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Baker-Manley Washingtonia on display at the ANA

ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 27, 2022 7:52PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Thanks to @Dwight_M for displaying the Baker-Manley collection of Washingtonia medals and So-Called Dollars at next year's ANA!

The Baker Collection sale by the Historical Society of Pennsylvania was an amazing event that many of us watched and or participated in. As a few have said, there's some thought that this sale should never have happened.

The Philadelphia Inquirer wrote an article on this and even quoted @DCW on our very own forums!

Stephan Salisbury said:
One bidder, DCW, writing on an internet message board, commented that “I watched ... one guy just ... buy ... everything! .... Pretty much the whole collection auctioned piece by piece to THE SAME GUY! 3975.”

https://www.inquirer.com/arts/dennis-rodman-former-agent-dwight-manley-buyer-philadelphia-pa-historical-society-baker-collection-medals-20200228.html

How many of us have had a shipment from Stack's like this???

Unfortunately, there's no discussion of specific pieces in the article so here are two pieces picked out for the Inqurirer article.

Circa 1851 Declaration of Independence Signing Ceremony medal
engraver: Charles Cushing Wright
catalog: Musante GW-181, Baker-53
composition: Bronze
grade: PCGS SP63

1862 Washington D.C. Emancipation Bill Passed Tag
catalog: Musante GW-566, Baker-620, var. Brass
grade: PCGS AU-58
provenance: George Massamore, William Spohn Baker, Historical Society of Pennsylvania, Dwight Manley

@Dwight_M said:
George Washington — nothing could be more meaningful than that, It’s telling a story of perseverance, of the rise of the U.S., of being honest. You can see how important [Washington] was. He was revered and respected long after he died for what he did. Today, it’s all, aha, the TMZ moment. But then? The Civil War slave token —how historic is that? This is very moving.

Comments

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2021 10:18PM

    Some questions for Dwight :)

    1. Is there a census of your collection by PCGS cert number?
    2. Are you still adding to this collection?

    One of the confusing things about this collection is what is in it and what isn't. For example, I just gave a talk at the So-Called Dollar Fellowship Gathering and I had assumed Dwight won a piece but someone in the audience said they won the particular piece.

    It would be great if these were entered into the PCGS Set Registry so we could see what is in the Baker-Manley collection when we look up the cert number.

    What do you think @Dwight_M and @HeatherBoyd?

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2021 10:19PM

    I have one of that red box from SB. It can hold lots of coins. That guy must buy a lots of coins SB to get 5 red box.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2021 12:40AM

    @jt88 said:
    I have one of that red box from SB. It can hold lots of coins. That guy must buy a lots of coin SB to get 5 red box.

    The William Sphon Baker Collection sale was a once in several lifetime sale. Dwight decided to try and keep the set in tact and part way through decided to try and buy everything he could. There was no real-time communication, and a few of us remarked at the high prices, and were able to pry away a few but at very high prices! I did manage to get my priority pieces but at much high prices that I had budgeted. I'm lucky the John W. Adams collection sale earlier went lower than I was expecting.

    The funny thing is that, due to the posts here, I know more of what I and a couple of forum members got than what Dwight got! I could go through the ANA website virtual exhibit, but my preference is to use PCGS :)

  • Pioneer1Pioneer1 Posts: 146 ✭✭✭

    When I was at the ANA show in Colorado Springs last week, I visited the exhibit on opening night. It was really well done. Attached are a few photos.

    A So-Called Dollar and Slug Collector... Previously "Pioneer" on this site...

  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting to read that, thanks.
    I have one Baker piece... bought on impulse at a local show last year. I love the simplicity of the obverse bust. It also just GLOWS when tilted and swirled.


  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2022 7:00PM

    @Pioneer1 said:
    When I was at the ANA show in Colorado Springs last week, I visited the exhibit on opening night. It was really well done. Attached are a few photos.

    Great photos @Pioneer1! That's an incredible display and medals. It's interesting that the ANA broke them out of the PCGS holders, especially since the NNC goes out of their way to holder their coins, with ungraded holders from NGC.

    Ultimately, I think Tyrant makes the best displays now because they contain a lot of information, including a photo of the other side.

    Tip for ANA to move to Tyrant-like displays :)


  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2022 7:11PM

    @Meltdown said:
    Interesting to read that, thanks.
    I have one Baker piece... bought on impulse at a local show last year. I love the simplicity of the obverse bust. It also just GLOWS when tilted and swirled.



    Great piece by George Hampden Lovett! I love the design and have one too!

    Was that in the Baker Collection? I ask because mine's cataloged as Baker-97a and I don't see one in 2019 Baker Collection Sale. Your photos also don't give the impression the medal is in a PCGS holder, which the collection was sold in.

    I did find the following in the Baker Collection: Baker-97B in white metal and Baker-97C in silvered brass.


  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2022 8:05AM

    @Zoins said:

    Great piece by George Hampden Lovett! I love the design and have one too!

    Was that in the Baker Collection? I ask because mine's cataloged as Baker-97a and I don't see one in 2019 Baker Collection Sale. Your photos also don't give the impression the medal is in a PCGS holder, which the collection was sold in.

    I did find the following in the Baker Collection: Baker-97B in white metal and Baker-97C in silvered brass.

    Mine is NGC graded as a 63 and also listed as the 97-A
    I can't seem to find my photo of the whole slab... I bought it privately from a collector at a local show last fall.

  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will be at the 2022 ANA this coming August and look forward to seeing the display.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,859 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Meltdown said:

    @Zoins said:
    Great piece by George Hampden Lovett! I love the design and have one too!

    Was that in the Baker Collection? I ask because mine's cataloged as Baker-97a and I don't see one in 2019 Baker Collection Sale. Your photos also don't give the impression the medal is in a PCGS holder, which the collection was sold in.

