I could cite studies circa 2010 that said millennials were all moving to the cities and the suburbs would die. Didn’t happen. Generations change as they age. You haven’t proven your thesis or shown any actual data regarding numismatics.
Actually, I supplied a lot of data. You are just predisposed to reject all of it.
If I include the fact that the average age of coin collectors is 60, you will argue that they are failing to count the instagram collectors.
If I point to the demographics of the ANA or coin club, you will argue (without proof) that millenials are just eschewing clubs not coins.
The simple, undisputed FACT is that will be fewer millennial coin collectors UNLESS the collector numbers are HIGHER in the millennial group. This is for the simple reason that there are fewer millennials. Colleges are shrinking for this reason and may soon be disappearing in large numbers. Why do you think it is different for coins.
Do I know that this is a long-term problem? No. But I wish to god that all the magical thinking around here would give way to a cold consideration of the POSSIBILITY that trends are real and reflect a challenge. Pretending that those challenges don't exist does no one any favor. As things stand NOW, millenials and Gen Z do not collect artifacts, are more interested in experiences than possessions. Will that change as they age? Maybe. But, you have to admit that it also may NOT.
Are there fewer millenials relative to past generations world wide, or just in the US? Overall, population is still going up.
Mostly in the US. But the Boomer generations was a gigantic population bubble. And this is the US coin forum. Poor people in undeveloped countries do not collect anything much less US coins.
Yes, but all the US needs to do to increase population is adjust immigration and those people's incomes will increase. If the US can be seen as the land of opportunity as it was for previous generations and those people value American history, they will will be more likely to collect US coins.
Regarding your post on US colleges, it's interesting to note many US colleges are already dependent on, and reserve seats for, foreign students because they tend to pay full tuition rates.
Yes, we do.
But when a Nicaraguan student grows up, do you think they collect US coins or Nicaraguan coins?
US.
Again, any outcome is possible. I'm not sure why, however, everyone just wants to assume that trends continue. Is it coincidental that the boom in coin prices occurred when baby boomers came of age in a boning post war economy? Neither of those trends is continuing.
Lol. Nicaraguan.
It's not true. I know from personal experience
Anecdote. Lol
Why is a US-Mexico soccer game in Los Angeles a home game for Mexico?
I'm waiting for your study
People tend to collect their heritage not someone else's.
The thing about America, that it is their heritage.
Look at German-Americans which celebrated German-American Day from 1883 to 1914 when they were forced to stop celebrating and even speaking their language in America, to when it was celebrated again from 1983 forward.
The international students you were referring to tend to go home. The reason they pay full tuition is often because their government pays it for them. They are not necessarily immigrants.
You're responding to my post on German-Americans who have been here since 1683. Do they tend to go home? I know German-born immigrants in America today who did not go back to Germany after their degree.
The people who attended graduate school in the US I know, primarily want to stay in the US. The ones that leave do so primarily because they don't get a visa. For example, I know of an Apple engineer who had to leave the US after failing to get a H1B lottery 3 times. Ask him where he'd rather be.
Please cite your study
I'm referring to the current international students you mentioned earlier.
I've quoted a dozen studies. Someone posit a study demonstrating the opposite.
I got that, which is why I responded to that part as well, but I am curious to hear your thoughts on the part you quoted regarding German-Americans over the past few centuries. Any thoughts?
Given your earlier posted studies, I imagine you'd be interested in supporting this point as well. This is interesting to me so I hope you can find one to support your supposition.
A case can be made that numismatics is and has been a universal pastime through the ages.
just as ancient Greek and Roman coins are accumulated for a connection to those contributions to human development, so will the quest for a connection to the genesis of American ideals and values.
There may be a trend for less consumption and accumulation as a whole, but there will always be a place for reflection and symbolism and numismatics is a prime activity for historical and political contemplation.
We are in control of the destiny of numismatics, it will be up to our current generations to apply the importance to future generations of not only the history of coinage but how it relates to past, current and future political, social and economic decision making.
So I think we should be bullish on the future of the hobby.
I could cite studies circa 2010 that said millennials were all moving to the cities and the suburbs would die. Didn’t happen. Generations change as they age. You haven’t proven your thesis or shown any actual data regarding numismatics.
Actually, I supplied a lot of data. You are just predisposed to reject all of it.
If I include the fact that the average age of coin collectors is 60, you will argue that they are failing to count the instagram collectors.
If I point to the demographics of the ANA or coin club, you will argue (without proof) that millenials are just eschewing clubs not coins.
The simple, undisputed FACT is that will be fewer millennial coin collectors UNLESS the collector numbers are HIGHER in the millennial group. This is for the simple reason that there are fewer millennials. Colleges are shrinking for this reason and may soon be disappearing in large numbers. Why do you think it is different for coins.
Do I know that this is a long-term problem? No. But I wish to god that all the magical thinking around here would give way to a cold consideration of the POSSIBILITY that trends are real and reflect a challenge. Pretending that those challenges don't exist does no one any favor. As things stand NOW, millenials and Gen Z do not collect artifacts, are more interested in experiences than possessions. Will that change as they age? Maybe. But, you have to admit that it also may NOT.
Are there fewer millenials relative to past generations world wide, or just in the US? Overall, population is still going up.
Mostly in the US. But the Boomer generations was a gigantic population bubble. And this is the US coin forum. Poor people in undeveloped countries do not collect anything much less US coins.
