How much does a "flaw" effect grade?

LCS

There are many types of flaws/errors to be found on products produced by the U.S. mint. PD & S...

In this conversation I am wishing to discuss the tearing of the copper layer on a Lincoln cent when struck. Below is an example of such a tear.

this is a very common occurrence on "Zincoln" cents.

How much of a hit would I expect when submitting a coin with this type of imperfection for certification? 1 point? 2 points?

BryceM

I don't think there's an easy answer to this. The location is important. The problem on this coin appears to be relatively hidden near the rim. It's "as made" but collectors looking to buy a really stellar example would be turned off by this.

I'm interested to see what others think.

Steven59

That's not really a flaw - that just split plating and I would render that a details coin now that the zinc is exposed to air it may start corroding. Actually very common - Nice picture!

MsMorrisine

Copper corrodes

You don’t sentence a copper coin to a details grade because the copper might corrode

jmlanzaf

Does PCGS have specific guidelines?

MsMorrisine

Does a strike through affect the grade?

Steven59

@MsMorrisine said:
Copper corrodes

You don’t sentence a copper coin to a details grade because the copper might corrode

But I guess they do when it does? Kinda like the people that determine beautiful colorful toning is gonna turn black - negative Nellies

MsMorrisine

Actually I was thinking about what you were getting at.

Zinc is reactive enough it might turn in the holder. Does PCGS give it code 96 — no service— because they don’t want to holder a potential problem?

A counter point is that steel is reactive and corrodes easily and they holder them and I’ve never heard of them 96’ing a coin due to broken plating.

LCS

Would you be surprised if the coin pictured here pulled a PR68red grade?

MsMorrisine

Going off the idea that strike throughs get grades, I could see them giving a numerical grade for it “as struck.”

This discussion does make me wonder if the same problem exists on steel cents.

LCS

Well, this coin was certified as a PR70red.

The current 3rd party certification services are all market graders. None of them are technical graders. They look at your coin, decide what they believe it is worth, and assign the grade that ITHO represents that value.

So, it allows them to assign proof 70 grades to coins that are not perfect because, today, that's what the market dictates.

Is that correct?

ricko

@LCS .... That is a great picture... I would worry about the exposed zinc corroding quickly... That would not prevent it from slabbing though. It may detract from the grade.... Not sure how much. Cheers, RickO

MsMorrisine

i did not see the whole coin. I took your word that it graded 68. i can only take your word that it graded 70.

I'm not sure about market grading. I'm not a believer in market grading.

for modern coins, I learned what pcgs grades from experience. they grade the "as struck". a break in the frosting? if it not from contact, it can still get a 70. same for a strike through. the same for a disturbance in the mirrors of a dcam. the same applies for disturbances in the fields of a dmpl. it all comes down to contact marks.

this will be upsetting to you. i'm ok with it. but I'd also say not all 70s are created equal and, yes, the market accepts it. However, not everyone on this pcgs forum accepts it.

LCS

Go to PCGS pop report and look at the 2001-S proofs. This is the very first coin that comes up on their site... This is a common occurrence. Just take a look through their other proof 70's of that era,

Zoins

I'd ask @ErrorsOnCoins

This looks like it’s up his alley.

MsMorrisine

Even the coin under the subject cent has the flaws of radial disturbances in the mirrors.

I can’t explain why the coins were chosen except to show them as 70s.

And I’m now trying not to kick the bears here.

LCS

I think a bear needs to be poked every so often... :-)