PLEASE READ - Buy, Sell, & Trade

PCGS_Moderator

We've received a lot of input on this and want to thank everyone for taking the time to help out fellow forum members with all the tips and advice.

The first thing we would like to point out is that this is a forum for collectors, and the biggest reason we exist is for collectors to come together and share information by asking and answering questions of folks with similar interests and hobbies. We did not set out to be a marketplace, eBay, or Etsy. We do, however, offer a Buy, Sell, and Trade thread for folks to connect and Buy, Sell, and Trade as they see fit.

Please understand what the Buy, Sell, and Trade part of the forum comes down to is COMMUNICATION. All we can do is advise how folks communicate in these situations. It is totally up to the two people discussing any particular transaction how that will end up. Collectors Universe assumes no liability in the event of either party failing to fulfill their commitment to the other party. Participants should realize there is always some risk when conducting financial transactions with an unknown party, and it is each party's responsibility to determine their own level of risk taking.

Here are some best practices:

• Use a payment method that has buyer and seller protection.
• Never pay by PayPal Friends & Family. It is worth paying the seller the extra 3% for protection and peace of mind.
• Don't publicly share any personal information such as address, phone number, or email.
• Don't interact or deal with any user that publicly shares any personal information such as address, phone number, or email.
• Don't interact or deal with any user that is going through a third party.
• Research the item you are interested in. If a user is offering a coin, look it up on other auction sites.
• Use common sense, if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

These are not rules, these are simply guidelines. You are ultimately responsible for the actions and decisions you make.

Be kind to each other, and happy collecting!

Coll3ctor

New members should require a post count of 100 to 500 to be able to interact in the BST forum.

JWP

@Coll3ctor That is ridiculous to say that someone cannot interact with anybody on the BST forum until you have so many post. If this is the case you will never get 100 post if you cannot interact it all. A better criteria requirement to sell on the Forum is what needs to be looked at not the number of posts, badges, points. Maybe a requirement of having to send the item that you're selling to the buyer and have the buyer send the payment for the transaction after the item is received by the buyer makes more for a specified number of transactions. I think we're talkin about being scammed, not being silenced. Seems some members think the new person on this forum is the only person just looking to scam someone amd we all know that isn't true.

Nederveit2

I have under 100 posts (with my new ID as I was around here 10 years ago) and have over a dozen successful transactions with fellow board members. Initially some 'buys' were as described above, I sent funds then waited for the item. Currently I ask all members that I haven't done business with to provide a reference, then I check the reference.

Coll3ctor

@JWP said:
@Coll3ctor That is ridiculous to say that someone cannot interact with anybody on the BST forum until you have so many post. If this is the case you will never get 100 post if you cannot interact it all. A better criteria requirement to sell on the Forum is what needs to be looked at not the number of posts, badges, points. Maybe a requirement of having to send the item that you're selling to the buyer and have the buyer send the payment for the transaction after the item is received by the buyer makes more for a specified number of transactions. I think we're talkin about being scammed, not being silenced. Seems some members think the new person on this forum is the only person just looking to scam someone amd we all know that isn't true.

Most everyone has to start somewhere... The scammers will not put in the effort to get the post count up. But hey your comment made me spit out my beer

JWP

@Coll3ctor With your Criteria, the moderator with "67" posts would also be silenced. How many posts did you have when you made your 1st transaction, My 1st transaction was 13 days after I joined the forum.

Coll3ctor

@JWP said:
@Coll3ctor With your Criteria, the moderator with "67" posts would also be silenced. How many posts did you have when you made your 1st transaction, My 1st transaction was 13 days after I joined the forum.

I'm so very proud of you

When there are dirtbags searching for easy prey there has to be some sort of criteria to discourage them. They will not spend the time to get their post count up. Problem solved.

Namvet69

I like to see a summary of positive transactions with seasoned forum members. I also appreciate the sharing of good reputations, industry acumen, scholastic indicators and the way people express themselves in various forum topics. Peace Roy

MWallace

Thank you to the moderator for trying to make this a safe as possible place to BST.

Cent1225

1. How about setting up a system for Positive or negative feedback similar to ebay and reddit. That way over time participants can build up a level of trust with this feedback.

2. Many other forums like this have minimum posts to BST. Maybe 25 is a minimum number. If you don't want to introduce yourself or take the time to comment around the site, then don't BST here.