Yes, but all the US needs to do to increase population is adjust immigration and those people's incomes will increase. If the US can be seen as the land of opportunity as it was for previous generations and those people value American history, they will will be more likely to collect US coins.
Regarding your post on US colleges, it's interesting to note many US colleges are already dependent on, and reserve seats for, foreign students because they tend to pay full tuition rates.
Yes, we do.
But when a Nicaraguan student grows up, do you think they collect US coins or Nicaraguan coins?
US.
Again, any outcome is possible. I'm not sure why, however, everyone just wants to assume that trends continue. Is it coincidental that the boom in coin prices occurred when baby boomers came of age in a boning post war economy? Neither of those trends is continuing.
Lol. Nicaraguan.
It's not true. I know from personal experience
Anecdote. Lol
Why is a US-Mexico soccer game in Los Angeles a home game for Mexico?
I'm waiting for your study
People tend to collect their heritage not someone else's.
The thing about America, that it is their heritage.
Look at German-Americans which celebrated German-American Day from 1883 to 1914 when they were forced to stop celebrating and even speaking their language in America, to when it was celebrated again from 1983 forward.
The international students you were referring to tend to go home. The reason they pay full tuition is often because their government pays it for them. They are not necessarily immigrants.
You're responding to my post on German-Americans who have been here since 1683. Do they tend to go home? I know German-born immigrants in America today who did not go back to Germany after their degree.
The people who attended graduate school in the US I know, primarily want to stay in the US. The ones that leave do so primarily because they don't get a visa. For example, I know of an Apple engineer who had to leave the US after failing to get a H1B lottery 3 times. Ask him where he'd rather be.
Please cite your study
I'm referring to the current international students you mentioned earlier.
I've quoted a dozen studies. Someone posit a study demonstrating the opposite.
I got that, which is why I responded to that part as well, but I am curious to hear your thoughts on the part you quoted regarding German-Americans over the past few centuries. Any thoughts?
Given your earlier posted studies, I imagine you'd be interested in supporting this point as well. This is interesting to me so I hope you can find one to support your supposition.
At the risk of it becoming political, it used to be that immigrants entered the "melting pot". The whole idea of a melting point is now considered to be a "microagression" or an "identity related aggression".
I could cite studies circa 2010 that said millennials were all moving to the cities and the suburbs would die. Didn’t happen. Generations change as they age. You haven’t proven your thesis or shown any actual data regarding numismatics.
Actually, I supplied a lot of data. You are just predisposed to reject all of it.
If I include the fact that the average age of coin collectors is 60, you will argue that they are failing to count the instagram collectors.
If I point to the demographics of the ANA or coin club, you will argue (without proof) that millenials are just eschewing clubs not coins.
The simple, undisputed FACT is that will be fewer millennial coin collectors UNLESS the collector numbers are HIGHER in the millennial group. This is for the simple reason that there are fewer millennials. Colleges are shrinking for this reason and may soon be disappearing in large numbers. Why do you think it is different for coins.
Do I know that this is a long-term problem? No. But I wish to god that all the magical thinking around here would give way to a cold consideration of the POSSIBILITY that trends are real and reflect a challenge. Pretending that those challenges don't exist does no one any favor. As things stand NOW, millenials and Gen Z do not collect artifacts, are more interested in experiences than possessions. Will that change as they age? Maybe. But, you have to admit that it also may NOT.
Are there fewer millenials relative to past generations world wide, or just in the US? Overall, population is still going up.
Mostly in the US. But the Boomer generations was a gigantic population bubble. And this is the US coin forum. Poor people in undeveloped countries do not collect anything much less US coins.
Yes, but all the US needs to do to increase population is adjust immigration and those people's incomes will increase. If the US can be seen as the land of opportunity as it was for previous generations and those people value American history, they will will be more likely to collect US coins.
Regarding your post on US colleges, it's interesting to note many US colleges are already dependent on, and reserve seats for, foreign students because they tend to pay full tuition rates.
Yes, we do.
But when a Nicaraguan student grows up, do you think they collect US coins or Nicaraguan coins?
US.
Again, any outcome is possible. I'm not sure why, however, everyone just wants to assume that trends continue. Is it coincidental that the boom in coin prices occurred when baby boomers came of age in a boning post war economy? Neither of those trends is continuing.
Lol. Nicaraguan.
It's not true. I know from personal experience
Anecdote. Lol
Why is a US-Mexico soccer game in Los Angeles a home game for Mexico?
I'm waiting for your study
People tend to collect their heritage not someone else's.
The thing about America, that it is their heritage.
Look at German-Americans which celebrated German-American Day from 1883 to 1914 when they were forced to stop celebrating and even speaking their language in America, to when it was celebrated again from 1983 forward.
The international students you were referring to tend to go home. The reason they pay full tuition is often because their government pays it for them. They are not necessarily immigrants.
You're responding to my post on German-Americans who have been here since 1683. Do they tend to go home? I know German-born immigrants in America today who did not go back to Germany after their degree.
The people who attended graduate school in the US I know, primarily want to stay in the US. The ones that leave do so primarily because they don't get a visa. For example, I know of an Apple engineer who had to leave the US after failing to get a H1B lottery 3 times. Ask him where he'd rather be.
Please cite your study
I'm referring to the current international students you mentioned earlier.
I've quoted a dozen studies. Someone posit a study demonstrating the opposite.
I got that, which is why I responded to that part as well, but I am curious to hear your thoughts on the part you quoted regarding German-Americans over the past few centuries. Any thoughts?