    I did find the following in the Baker Collection: Baker-97B in white metal and Baker-97C in silvered brass.

    Mine is NGC graded as a 63 and also listed as the 97-A
    I can't seem to find my photo of the whole slab... I bought it privately from a collector at a local show last fall.

    What's interesting is that William Sphon Baker created a collection and a catalog.

    He donated his collection to the Historical Society of Pennsylvania which sold it in 2019. A number of us purchased items in the sale which you can read in @jonathanb's thread below. @Dwight_M bought the most which helped from the collection he donated to the ANA.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1028372/baker-collection-sale/p1

    Because William S. Baker also had a catalog of Washingtonia, many pieces will be slabbed with a Baker catalog number for reference.

    I have a number of pieces which were from his collections and others cataloged with his numbers, but not from his collection.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,859 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pioneer1 Did you see any pieces you were interested in from the sale? Did it look like the entirety of the Baker Collection that Dwight was able acquire? I've been very curious about the whereabouts of some pieces and it would be great to know if they are in Dwight's collection or not.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,670 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I thoroughly enjoyed reading about the significance of the emancipation medal. Thanks. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2022 8:46AM

    @Namvet69 said:
    I thoroughly enjoyed reading about the significance of the emancipation medal. Thanks. Peace Roy

    It's a great piece for a great event!

    I have the counterstamping stencil tool for it.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1029958/an-amazing-civil-war-relic-a-sutler-counterstamping-tool

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,670 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love the ingenuity of the stencil template for the application of the lettering.

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall

  • Pioneer1Pioneer1 Posts: 146 ✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    @Pioneer1 Did you see any pieces you were interested in from the sale? Did it look like the entirety of the Baker Collection that Dwight was able acquire? I've been very curious about the whereabouts of some pieces and it would be great to know if they are in Dwight's collection or not.

    No. I don't think the entire original Baker collection is on display at the ANA. The 2-3 pieces I really wanted I bid and won... at a great expense of course. The few I would have liked to win but did not were not on display at the ANA exhibit. It would be nice if the ANA was able to provide a list of what they have.

    A So-Called Dollar and Slug Collector... Previously "Pioneer" on this site...

  • Pioneer1Pioneer1 Posts: 146 ✭✭✭

    By the way, the attached link is to the video of opening night. Worth watching:

    https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=297124499176582

    A So-Called Dollar and Slug Collector... Previously "Pioneer" on this site...

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have mixed emotions still from this sale. This was a once in a lifetime event, and there were some unique pieces sold in my area of collecting that quite literally left me sleepless in anticipation. Watching one guy buy almost everything, blowing everyone away at sometimes three and four times what they are actually worth, was disheartening. Now these pieces are off the market for good, because they belong to the ANA now. (Poor me, I know. First world problem, etc.)

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2022 6:28PM

    @Pioneer1 said:

    @Zoins said:
    @Pioneer1 Did you see any pieces you were interested in from the sale? Did it look like the entirety of the Baker Collection that Dwight was able acquire? I've been very curious about the whereabouts of some pieces and it would be great to know if they are in Dwight's collection or not.

    No. I don't think the entire original Baker collection is on display at the ANA. The 2-3 pieces I really wanted I bid and won... at a great expense of course. The few I would have liked to win but did not were not on display at the ANA exhibit. It would be nice if the ANA was able to provide a list of what they have.

    I agree if they could show more of the collection and list it.

    Was there more to the display than the photo you shared of the display case with 21 medals in it?

    One thing I really like about the ANS is that they photograph and put their holdings online in the ANS MANTIS catalog which is consistent across their collections, vs. individual articles per collection, with the ANS also has.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2022 6:32PM

    @DCW said:
    I have mixed emotions still from this sale. This was a once in a lifetime event, and there were some unique pieces sold in my area of collecting that quite literally left me sleepless in anticipation. Watching one guy buy almost everything, blowing everyone away at sometimes three and four times what they are actually worth, was disheartening. Now these pieces are off the market for good, because they belong to the ANA now. (Poor me, I know. First world problem, etc.)

    It's always hard to lose something you need, and then harder when it goes into a permanent collection like a museum.

    How many unique pieces did you miss out on?

    And are you sure they were won by Dwight? In the So-Called Dollars and Libertas Americana area, it seems like Dwight didn't win many choice pieces, as I run across them in other collections now.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No, Im not positive that he won them, but it certainly fit the modus operandi. I bid like 5xs what I thought it was realistically worth and still blown away.

    To be clear, I'm not mad at Dwight Manley for having money and enthusiastically bidding in this sale. And I'm not mad that he donated it all to the ANA (how could I be mad at such a selfless act.)

    I'm just mad. :D

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2022 8:12PM

    @DCW said:
    No, Im not positive that he won them, but it certainly fit the modus operandi. I bid like 5xs what I thought it was realistically worth and still blown away.

    To be clear, I'm not mad at Dwight Manley for having money and enthusiastically bidding in this sale. And I'm not mad that he donated it all to the ANA (how could I be mad at such a selfless act.)

    I'm just mad. :D

    Well, I hope another specimen shows up or you find out that they were won by someone else and come up for sale again.

    Sometimes, there's just not enough budget.

    On the smaller side, I just lost a GW-876 by Abraham Demarest tonight. Granted it's not unique piece, but I was reminded of this sale because there was an exceptional pair in the William Sphon Baker sale. I wonder if @Dwight_M picked up either or both of these?

    Baker-435B, Musante GW-876; By Abraham Demarest; Ex-William Sphon Baker

    Baker-435A, Musante GW-876; By Abraham Demarest; Ex-William Sphon Baker

    On the larger side, I'm dreaming about this:

    Something Insane from Augustin Dupre!

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