@earlyAurum said:
The interesting thing is will anyone pay a premium over intrinsic value. With the 10% BP and the price of Bitcoin very volatile, i would be reluctant to bid anything over 90% of spot bitcoin until the last few minutes. This could have a negative outcome for the seller unless the BP was negotiated down significantly. I don't 160k premium in the asset.
The intrinsic value of the item under discussion is the value of its gold plating. All other value is a promise. Intrinsic value is what is left after one removes the promises. Dollars, for example, have no intrinsic value other than their value in providing heat when ignited or their value when there is no more toilet paper. All other value to the dollar is faith in the promise that the next guy will accept it as payment and what value he will place upon it.
@earlyAurum said:
The interesting thing is will anyone pay a premium over intrinsic value. With the 10% BP and the price of Bitcoin very volatile, i would be reluctant to bid anything over 90% of spot bitcoin until the last few minutes. This could have a negative outcome for the seller unless the BP was negotiated down significantly. I don't 160k premium in the asset.
People are bidding 140% of spot now. It will be interesting to see where this ends up.
@earlyAurum said:
The interesting thing is will anyone pay a premium over intrinsic value. With the 10% BP and the price of Bitcoin very volatile, i would be reluctant to bid anything over 90% of spot bitcoin until the last few minutes. This could have a negative outcome for the seller unless the BP was negotiated down significantly. I don't 160k premium in the asset.
People are bidding 140% of spot now. It will be interesting to see where this ends up.
If I buy the coin, crack it out of the holder and discover that the password under the hologram doesn't work, I wonder if Great Collections would refund my $1.6 M? Or if I'm just out the money. Maybe they would pass the buck to PCGS since PCGS certified the coin as authentic. Though "authentic" doesn't necessarily mean that the password hasn't already been used. Plus PCGS could refuse to honor the guarantee since the coin was cracked out. I could see litigation where everyone loses.
Maybe I'm over-estimating the risk since I'm not familiar with these things.
@savitale said:
If I buy the coin, crack it out of the holder and discover that the password under the hologram doesn't work, I wonder if Great Collections would refund my $1.6 M? Or if I'm just out the money. Maybe they would pass the buck to PCGS since PCGS certified the coin as authentic. Though "authentic" doesn't necessarily mean that the password hasn't already been used. Plus PCGS could refuse to honor the guarantee since the coin was cracked out. I could see litigation where everyone loses.
Maybe I'm over-estimating the risk since I'm not familiar with these things.
If you crack it out and try to use it, you might want to have a PCGS representative present, especially for the $50 million one.
The new mayor of NYC is taking his first few paychecks in bitcoin. More importantly, he wants to make NYC the bitcoin hub of the world. This is significant because NYC's economy compared to countries around the world would put it approximately in the top 10 or so biggest economies.
@savitale said:
If I buy the coin, crack it out of the holder and discover that the password under the hologram doesn't work, I wonder if Great Collections would refund my $1.6 M? Or if I'm just out the money. Maybe they would pass the buck to PCGS since PCGS certified the coin as authentic. Though "authentic" doesn't necessarily mean that the password hasn't already been used. Plus PCGS could refuse to honor the guarantee since the coin was cracked out. I could see litigation where everyone loses.
Maybe I'm over-estimating the risk since I'm not familiar with these things.
over estimating risk in financial matters is a good thing. It's the under estimating that gets you in trouble.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
@earlyAurum said:
The interesting thing is will anyone pay a premium over intrinsic value. With the 10% BP and the price of Bitcoin very volatile, i would be reluctant to bid anything over 90% of spot bitcoin until the last few minutes. This could have a negative outcome for the seller unless the BP was negotiated down significantly. I don't 160k premium in the asset.
People are bidding 140% of spot now. It will be interesting to see where this ends up.
Note that ONLY 10 EXIST!
If BTC sticks around, what is this worth as an artifact of the origins of the cryptos?
@earlyAurum said:
The interesting thing is will anyone pay a premium over intrinsic value. With the 10% BP and the price of Bitcoin very volatile, i would be reluctant to bid anything over 90% of spot bitcoin until the last few minutes. This could have a negative outcome for the seller unless the BP was negotiated down significantly. I don't 160k premium in the asset.
The intrinsic value of the item under discussion is the value of its gold plating. All other value is a promise. Intrinsic value is what is left after one removes the promises. Dollars, for example, have no intrinsic value other than their value in providing heat when ignited or their value when there is no more toilet paper. All other value to the dollar is faith in the promise that the next guy will accept it as payment and what value he will place upon it.
@Gazes said:
The new mayor of NYC is taking his first few paychecks in bitcoin. More importantly, he wants to make NYC the bitcoin hub of the world. This is significant because NYC's economy compared to countries around the world would put it approximately in the top 10 or so biggest economies.
The volatility in crypto prices/value will continue to prevent them from being widely accepted as a form of payment. Imagine the headache at McDonalds in trying to keep up with changing value if it accepted bitcoin. Prices in bitcoin would be continuously fluctuating.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
@Gazes said:
The new mayor of NYC is taking his first few paychecks in bitcoin. More importantly, he wants to make NYC the bitcoin hub of the world. This is significant because NYC's economy compared to countries around the world would put it approximately in the top 10 or so biggest economies.
The volatility in crypto prices/value will continue to prevent them from being widely accepted as a form of payment. Imagine the headache at McDonalds in trying to keep up with changing value if it accepted bitcoin. Prices in bitcoin would be continuously fluctuating.
The price paid is in US dollars, and the fractional bitcoins are transferred to match that amount at that exact moment. The merchant could instantly convert the Bitcoin to US dollars if they so desired.