Given your earlier posted studies, I imagine you'd be interested in supporting this point as well. This is interesting to me so I hope you can find one to support your supposition.
At the risk of it becoming political, it used to be that immigrants entered the "melting pot". The whole idea of a melting point is now considered to be a "microagression" or an "identity related aggression".
Study?
I’ve read that one reason the melting pot works, even today, is that immigrants are allowed to get jobs in the US. Compare the situation in the US with say France.
I could cite studies circa 2010 that said millennials were all moving to the cities and the suburbs would die. Didn’t happen. Generations change as they age. You haven’t proven your thesis or shown any actual data regarding numismatics.
Actually, I supplied a lot of data. You are just predisposed to reject all of it.
If I include the fact that the average age of coin collectors is 60, you will argue that they are failing to count the instagram collectors.
If I point to the demographics of the ANA or coin club, you will argue (without proof) that millenials are just eschewing clubs not coins.
The simple, undisputed FACT is that will be fewer millennial coin collectors UNLESS the collector numbers are HIGHER in the millennial group. This is for the simple reason that there are fewer millennials. Colleges are shrinking for this reason and may soon be disappearing in large numbers. Why do you think it is different for coins.
Do I know that this is a long-term problem? No. But I wish to god that all the magical thinking around here would give way to a cold consideration of the POSSIBILITY that trends are real and reflect a challenge. Pretending that those challenges don't exist does no one any favor. As things stand NOW, millenials and Gen Z do not collect artifacts, are more interested in experiences than possessions. Will that change as they age? Maybe. But, you have to admit that it also may NOT.
Are there fewer millenials relative to past generations world wide, or just in the US? Overall, population is still going up.
Mostly in the US. But the Boomer generations was a gigantic population bubble. And this is the US coin forum. Poor people in undeveloped countries do not collect anything much less US coins.
Yes, but all the US needs to do to increase population is adjust immigration and those people's incomes will increase. If the US can be seen as the land of opportunity as it was for previous generations and those people value American history, they will will be more likely to collect US coins.
Regarding your post on US colleges, it's interesting to note many US colleges are already dependent on, and reserve seats for, foreign students because they tend to pay full tuition rates.
Yes, we do.
But when a Nicaraguan student grows up, do you think they collect US coins or Nicaraguan coins?
US.
Again, any outcome is possible. I'm not sure why, however, everyone just wants to assume that trends continue. Is it coincidental that the boom in coin prices occurred when baby boomers came of age in a boning post war economy? Neither of those trends is continuing.
Lol. Nicaraguan.
It's not true. I know from personal experience
Anecdote. Lol
Why is a US-Mexico soccer game in Los Angeles a home game for Mexico?
I'm waiting for your study
People tend to collect their heritage not someone else's.
The thing about America, that it is their heritage.
Look at German-Americans which celebrated German-American Day from 1883 to 1914 when they were forced to stop celebrating and even speaking their language in America, to when it was celebrated again from 1983 forward.
The international students you were referring to tend to go home. The reason they pay full tuition is often because their government pays it for them. They are not necessarily immigrants.
You're responding to my post on German-Americans who have been here since 1683. Do they tend to go home? I know German-born immigrants in America today who did not go back to Germany after their degree.
The people who attended graduate school in the US I know, primarily want to stay in the US. The ones that leave do so primarily because they don't get a visa. For example, I know of an Apple engineer who had to leave the US after failing to get a H1B lottery 3 times. Ask him where he'd rather be.
Please cite your study
I'm referring to the current international students you mentioned earlier.
I've quoted a dozen studies. Someone posit a study demonstrating the opposite.
I got that, which is why I responded to that part as well, but I am curious to hear your thoughts on the part you quoted regarding German-Americans over the past few centuries. Any thoughts?
Given your earlier posted studies, I imagine you'd be interested in supporting this point as well. This is interesting to me so I hope you can find one to support your supposition.
At the risk of it becoming political, it used to be that immigrants entered the "melting pot". The whole idea of a melting point is now considered to be a "microagression" or an "identity related aggression".
Study?
I’ve read that one reason the melting pot works, even today, is that immigrants are allowed to get jobs in the US. Compare the situation in the US with say France.
There are studies that show a certain amount of assimilation by the second native generation. But those are based on past norms.
I know a lot of collectors, and you probably do also, who collect their heritage. I buy Sicilian coins and I don't even speak Italian.
I could cite studies circa 2010 that said millennials were all moving to the cities and the suburbs would die. Didn’t happen. Generations change as they age. You haven’t proven your thesis or shown any actual data regarding numismatics.
Actually, I supplied a lot of data. You are just predisposed to reject all of it.
If I include the fact that the average age of coin collectors is 60, you will argue that they are failing to count the instagram collectors.
If I point to the demographics of the ANA or coin club, you will argue (without proof) that millenials are just eschewing clubs not coins.
The simple, undisputed FACT is that will be fewer millennial coin collectors UNLESS the collector numbers are HIGHER in the millennial group. This is for the simple reason that there are fewer millennials. Colleges are shrinking for this reason and may soon be disappearing in large numbers. Why do you think it is different for coins.
Do I know that this is a long-term problem? No. But I wish to god that all the magical thinking around here would give way to a cold consideration of the POSSIBILITY that trends are real and reflect a challenge. Pretending that those challenges don't exist does no one any favor. As things stand NOW, millenials and Gen Z do not collect artifacts, are more interested in experiences than possessions. Will that change as they age? Maybe. But, you have to admit that it also may NOT.