3. Perhaps put in a wait time of one month from when you first apply to this site until you can post on a BST.

4. Ban comments on ALL BUY-SELL-TRADE ads. There are plenty of places to voice your opinions on this site. Some opinions may be good while others are misguided. Regardless, ALL OPINIONS INFLUENCE others responding to an ad, even it is subtle. Noone has the right to influence someone else's sale.
   The BST should be for members to advertise to Buy, Sell Or Trade, not have comments made about the items they are Selling or looking for. Others opinions have NO PLACE in someone's post to BST.

5. THANK YOU to the Moderator for reaching out to ask our opinion. It is here to voice opinions, not on the BST sites

derryb

The current rash of scams involving a person who wants to conduct business through a provided email will continue even if a minimum post count is invoked on the BST. What needs to be restricted is allowing members to PM other members until a minimum post count has been reached. And even then the scammer will continue to create new forum IDs as quickly as our host catches on to them and bans them.

Walkerguy21D

@Namvet69 said:
I like to see a summary of positive transactions with seasoned forum members. I also appreciate the sharing of good reputations, industry acumen, scholastic indicators and the way people express themselves in various forum topics. Peace Roy

Although most of this is qualitative, for the most part it’s spot on, and I use the same criteria.
There are a number of forum members that I haven’t yet done business with, but would ship them coins before payment if requested, based solely on my perceptions of their character from their forum participation.
How to make this useful for the mods and other members? Not sure, as I’m guessing even Like and Agree counts can be gamed.

Batman23

@Cent1225 said:
3. Ban comments on ALL BUY-SELL-TRADE ads. There are plenty of places to voice your opinions on this site. Some opinions may be good while others are misguided. Regardless, ALL OPINIONS INFLUENCE others responding to an ad, even it is subtle. Noone has the right to influence someone else's sale.
The BST should be for members to advertise to Buy, Sell Or Trade, not have comments made about the items they are Selling or looking for. Others opinions have NO PLACE in someone's post to BST.

There are many times where members post comments that do not belong on a listing. But then there are times when there are helpful comments posted. Some comments I have seen had to do with warning and protecting other members from scams or problems. I would not advocate for the banning of comments on the BST. Most violators get put in check by other members if they don't behave.

Cent1225

@Cent1225 said:
3. Ban comments on ALL BUY-SELL-TRADE ads. There are plenty of places to voice your opinions on this site. Some opinions may be good while others are misguided. Regardless, ALL OPINIONS INFLUENCE others responding to an ad, even it is subtle. Noone has the right to influence someone else's sale.
The BST should be for members to advertise to Buy, Sell Or Trade, not have comments made about the items they are Selling or looking for. Others opinions have NO PLACE in someone's post to BST.

There are many times where members post comments that do not belong on a listing. But then there are times when there are helpful comments posted. Some comments I have seen had to do with warning and protecting other members from scams or problems. I would not advocate for the banning of comments on the BST. Most violators get put in check by other members if they don't behave.

AND YOU HAVE MADE MY POINT
There are many times where members post comments that do not belong on a listing
THEN LET THE MODS DEAL WITH THIS. WHAT QUALIFIES ANY OF US TO BE THE POLICE OF THE BST?

_But then there are times when there are helpful comments posted. _
WHO IS THE JUDGE OF GOOD COMMENTS? EVEN PERCEIVED GOOD COMMENTS HURT SOMEONES POSITION. OPINIONS are just that and ALL Comments INFLUENCE a sale or trade. Good comments hurt the buyers position and negative comments hurt the sellers position. NO COMMENTS or OPINIONS leave the negotiation between the buyer &seller.

What qualifies any of us to make a comment on something posted for sale or trade? NO ONE should be allowed to question my sale of a coin. Your OPINION may be wrong then it hurts my sale. We are all big boys & girls here. We know the risks. I don't want anyone saying anything about my post other than...PM...and sending me a message.
_
Some comments I have seen had to do with warning and protecting other members from scams or problems. _
WHAT QUALIFIES ANYONE TO BE THE POLICE. HOW DO YOU KNOW IF THEIR OPINION IS RIGHT...AFTER ALL IT IS ONLY AN OPINION..MAY NOT BE A FACT. WHAT IF SOMEONES OPINION IS WRONG AND IT HURTS A SALE?? CAN I COME BACK ON YOU FOR YOUR INCORRECT OPINION?

