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Moffat Gold Ingots
MrEureka
Posts: 23,943 ✭✭✭✭✭
Why $16?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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What does it weigh?
The Spanish 8 escudos or doubloon was worth $16.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
@Regulated ?
@CaptainBlunt
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
That is what it was worth at that time. Always fun to see the prices. There is a 67.9 oz ingot on GC now. It is stamped $1250.80.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
If that's the PCGS AU55 piece, it weighs 28 2 grams. 31.1 grams per Troy ounce. $20.67 gold price per Troy ounce. 0.86 fine. Gold value is just about $16
Here's a TrueView of a different piece but with the same denomination and fineness.
Didn’t a 20$ gold coin have about 16$ worth of gold in it?
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
No. It had $20 worth of gold.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Not at the time of Moffat. They were $20 worth of gold back then. 0.96 Troy ounces at $20.67.
It's interesting to note that today a $25 gold coin has $893 worth of gold
and a $20 gold coin has $1730 worth
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Which coin?
I was thinking of the 1 oz. AGE but that has a $50 legal tender value.
More or less. But how was the number calculated, and why was that denomination chosen?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Both the Liberty Double Eagle and the St G.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
I answered this question earlier in this thread. The Spanish 8 escudos gold coin or doubloon was worth $16 at the time and Spanish gold coins were in circulation in California at that time.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"The $16 Moffat ingots were different. They were consistent in size, carat, weight and value. As is clear from the almost universal uniformity, they were intended to serve as circulating currency items. There are two unique examples bearing the Moffat name, one denominated $14.25, the other $9.43. These are both in the Smithsonian Institution and were acquired with the vast Lilly Collection. Beyond these two, all others known are marked as 20 3/4 carat and $16.00 face value, which corresponded to the value of a Latin American eight escudos or "doubloon." This was the highest value circulating coin in the United States until the issuance of the first $20 gold pieces by the Mormons in Utah, and in 1850, by the United States Mint. Eight escudos were legal tender until 1857 and circulated even later, so the $16 denomination would have been comfortable and sensible to the people of the era. As the $16 ingots were intended as a circulating medium, they constituted an emergency coinage for early Gold Rush California, and they have always seen avid collector interest."
Source
The calculations on the odd denominations were based on gold at the official price of $20.67 an ounce, less a few pennies to err on the conservative side. The $16 ingots were based on gold at $20, which made them significantly more valuable than $16 in US gold coin, and even more significantly valuable than a doubloon. I assume the idea was to gain wider acceptance of the ingots as a circulating medium of exchange. Not a crazy idea, considering that Moffat was probably buying gold dust and nuggets at a steep discount.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The symbol for the Mexican Peso is the same as that for the US Dollar. Are there contemporary accounts that indicate whether the Moffat ingots were thought of as sixteen dollars, sixteen pesos, or as 8 escudos? Or were the currencies so interchangeable that people didn't even think about it?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Three years ago, one sold for north of 200K.
Interesting historical information.... Would really like to hold one of those bars 'in hand'.... Cheers, RickO
That's the problem with this site. You guys post info for too many historically cool coins and it makes me want one for my collection. Unfortunately, the kids wanted to go to college and that put a dent in my coin purchases (although a lot of these would still be beyond my budget)
I’ve always admired those ingots.
My YouTube Channel
Back in the late 1980’s during my second tour of duty at Rarcoa, Ed Milas had an incredible Pioneer Gold inventory “collection”. There were FIVE of the $16.00 Moffat bars in stock, including the one Zion’s shows with the extra $ sign at the top.