Are there fewer millenials relative to past generations world wide, or just in the US? Overall, population is still going up.
Mostly in the US. But the Boomer generations was a gigantic population bubble. And this is the US coin forum. Poor people in undeveloped countries do not collect anything much less US coins.
Yes, but all the US needs to do to increase population is adjust immigration and those people's incomes will increase. If the US can be seen as the land of opportunity as it was for previous generations and those people value American history, they will will be more likely to collect US coins.
Regarding your post on US colleges, it's interesting to note many US colleges are already dependent on, and reserve seats for, foreign students because they tend to pay full tuition rates.
Yes, we do.
But when a Nicaraguan student grows up, do you think they collect US coins or Nicaraguan coins?
US.
Again, any outcome is possible. I'm not sure why, however, everyone just wants to assume that trends continue. Is it coincidental that the boom in coin prices occurred when baby boomers came of age in a boning post war economy? Neither of those trends is continuing.
Lol. Nicaraguan.
It's not true. I know from personal experience
Anecdote. Lol
Why is a US-Mexico soccer game in Los Angeles a home game for Mexico?
I'm waiting for your study
People tend to collect their heritage not someone else's.
The thing about America, that it is their heritage.
Look at German-Americans which celebrated German-American Day from 1883 to 1914 when they were forced to stop celebrating and even speaking their language in America, to when it was celebrated again from 1983 forward.
The international students you were referring to tend to go home. The reason they pay full tuition is often because their government pays it for them. They are not necessarily immigrants.
You're responding to my post on German-Americans who have been here since 1683. Do they tend to go home? I know German-born immigrants in America today who did not go back to Germany after their degree.
The people who attended graduate school in the US I know, primarily want to stay in the US. The ones that leave do so primarily because they don't get a visa. For example, I know of an Apple engineer who had to leave the US after failing to get a H1B lottery 3 times. Ask him where he'd rather be.
Please cite your study
I'm referring to the current international students you mentioned earlier.
I've quoted a dozen studies. Someone posit a study demonstrating the opposite.
I got that, which is why I responded to that part as well, but I am curious to hear your thoughts on the part you quoted regarding German-Americans over the past few centuries. Any thoughts?
Given your earlier posted studies, I imagine you'd be interested in supporting this point as well. This is interesting to me so I hope you can find one to support your supposition.
At the risk of it becoming political, it used to be that immigrants entered the "melting pot". The whole idea of a melting point is now considered to be a "microagression" or an "identity related aggression".
Study?
I’ve read that one reason the melting pot works, even today, is that immigrants are allowed to get jobs in the US. Compare the situation in the US with say France.
There are studies that show a certain amount of assimilation by the second native generation. But those are based on past norms.
I know a lot of collectors, and you probably do also, who collect their heritage. I buy Sicilian coins and I don't even speak Italian.
I’ve heard good integration stories in the US even today. For example, in the US many Muslim immigrants are busy working and making a living while in France they aren’t allowed to get jobs and certain areas have 40% unemployment due to lack of job opportunities. Also look at the Dreamers. If they are learning English, getting a higher education, and chasing the American Dream, that seems to be pretty good integration to me. Many of them can’t even relate to the countries their parents came from very well.
It’s cool that you buy Sicilian coins. I’m curious what percentage of value of your collection is Sicilian vs US? I’ll say that my collection is over 99% US by value and by item count. It helps that I was born in the US, have lived here my entire life, and have a hard time reading text on coins from my parents’ country 😉
I could cite studies circa 2010 that said millennials were all moving to the cities and the suburbs would die. Didn’t happen. Generations change as they age. You haven’t proven your thesis or shown any actual data regarding numismatics.
Actually, I supplied a lot of data. You are just predisposed to reject all of it.
If I include the fact that the average age of coin collectors is 60, you will argue that they are failing to count the instagram collectors.
If I point to the demographics of the ANA or coin club, you will argue (without proof) that millenials are just eschewing clubs not coins.
The simple, undisputed FACT is that will be fewer millennial coin collectors UNLESS the collector numbers are HIGHER in the millennial group. This is for the simple reason that there are fewer millennials. Colleges are shrinking for this reason and may soon be disappearing in large numbers. Why do you think it is different for coins.
Do I know that this is a long-term problem? No. But I wish to god that all the magical thinking around here would give way to a cold consideration of the POSSIBILITY that trends are real and reflect a challenge. Pretending that those challenges don't exist does no one any favor. As things stand NOW, millenials and Gen Z do not collect artifacts, are more interested in experiences than possessions. Will that change as they age? Maybe. But, you have to admit that it also may NOT.
Are there fewer millenials relative to past generations world wide, or just in the US? Overall, population is still going up.
Mostly in the US. But the Boomer generations was a gigantic population bubble. And this is the US coin forum. Poor people in undeveloped countries do not collect anything much less US coins.
Yes, but all the US needs to do to increase population is adjust immigration and those people's incomes will increase. If the US can be seen as the land of opportunity as it was for previous generations and those people value American history, they will will be more likely to collect US coins.
Regarding your post on US colleges, it's interesting to note many US colleges are already dependent on, and reserve seats for, foreign students because they tend to pay full tuition rates.
Yes, we do.
But when a Nicaraguan student grows up, do you think they collect US coins or Nicaraguan coins?