_Most violators get put in check by other members if they don't behave.
ONCE AGAIN, LET THE MODS DO THAT. WHAT QUALIFIES ANY OF US TO BE THE POLICE, AFTER ALL IT IS ONLY YOUR OPINION.
EXAMPLE:
If I were in your store and you had a customer ready to buy a coin and I said to him, "That looks junky" would you like that?...Especially if he then walked out. Or. as he was asking the price and I said "Nice coin" and you raised the price based upon my opinion...would the customer like it...NO. You see, any OPINION INFLUENCES decisions. Decisions should be between buyers & sellers, anD OPINIONS from the outside should be left outside. If the Mod wants to protect us in some way..fine. But what qualifies any of us to be the protector around here.

Once again I say...got an opinion, there are plenty of places to spout off on other parts of this foruM, just don't do it on this BST.

bolivarshagnasty

@Cent1225
Couldn't disagree with you more. Mods are here occasionally. Sometimes not at all on the weekend. Link below an example of why you want members stepping in and Newbies watching and learning how this all works.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1067280/1885-cc-morgan-silver-dollar#latest

Cent1225

The MODS run this site. If they want to stop scams, let them put some restrictions on it that limit who can get into the BST. Like a minimum # of posts or a wait time before you can post a BST. And put up a system of FEEDBACK to weed out the bad actor's. BUT don't turn it into a free for all comment/opinion page. It's a BST.
Look what I proposed for limits to get in then once in NO comments
Glad for the discussion.

Type2

Thank you for taking the time to address this issue. Hopefully it will be a better and easy way to buy sell and trade. Hard to have a one shot fix every one will need to use there heads on this one. To bad there isn’t a was we can have a marking system or symbols to show how many deals where completed and all was a ok then we can see who and how many good deals where done with out any problems.

rte592

When I was a young buck here, I was looking through the wanted ads.
Someone was looking for swiss pucks.
I just saw some at the local place passed the information on to them as well as a picture of them in the showcase.
They contacted me back and asked if I bought them.
I said NO they were priced higher than I liked and I already had a few.
The buyer wanted me to go see if they were still available.
I did and bought 5.
I sent the buyer another picture saying I picked up 5 and if he still had an interest, I would sell them for what I paid.

He wanted me to send them before payment...I laughed and said that's not going to happen.

He showed me in the fourm rules ( on that site) where I must send items before payment.
I said that's all well and good, BUT I'm doing him a favor (spent my time and money already)

He's the one looking for some and I'm not going to send him some without any money up front.

I sent him a bunch of other information (probably too much) he finally took a chance.
He was very pleased...I didn't make an money on the deal just helped him get the item he wanted.

Someone could set up a brokering service for new sellers/buyers, but that would involve more work for someone else and they would want to be compensated for their time.

CoinHoarder

Any solutions to BST scams should not place an undue burden on the moderators. I’m sure this is just a collateral duty for them. Remember PCGS is in business to grade coins. All these forums are provided to us for free. So let’s not create more undue hardship and work for the moderators. We will give them the ideas to prevent scams. They can implement the rules. And we can flag any violations when they occur.

JWP

@Coll3ctor said:
New members should require a post count of 100 to 500 to be able to interact in the BST forum.

If your a member that supports this type of restriction, please take your current post total and divide it by the # of years that you have been a member. The question is when did you surpass this 100 to 500 limitation to buy/trade sell, or maybe even to PM another member?

derryb

min. number of posts AND min. number of time as a member.

any newbie wanting to sell on the BST should expect to ship first, get paid later and choose his/her buyer carefully. It's how the rest of us that are still here earned our way to having references.

JWP

@derryb and what makes you think that the so-called newbies aren't doing this already. Everybody wants to blame the new members and Broad brush the new members as the people that are scamming seasoned veterans on this forum. Everyone has a responsibility to themselves to do everything to prevent from being scammed. Blaming the new members for All the Troubles without 100% proof is just an accusation. I'll ask the question one more time, at what point on this form does a new member lose the Newbie status. I've had members questioned my integrity and my honesty and I've had to prove to them beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was here to treat other people the same way I want them to treat me. Maybe the seasoned veterans on this site need to realize that they need to treat new members on this site the way they want to be treated. Early on I had one member tell me how ridiculous my post for how my prices were too high my shipping these were ridiculous and my payment methods were not sufficient. He then went on to tell me that I would never be successful on this site and I would never sell anything at all. I would like to believe that this was an exception not the rule and members on this site respect others without these comments were made to me. But solve the scam problem not silence the new members. There is a difference in silencing members and stopping scamming.

derryb

one only need to look at who is most likely to/has committed fraud on the BST and direct efforts to reduce fraud by controlling access to the BST by this group or by pointing out to them in a mod sticky that their buyer will likely expect them to ship before receiving payment. Most of us know that this group includes newer members who drop in for a quick sell or scam. Limiting the ability of a new member to make a quick sale reduces the likelihood of BST fraud.

