very tiny knee friction in only one spot that only the very perceptive collector might notice
No. But it should work the other way. I'm not saying that 65C=64A. But, assuming reasonably accurate grading, a low end 65 should be a high end 64. It does not, however, follow that a high end 64 needs to be a low end 65. [Although if you submit it enough times, it might slide through.]