US.
Again, any outcome is possible. I'm not sure why, however, everyone just wants to assume that trends continue. Is it coincidental that the boom in coin prices occurred when baby boomers came of age in a boning post war economy? Neither of those trends is continuing.
Lol. Nicaraguan.
It's not true. I know from personal experience
Anecdote. Lol
Why is a US-Mexico soccer game in Los Angeles a home game for Mexico?
I'm waiting for your study
People tend to collect their heritage not someone else's.
The thing about America, that it is their heritage.
Look at German-Americans which celebrated German-American Day from 1883 to 1914 when they were forced to stop celebrating and even speaking their language in America, to when it was celebrated again from 1983 forward.
The international students you were referring to tend to go home. The reason they pay full tuition is often because their government pays it for them. They are not necessarily immigrants.
You're responding to my post on German-Americans who have been here since 1683. Do they tend to go home? I know German-born immigrants in America today who did not go back to Germany after their degree.
The people who attended graduate school in the US I know, primarily want to stay in the US. The ones that leave do so primarily because they don't get a visa. For example, I know of an Apple engineer who had to leave the US after failing to get a H1B lottery 3 times. Ask him where he'd rather be.
Please cite your study
I'm referring to the current international students you mentioned earlier.
I've quoted a dozen studies. Someone posit a study demonstrating the opposite.
I got that, which is why I responded to that part as well, but I am curious to hear your thoughts on the part you quoted regarding German-Americans over the past few centuries. Any thoughts?
Given your earlier posted studies, I imagine you'd be interested in supporting this point as well. This is interesting to me so I hope you can find one to support your supposition.
At the risk of it becoming political, it used to be that immigrants entered the "melting pot". The whole idea of a melting point is now considered to be a "microagression" or an "identity related aggression".
Study?
I’ve read that one reason the melting pot works, even today, is that immigrants are allowed to get jobs in the US. Compare the situation in the US with say France.
There are studies that show a certain amount of assimilation by the second native generation. But those are based on past norms.
I know a lot of collectors, and you probably do also, who collect their heritage. I buy Sicilian coins and I don't even speak Italian.
I’ve heard good integration stories in the US even today. For example, in the US many Muslim immigrants are busy working and making a living while in France they aren’t allowed to get jobs and certain areas have 40% unemployment due to lack of job opportunities. Also look at the Dreamers. If they are learning English, getting a higher education, and chasing the American Dream, that seems to be pretty good integration to me. Many of them can’t even relate to the countries their parents came from very well.
It’s cool that you buy Sicilian coins. I’m curious what percentage of value of your collection is Sicilian vs US? I’ll say that my collection is over 99% US by value and by item count.
I have very little US in my personal collection. The largest piece of my collection is Tibetan.
I could cite studies circa 2010 that said millennials were all moving to the cities and the suburbs would die. Didn’t happen. Generations change as they age. You haven’t proven your thesis or shown any actual data regarding numismatics.
Actually, I supplied a lot of data. You are just predisposed to reject all of it.
If I include the fact that the average age of coin collectors is 60, you will argue that they are failing to count the instagram collectors.
If I point to the demographics of the ANA or coin club, you will argue (without proof) that millenials are just eschewing clubs not coins.
The simple, undisputed FACT is that will be fewer millennial coin collectors UNLESS the collector numbers are HIGHER in the millennial group. This is for the simple reason that there are fewer millennials. Colleges are shrinking for this reason and may soon be disappearing in large numbers. Why do you think it is different for coins.
Do I know that this is a long-term problem? No. But I wish to god that all the magical thinking around here would give way to a cold consideration of the POSSIBILITY that trends are real and reflect a challenge. Pretending that those challenges don't exist does no one any favor. As things stand NOW, millenials and Gen Z do not collect artifacts, are more interested in experiences than possessions. Will that change as they age? Maybe. But, you have to admit that it also may NOT.
Are there fewer millenials relative to past generations world wide, or just in the US? Overall, population is still going up.
Mostly in the US. But the Boomer generations was a gigantic population bubble. And this is the US coin forum. Poor people in undeveloped countries do not collect anything much less US coins.
Yes, but all the US needs to do to increase population is adjust immigration and those people's incomes will increase. If the US can be seen as the land of opportunity as it was for previous generations and those people value American history, they will will be more likely to collect US coins.
Regarding your post on US colleges, it's interesting to note many US colleges are already dependent on, and reserve seats for, foreign students because they tend to pay full tuition rates.
Yes, we do.
But when a Nicaraguan student grows up, do you think they collect US coins or Nicaraguan coins?
US.
Again, any outcome is possible. I'm not sure why, however, everyone just wants to assume that trends continue. Is it coincidental that the boom in coin prices occurred when baby boomers came of age in a boning post war economy? Neither of those trends is continuing.
Lol. Nicaraguan.
It's not true. I know from personal experience
Anecdote. Lol
Why is a US-Mexico soccer game in Los Angeles a home game for Mexico?
I'm waiting for your study
People tend to collect their heritage not someone else's.
The thing about America, that it is their heritage.
Look at German-Americans which celebrated German-American Day from 1883 to 1914 when they were forced to stop celebrating and even speaking their language in America, to when it was celebrated again from 1983 forward.
The international students you were referring to tend to go home. The reason they pay full tuition is often because their government pays it for them. They are not necessarily immigrants.