"at what point on this form does a new member lose the Newbie status?"

When he/she has spent enough time on the forum and has enough reputable buyer references to convince a potential buyer that he/she is no risk. This will vary depending on who the potential new buyer is and what seller standards that potential buyer has set for himself.

JWP

@derryb. Thank you for your thoughtful explanation. What bothers me is when someone says you have to have 100 to 500 post or more to even PM a member to ask a question. And if you want to buy sell or trade it's hard 2 make a comment and not be able to PM a member to ask a question. Members that criticizes another person's post like has been done to me two or three times is kind of disheartening. When a member tells you how unsuccessful you will be it is very disheartening. And when a member openly says that they will never do business with a new member it is sad. I hope the moderators can find way where all members can buy,sell, and trade on the formum without consideration of the time that they have been a member. Once again the only safety you have in preventing yourself from being scammed is you, yourself.

derryb

@JWP said:
Once again the only safety you have in preventing yourself from being scammed is you, yourself.

Some members, especially honest, new members have a false sense of security when it comes to the BST. A sticky at the top from our host with warnings and advice would help them protect themselves.

JWP

Understand what you're saying, I believe you and I've had one transaction and that was my method.
I mailed you the money or the package and you mailed me the money or the package back after receiving the package or the check clearing. I've done 17 or 18 since I joined August 3rd. I've checked out the members as much as possible and by doing what I just mentioned, hopefully I've earned their trust if not fully at least a little bit. I've not had any problems with scams I'm not here to scam anybody I am here to learn buy sell or trade. All of which I have done and plan to continue to do. I just don't understand why a member has to criticize you through a pm and tell you how disgusting your listing is how limited your payment methods are and try to tear you down and tell you that you will never be successful. This has always irritated me and I will never do business with that member ever. However, I'm not about to mention his name because I figured that would be unprofessional. I understand that no matter what you do no matter what this form does a person still has a slight chance or more to be scammed. I've had problems on eBay but I was able to stop the payment and get my money returned without a loss. I really enjoy this formum and all the people on it.
99.99% are here because they want to be here and have no problem with anything however I can only surmise that there are a few that are here to do devious things and these members will range from new members to veterans. I don't like it when people broad-brush new members and include me in that category. I may be outspoken, but if I don't express my viewpoint I can't expect somebody else to do it for me. I hope that the moderators if they follow through with some of these suggestions find a happy medium where it will satisfy majority of effort ones concerns and not try to silence the members instead of eliminating the scammers. Apologize for the long winded post and thanks for the opportunity to specifically answer the question that you had for me. Thanks again, Jon.

ifthevamzarockin

There is a fox in the hen house.

PM sent

BigJohnD

Well, just ask a couple questions when you're a buyer or seller. References. References. References. Or someone that knows you in person. Yep, I was a new buyer once, and someone gave me a shot. Not many Posts, no circle of trust, but now there's plenty to be given. Paypal or some other payment protection. It's not easy busting this nut, but if you follow the simple advice it's not difficult.

ChrisH821

I think these three points cover 99% of the scams and loss that have occurred around here:

-1- Use a payment method that has buyer and seller protection.
-2- Purchase adequate postal insurance or use registered mail.
-3- Bullion can ONLY be insured through REGISTERED MAIL!!!!

silverpop

just be extra careful when dealing with people you have not done biz with before is the best advice i can give

Cent1225

Mods
Please look at what happened on this post in the BST.....
1793 AMERI. Chain Cent (S-1). PCGS Fine Details. FUN show, table 830.

Someone comes on and trashes this guy's post because they think they know more. Turns out they don't but the post is still trashed.

PLEASE...THIS HAS TO STOP.....PLEASE

Dug13

I belong to a metal detecting forum that has a platform called iTrader.
It list members recent transactions, top traders, and Hall of Shame traders.
All voluntary info by both parties. Seems to work well for them(me).
Metaldetectingforum.com.