@Zoins said:
Not sure if it's too late for this, but if I owned the 1794 dollar, I would be tempted to crack it out and hold it raw like @cardinal did. Not sure if that's smart or dumb, but it would be historic and amazing.
I wonder if Bruce has thought of that?
The question of cracking out the 1794 Dollar came up in Steve Contursi's press conference long ago. The answer was a resounding "NO!" With many reporters in attendance, and cracking the coin out while they were there, the commotion might have affected the attention of the person who would crack it out, and "Plink.... the holder cracks and the coin starts rolling on the floor!" When the coin was cracked out at the Pittsburgh ANA, I saw how the coin was removed from the holder. PCGS used a vertical band saw to trim off all four edges of the coin holder, using a jig to support the coin so that ONLY the edges were cut with the saw. When the coin was cracked out at the Los Angeles ANA, the PCGS employee cracked it using cutting pliers. Obviously, that guy was VERY skilled with that, as it only took one clip on one side, and the holder split in two horizontally.
If the next owner wants his name on the label, maybe there can be an arrangement for Bruce and the new owner to be present when is cracked out, and allowing those two to examine the coin out of the holder. If that were to happen, I would suggest them viewing the coin in a dark room that PCGS uses for photography. The coin looks fantastic in the holder, but it looks other worldly when seen out of the holder!
@Gazes said:
The new mayor of NYC is taking his first few paychecks in bitcoin. More importantly, he wants to make NYC the bitcoin hub of the world. This is significant because NYC's economy compared to countries around the world would put it approximately in the top 10 or so biggest economies.
The volatility in crypto prices/value will continue to prevent them from being widely accepted as a form of payment. Imagine the headache at McDonalds in trying to keep up with changing value if it accepted bitcoin. Prices in bitcoin would be continuously fluctuating.
Today they are an investment vehicle at best and a speculation vehicle at worst.
There are countries that want to use Bitcoin, but they may be countries whose own currencies can fluctuate even more than Bitcoin.
@Gazes said:
The new mayor of NYC is taking his first few paychecks in bitcoin. More importantly, he wants to make NYC the bitcoin hub of the world. This is significant because NYC's economy compared to countries around the world would put it approximately in the top 10 or so biggest economies.
The volatility in crypto prices/value will continue to prevent them from being widely accepted as a form of payment. Imagine the headache at McDonalds in trying to keep up with changing value if it accepted bitcoin. Prices in bitcoin would be continuously fluctuating.
Cart horse.
The more they get used for commerce, the more stable the price will be.
@Gazes said:
The new mayor of NYC is taking his first few paychecks in bitcoin. More importantly, he wants to make NYC the bitcoin hub of the world. This is significant because NYC's economy compared to countries around the world would put it approximately in the top 10 or so biggest economies.
The volatility in crypto prices/value will continue to prevent them from being widely accepted as a form of payment. Imagine the headache at McDonalds in trying to keep up with changing value if it accepted bitcoin. Prices in bitcoin would be continuously fluctuating.
You can do currency conversions instantly. Canadian visitors use their Canadian credit cards
The value of bitcoins depends on various ecomonic factors. You can redeem bitcoins from a currency at any time, but you will lose money on commissions.
Comments
Or the payment of governmental debt...
Wow. Just wow.
It has a nice TrueView too!
It looks a little out of focus.
That's the trick with holograms.
The tiny "BITCOIN" under the B logo is very sharp.
If I buy the coin, crack it out of the holder and discover that the password under the hologram doesn't work, I wonder if Great Collections would refund my $1.6 M? Or if I'm just out the money. Maybe they would pass the buck to PCGS since PCGS certified the coin as authentic. Though "authentic" doesn't necessarily mean that the password hasn't already been used. Plus PCGS could refuse to honor the guarantee since the coin was cracked out. I could see litigation where everyone loses.
Maybe I'm over-estimating the risk since I'm not familiar with these things.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
If you crack it out and try to use it, you might want to have a PCGS representative present, especially for the $50 million one.
The new mayor of NYC is taking his first few paychecks in bitcoin. More importantly, he wants to make NYC the bitcoin hub of the world. This is significant because NYC's economy compared to countries around the world would put it approximately in the top 10 or so biggest economies.
over estimating risk in financial matters is a good thing. It's the under estimating that gets you in trouble.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Note that ONLY 10 EXIST!
If BTC sticks around, what is this worth as an artifact of the origins of the cryptos?
The item under discussion is also a rare token.
The volatility in crypto prices/value will continue to prevent them from being widely accepted as a form of payment. Imagine the headache at McDonalds in trying to keep up with changing value if it accepted bitcoin. Prices in bitcoin would be continuously fluctuating.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
I never considered that. I wonder if they would do it? Maybe that is how they handle other high-value oddities and major coins.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
The price paid is in US dollars, and the fractional bitcoins are transferred to match that amount at that exact moment. The merchant could instantly convert the Bitcoin to US dollars if they so desired.
What their transaction fee is, I don’t know.
They did this for @cardinal's 1794 Specimen dollar, now owned by @tradedollarnut:
See more here:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12672685/#Comment_12672685
Today they are an investment vehicle at best and a speculation vehicle at worst.
There are countries that want to use Bitcoin, but they may be countries whose own currencies can fluctuate even more than Bitcoin.
Cart horse.
The more they get used for commerce, the more stable the price will be.
You can do currency conversions instantly. Canadian visitors use their Canadian credit cards
The value of bitcoins depends on various ecomonic factors. You can redeem bitcoins from a currency at any time, but you will lose money on commissions.