You're responding to my post on German-Americans who have been here since 1683. Do they tend to go home? I know German-born immigrants in America today who did not go back to Germany after their degree.
The people who attended graduate school in the US I know, primarily want to stay in the US. The ones that leave do so primarily because they don't get a visa. For example, I know of an Apple engineer who had to leave the US after failing to get a H1B lottery 3 times. Ask him where he'd rather be.
Please cite your study
I'm referring to the current international students you mentioned earlier.
I've quoted a dozen studies. Someone posit a study demonstrating the opposite.
I got that, which is why I responded to that part as well, but I am curious to hear your thoughts on the part you quoted regarding German-Americans over the past few centuries. Any thoughts?
Given your earlier posted studies, I imagine you'd be interested in supporting this point as well. This is interesting to me so I hope you can find one to support your supposition.
At the risk of it becoming political, it used to be that immigrants entered the "melting pot". The whole idea of a melting point is now considered to be a "microagression" or an "identity related aggression".
Study?
I’ve read that one reason the melting pot works, even today, is that immigrants are allowed to get jobs in the US. Compare the situation in the US with say France.
There are studies that show a certain amount of assimilation by the second native generation. But those are based on past norms.
I know a lot of collectors, and you probably do also, who collect their heritage. I buy Sicilian coins and I don't even speak Italian.
I’ve heard good integration stories in the US even today. For example, in the US many Muslim immigrants are busy working and making a living while in France they aren’t allowed to get jobs and certain areas have 40% unemployment due to lack of job opportunities. Also look at the Dreamers. If they are learning English, getting a higher education, and chasing the American Dream, that seems to be pretty good integration to me. Many of them can’t even relate to the countries their parents came from very well.
It’s cool that you buy Sicilian coins. I’m curious what percentage of value of your collection is Sicilian vs US? I’ll say that my collection is over 99% US by value and by item count.
I have very little US in my personal collection. The largest piece of my collection is Tibetan.
Is your heritage Italian? Did your heritage have a large of an impact on your collecting?
It is interesting that my collection is virtually all US while you have very little. How many generations has your family been in the US? I’m the first generation born in the US.
I could cite studies circa 2010 that said millennials were all moving to the cities and the suburbs would die. Didn’t happen. Generations change as they age. You haven’t proven your thesis or shown any actual data regarding numismatics.
Actually, I supplied a lot of data. You are just predisposed to reject all of it.
If I include the fact that the average age of coin collectors is 60, you will argue that they are failing to count the instagram collectors.
If I point to the demographics of the ANA or coin club, you will argue (without proof) that millenials are just eschewing clubs not coins.
The simple, undisputed FACT is that will be fewer millennial coin collectors UNLESS the collector numbers are HIGHER in the millennial group. This is for the simple reason that there are fewer millennials. Colleges are shrinking for this reason and may soon be disappearing in large numbers. Why do you think it is different for coins.
Do I know that this is a long-term problem? No. But I wish to god that all the magical thinking around here would give way to a cold consideration of the POSSIBILITY that trends are real and reflect a challenge. Pretending that those challenges don't exist does no one any favor. As things stand NOW, millenials and Gen Z do not collect artifacts, are more interested in experiences than possessions. Will that change as they age? Maybe. But, you have to admit that it also may NOT.
Are there fewer millenials relative to past generations world wide, or just in the US? Overall, population is still going up.
Mostly in the US. But the Boomer generations was a gigantic population bubble. And this is the US coin forum. Poor people in undeveloped countries do not collect anything much less US coins.
Yes, but all the US needs to do to increase population is adjust immigration and those people's incomes will increase. If the US can be seen as the land of opportunity as it was for previous generations and those people value American history, they will will be more likely to collect US coins.
Regarding your post on US colleges, it's interesting to note many US colleges are already dependent on, and reserve seats for, foreign students because they tend to pay full tuition rates.
Yes, we do.
But when a Nicaraguan student grows up, do you think they collect US coins or Nicaraguan coins?
US.
Again, any outcome is possible. I'm not sure why, however, everyone just wants to assume that trends continue. Is it coincidental that the boom in coin prices occurred when baby boomers came of age in a boning post war economy? Neither of those trends is continuing.
Lol. Nicaraguan.
It's not true. I know from personal experience
Anecdote. Lol
Why is a US-Mexico soccer game in Los Angeles a home game for Mexico?
I'm waiting for your study
People tend to collect their heritage not someone else's.
The thing about America, that it is their heritage.
Look at German-Americans which celebrated German-American Day from 1883 to 1914 when they were forced to stop celebrating and even speaking their language in America, to when it was celebrated again from 1983 forward.
The international students you were referring to tend to go home. The reason they pay full tuition is often because their government pays it for them. They are not necessarily immigrants.
You're responding to my post on German-Americans who have been here since 1683. Do they tend to go home? I know German-born immigrants in America today who did not go back to Germany after their degree.
The people who attended graduate school in the US I know, primarily want to stay in the US. The ones that leave do so primarily because they don't get a visa. For example, I know of an Apple engineer who had to leave the US after failing to get a H1B lottery 3 times. Ask him where he'd rather be.
Please cite your study
I'm referring to the current international students you mentioned earlier.
I've quoted a dozen studies. Someone posit a study demonstrating the opposite.
I got that, which is why I responded to that part as well, but I am curious to hear your thoughts on the part you quoted regarding German-Americans over the past few centuries. Any thoughts?