BAJJERFAN

It looks like Venmo et al will be required to report via 1099-k all cash payments that exceed for now $600 unless congress specifies a larger amount.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/taxes/cash-apps-to-report-payments-of-600-or-more/

As I understand it PayPal currently reports activity in excess of $20K or 200 transactions. Currently PPFF payments are not included in PayPal reporting. Does anyone know if PP plans to continue to not report PPFF transactions?

Azurescens

You guys could use the forum ratings system to gatekeep access. People naturally obtain their Collector status or whatever and gain rights to post here. You can then vet people if they're legitimate and boost them to 5 stars. If you wanna get fancy, you can change the star colors, titles, or whatever.

Could always make it a requirement to have a PCGS account number, or otherwise prove you're a dealer.

You can use your regulars here in BST as anchors. If someone made a successful trade with PerryHall or SurfinXHI, then they're probably good to go. Or if they have an established web store, Ebay, physical location or whichever.

Maybe just require 3 stars, idk, idk how it works. But you have existing infrastructure that works fine that you can modify. Account age restrictions, idk?

While I feel it's important to allow access to everyone, especially like a kid selling wheat cents for Band or whatever, it's important to recognize the world we are in today.

I know most places use IP bans, but it might be worth considering implementing device bans if you have repeat offenders.

Cent1225

Moderator
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE BADGERING AND NEGATIVE COMMENTS POSTED ON THIS FORUM???

IT IS MORE THAN TIME TO PUT AN END TO THESE COMMENTS THAT HURT PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO BUY/SELL/TRADE HERE
PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!

al410

This is same type scam as before on here, sender of this PM is "davebe"
"korder has 1892 O Morgan Dollar in G to F condition for sale in good condition Here’s his email korderfreeman@gmail.com"

Al

Colombianito

Been here for over a year and haven’t commented . I have a good reputation and track record with many of the big and small dealers. Actually with individuals as well.

Requiring a high post count is not a good idea. Personal references is .

pdoidoi

I have been on here many years with hardly any post. I made a comment and was criticized because I had very few post. Should I post just to appear like I am some big shot. My spelling is not to great and my typing skills is worse . I also I have had many problems with logging in and password issues which have given me lost interest in using this site. People have different reasons for the amount of the post they do and should not be judged for it.

BrutusCoinHunter

Perhaps we could find an escrow service or services that would alleviate this problem.? Sure, they would take their cut, BUT, if they acted as a clearing house for both the own and payment, problem solved in regards to the scammers.

Sgs22

@BrutusCoinHunter said:
Perhaps we could find an escrow service or services that would alleviate this problem.? Sure, they would take their cut, BUT, if they acted as a clearing house for both the own and payment, problem solved in regards to the scammers.

Thanks good idea I’ll look into it. I’m selling at WELL below what dealers / ebay sellers are asking . I should put that in the listing. 🤔🙄

Cent1225

Administrator:

This site is turning into an advertisement page for Coin sales on other sites. Referrals to eBay, Great Collections etc.

You have to wade through the numerous referral ads to find actual coins and Bullion being sold.

I suggest the advertisers get their own page and leave this one for buy,sell trade only.

Thank you

PerryHall

@Cent1225 said:
Administrator:

This site is turning into an advertisement page for Coin sales on other sites. Referrals to eBay, Great Collections etc.

You have to wade through the numerous referral ads to find actual coins and Bullion being sold.

I suggest the advertisers get their own page and leave this one for buy,sell trade only.

Thank you

Agree. Unless a coin that's being sold is available for purchase here, it doesn't belong here on the BST. The BST shouldn't be used for free advertising of coins that are only available in other venues.

PerryHall

Should there be a separate free advertising forum to sell coins that are only available for purchase in other venues?

CoinHoarder

@PerryHall said:
Should there be a separate free advertising forum to sell coins that are only available for purchase in other venues?

They should contact PCGS and PAY for advertising space.

RULE # 5:
If you would like additional advertising space on this site please contact our Advertising Department.

Halfpence

Completely agree. Actual BST posts get lost among posts that advertise for sale elsewhere, and which are bumped to the top on a daily basis.

Cent1225

Seems you can post good ideas here that many agree with but nothing changes. While I appreciate this site and those that run it, a little more attention to this post by the originator to implement the ideas presented would improve this site. These comments are made in a positive manner to make this site better.

Halfpence

@PCGS_Moderator , please see above posts.

PCGS_Moderator

Thanks all for the input.