THis was a few months before I started working there.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@burfle23 said:
They are in my Coin Week article at the top of this post as well...
Seller did send me another edge view which shows one of the atts well:
>
In my humble opinion those edge letters and symbols don't resemble any seen on genuine dollars of that era.
And you have an image of a genuine one to share?
No I don't. I've never taken a picture of a coin. However, I have seen a few Flowing Hair dollar edges and what you have posted looks nothing like those found on any genuine pre-2000 US coin of any date or type.
I know you are J.Y. I tear your articles out of the magazine. Now. since joining CU, I plan on reading all your posts here. I think you or one of the Darkside Group has an image of the edge letters on a genuine 1799 Dollar.
@burfle23 said:
They are in my Coin Week article at the top of this post as well...
Seller did send me another edge view which shows one of the atts well:
In my humble opinion those edge letters and symbols don't resemble any seen on genuine dollars of that era.
Back when we were seeing one or two of these a month, I always figured that reverse engineering a flat castaing machine positive lettering bar from the round edge of a (relatively soft) coin was a hell of a lot harder than reverse engineering a pair of flat(ish) dies from a flat(ish) coin.
They possibly rolled the edge of the coin in some dental ceramic, fired it, then cast a metal negative from that, and then cast a steel positive from that and used that to letter the coins. A lot of steps for flaws to creep in.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@burfle23 said:
They are in my Coin Week article at the top of this post as well...
Seller did send me another edge view which shows one of the atts well:
In my humble opinion those edge letters and symbols don't resemble any seen on genuine dollars of that era.
Back when we were seeing one or two of these a month, I always figured that reverse engineering a flat castaing machine positive lettering bar from the round edge of a (relatively soft) coin was a hell of a lot harder than reverse engineering a pair of flat(ish) dies from a flat(ish) coin.
They possibly rolled the edge of the coin in some dental ceramic, fired it, then cast a metal negative from that, and then cast a steel positive from that and used that to letter the coins. A lot of steps for flaws to creep in.
Don't you think the Chinese made these? If so, they figured how to apply lettered edges because some foreign fakes have lettered edges. I talked to my boss about this thread (ex NGC finalizer) and he was advised that these fakes exist with the defect in the "R" removed but he has not seen one.
@burfle23 said:
They are in my Coin Week article at the top of this post as well...
Seller did send me another edge view which shows one of the atts well:
In my humble opinion those edge letters and symbols don't resemble any seen on genuine dollars of that era.
Back when we were seeing one or two of these a month, I always figured that reverse engineering a flat castaing machine positive lettering bar from the round edge of a (relatively soft) coin was a hell of a lot harder than reverse engineering a pair of flat(ish) dies from a flat(ish) coin.
They possibly rolled the edge of the coin in some dental ceramic, fired it, then cast a metal negative from that, and then cast a steel positive from that and used that to letter the coins. A lot of steps for flaws to creep in.
Don't you think the Chinese made these? If so, they figured how to apply lettered edges because some foreign fakes have lettered edges. I talked to my boss about this thread (ex NGC finalizer) and he was advised that these fakes exist with the defect in the "R" removed but he has not seen one.
To answer your question, No. I personally never saw a high quality counterfeit from China until 2007, but as I was no longer authenticating I do not know when that maker began production.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
2 year old thread alert!!!
Another hits the Bay this week...
Anyone have one of these fakes?
Full rez image would be helpful to identify PUP's
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Here is a link to the ANACS article from June of 1978 with diagnostics:
https://reader.exacteditions.com/issues/44506/page/42
THis was a few months before I started working there.
They are in my Coin Week article at the top of this post as well...
Seller did send me another edge view which shows one of the atts well:
In my humble opinion those edge letters and symbols don't resemble any seen on genuine dollars of that era.
And you have an image of a genuine one to share?
No I don't. I've never taken a picture of a coin. However, I have seen a few Flowing Hair dollar edges and what you have posted looks nothing like those found on any genuine pre-2000 US coin of any date or type.
I know you are J.Y. I tear your articles out of the magazine. Now. since joining CU, I plan on reading all your posts here. I think you or one of the Darkside Group has an image of the edge letters on a genuine 1799 Dollar.
Back when we were seeing one or two of these a month, I always figured that reverse engineering a flat castaing machine positive lettering bar from the round edge of a (relatively soft) coin was a hell of a lot harder than reverse engineering a pair of flat(ish) dies from a flat(ish) coin.
They possibly rolled the edge of the coin in some dental ceramic, fired it, then cast a metal negative from that, and then cast a steel positive from that and used that to letter the coins. A lot of steps for flaws to creep in.
Don't you think the Chinese made these? If so, they figured how to apply lettered edges because some foreign fakes have lettered edges. I talked to my boss about this thread (ex NGC finalizer) and he was advised that these fakes exist with the defect in the "R" removed but he has not seen one.
My Friend at ICG also stated he has seen an example with the "R" repaired.
To answer your question, No. I personally never saw a high quality counterfeit from China until 2007, but as I was no longer authenticating I do not know when that maker began production.
Edge comparison of this one to an 1800 draped bust $:
Scary stuff; thanks for sharing, Jack, and keep up the good work!
That's a shocker! I guess most of the ones I looked at were 1795-1799. Many have a broken crescents.