Given your earlier posted studies, I imagine you'd be interested in supporting this point as well. This is interesting to me so I hope you can find one to support your supposition.
At the risk of it becoming political, it used to be that immigrants entered the "melting pot". The whole idea of a melting point is now considered to be a "microagression" or an "identity related aggression".
Study?
I’ve read that one reason the melting pot works, even today, is that immigrants are allowed to get jobs in the US. Compare the situation in the US with say France.
There are studies that show a certain amount of assimilation by the second native generation. But those are based on past norms.
I know a lot of collectors, and you probably do also, who collect their heritage. I buy Sicilian coins and I don't even speak Italian.
I’ve heard good integration stories in the US even today. For example, in the US many Muslim immigrants are busy working and making a living while in France they aren’t allowed to get jobs and certain areas have 40% unemployment due to lack of job opportunities. Also look at the Dreamers. If they are learning English, getting a higher education, and chasing the American Dream, that seems to be pretty good integration to me. Many of them can’t even relate to the countries their parents came from very well.
It’s cool that you buy Sicilian coins. I’m curious what percentage of value of your collection is Sicilian vs US? I’ll say that my collection is over 99% US by value and by item count.
I have very little US in my personal collection. The largest piece of my collection is Tibetan.
Is your heritage Italian? Did your heritage have a large of an impact on your collecting?
It is interesting that my collection is virtually all US while you have very little. How many generations has your family been in the US? I’m the first generation born in the US.
I'm 2nd or 3rd depending on which ancestor. That background is the only reason I buy Sicilian coins.
@cameonut2011 said:
Millennials came to age during some of the most tumultuous economic times since the Great Depression. Economically it is one of the poorest generations and for the first time in recent history, a generation is poorer off than its parent generation. Subsequent generations might not do much better. Unless things improve for millennials, all expensive hobbies are in trouble.
I always puzzles me when a millennial complains about money yet has 10 grand worth of ink on their body. Life is about choices.
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
@cameonut2011 said:
Millennials came to age during some of the most tumultuous economic times since the Great Depression. Economically it is one of the poorest generations and for the first time in recent history, a generation is poorer off than its parent generation. Subsequent generations might not do much better. Unless things improve for millennials, all expensive hobbies are in trouble.
I always puzzles me when a millennial complains about money yet has 10 grand worth of ink on their body. Life is about choices.
That is one of those anecdotes that doesn't really illuminate the facts. By any measure, income being the key one, millennials (as a group) do have real struggles. Finding one person with 10 grand in ink obfuscates the issue a bit.
Most of the younger collectors I know, and I know a LOT of them, can be classified into three main categories;
World Coin Collectors. Better bang for your buck than US, and it's not even close.
Toner Collectors. Pretty coins with above average eye appeal have been hot, hot, hot over the past decade and they see that trend.
Plastic Collectors. Old holders rise in popularity has also drawn in the younger crowd who don't mind grinding and playing the plastic/bean game.
From what I've seen, younger collectors in this hobby are focused on history and wealth preservation, and tend to lean more educated and intelligent than older collectors.
You could make an argument there's a fourth, even larger than those three combined and doubled...
Silver Stackers.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
If you want to help bring new young people into the coin world, give them a nice silver coin with a story to go along with it and the future prospect of increasing value. I've personally handed out to 5 different young people, some that worked for me, teens to 20's, silver Libertad's and a Morgan's. I have also tipped certain people I had regular services with, haircut, etc., with many different silver coins over time.
@Golden1 said:
If you want to help bring new young people into the coin world, give them a nice silver coin with a story to go along with it and the future prospect of increasing value. I've personally handed out to 5 different young people, some that worked for me, teens to 20's, silver Libertad's and a Morgan's. I have also tipped certain people I had regular services with, haircut, etc., with many different silver coins over time.
Just silver is good. I don’t think a story about increasing value is necessary, especially if the probability the piece will actually increase is small.
In the origin stories for Pogue and Simpson, the coins they focused on actually had high returns, which for them excited. So if there’s a story about good returns, there should actually be good returns.
@cameonut2011 said:
Millennials came to age during some of the most tumultuous economic times since the Great Depression. Economically it is one of the poorest generations and for the first time in recent history, a generation is poorer off than its parent generation. Subsequent generations might not do much better. Unless things improve for millennials, all expensive hobbies are in trouble.
I always puzzles me when a millennial complains about money yet has 10 grand worth of ink on their body. Life is about choices.
That is one of those anecdotes that doesn't really illuminate the facts. By any measure, income being the key one, millennials (as a group) do have real struggles. Finding one person with 10 grand in ink obfuscates the issue a bit.
How about if I show dozens? I work with them.
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
@cameonut2011 said:
Millennials came to age during some of the most tumultuous economic times since the Great Depression. Economically it is one of the poorest generations and for the first time in recent history, a generation is poorer off than its parent generation. Subsequent generations might not do much better. Unless things improve for millennials, all expensive hobbies are in trouble.
I always puzzles me when a millennial complains about money yet has 10 grand worth of ink on their body. Life is about choices.
That is one of those anecdotes that doesn't really illuminate the facts. By any measure, income being the key one, millennials (as a group) do have real struggles. Finding one person with 10 grand in ink obfuscates the issue a bit.
How about if I show dozens? I work with them.
The millennials I work with live in some of the most expensive parts of the country.
They tend to live at home with their parents out of school, find a partner and then go directly from living with the parents and saving money to buying a house with their partner. It's a good approach given the high cost of living.
The millennials I work with live in some of the most expensive parts of the country.
They tend to live at home with their parents out of school, find a partner and then go directly from living with the parents and saving money to buying a house with their partner. It's a good approach given the high cost of living.
A millennial I work with just recently started collecting Buffalo nickels. I had a Dansco album with about 15 or 20 common date Buffs in it from G to VF. I knew he would be hard pressed to spare any money for them, so I traded them to him for a few elk steaks and packages of elk burger. I get the pleasure of some elk meat and hopefully he will be come a life long collector to carry the torch.
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
@DelawareDoons said:
Most of the younger collectors I know, and I know a LOT of them, can be classified into three main categories;
World Coin Collectors. Better bang for your buck than US, and it's not even close.
Toner Collectors. Pretty coins with above average eye appeal have been hot, hot, hot over the past decade and they see that trend.
Plastic Collectors. Old holders rise in popularity has also drawn in the younger crowd who don't mind grinding and playing the plastic/bean game.
From what I've seen, younger collectors in this hobby are focused on history and wealth preservation, and tend to lean more educated and intelligent than older collectors.
You could make an argument there's a fourth, even larger than those three combined and doubled...
Silver Stackers.
Those are good approaches. The vast majority of the US coin market is mature and will not see significant price increases Having focus like this reflects a good understanding of the market.
Is your heritage Italian? Did your heritage have a large of an impact on your collecting?
It is interesting that my collection is virtually all US while you have very little. How many generations has your family been in the US? I’m the first generation born in the US.
Mine is and thats why I collect coins designed by Italian immigrants or Italian-American designers... the Peace $ being #1...
At some point I plan on collecting medieval coins from the region my family is from but I havent started that collection yet.
Is your heritage Italian? Did your heritage have a large of an impact on your collecting?
It is interesting that my collection is virtually all US while you have very little. How many generations has your family been in the US? I’m the first generation born in the US.
Mine is and thats why I collect coins designed by Italian immigrants or Italian-American designers... the Peace $ being #1...
At some point I plan on collecting medieval coins from the region my family is from but I havent started that collection yet.
@Zoins said:
Is your heritage Italian? Did your heritage have a large of an impact on your collecting?
It is interesting that my collection is virtually all US while you have very little. How many generations has your family been in the US? I’m the first generation born in the US.
Mine is and thats why I collect coins designed by Italian immigrants or Italian-American designers... the Peace $ being #1...
That's a great way to collect! I'm not Italian but I do collect works by both Antonio de Francisci and Frank Gasparro.
At some point I plan on collecting medieval coins from the region my family is from but I havent started that collection yet.
That sounds very exciting. It's great to have history that goes so far back.
I’d encourage folks to scroll through the responses to this “Are Younger People On Here?” Reddit thread. Most of these collectors aren’t hanging out at the monthly coin show at the VFW. I’m not a dealer but when I need to sell something from my collection I have more success selling quickly on Reddit than other platforms.
a BTC crash would bring the crypto-kiddies over en masse. The rotten nature of the USD will continue to win economic-minded converts (e.g. Mike Maloney vids or Zerohedge reads). Also, I see the third stock market crash of my life ahead and that will shock and awe some into coins. As mentioned influencers or a hit movie that uses a fat stack as a plot driver could do it.
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
I’d encourage folks to scroll through the responses to this “Are Younger People On Here?” Reddit thread. Most of these collectors aren’t hanging out at the monthly coin show at the VFW. I’m not a dealer but when I need to sell something from my collection I have more success selling quickly on Reddit than other platforms.
It was built over 1000 years ago by the Normans. But before that it was a Roman fortification during the Social Wars of 83-81 BC. Lucius Sulla founded the town after the Wars end.
I want to put together a collection of coins featuring Sulla as well as Norman and Spanish medieval coinage from 1050 through the 16th century when the Spanish conquered The Kingdom of Two Sicilies. Once complete, I want to donate the collection to the Archeological Park of Pompeii who now manages the castle so they can establish a museum at the castle.
@hardbitten said:
a BTC crash would bring the crypto-kiddies over en masse. The rotten nature of the USD will continue to win economic-minded converts (e.g. Mike Maloney vids or Zerohedge reads). Also, I see the third stock market crash of my life ahead and that will shock and awe some into coins. As mentioned influencers or a hit movie that uses a fat stack as a plot driver could do it.
A crash in Bitcoin and/or the stock market is going to send people running into numismatics?
It was built over 1000 years ago by the Normans. But before that it was a Roman fortification during the Social Wars of 83-81 BC. Lucius Sulla founded the town after the Wars end.
That is officially awesome. Here's some text from the Castello di Lettere page here:
In the 10th century the Duke of Amalfi commissioned the Castle of Lettere to protect his northern borders. It was part of a network of fortifications that allowed the Amalfitans to control both sides of the Lattari mountains. In fact, the site still offers a wonderful panoramic view, which enabled the control not only of the area from the port of Castellammare to the mouth of the Sarno river and the entire Gulf of Naples, but also the Sarno Valley dominated by Mount Vesuvius, and the stretch from the Sarno mountains to the town of Pagani.
The castle was originally built in the form of a fortified village with multi-storey houses, as proven by documents dating back to 1030 and 1033. The construction of the citadel, now known as the castle, was probably related to the settlement of the feudal lord that commissioned it as his place of residence inside the walls, and as a symbol of his power. The building has a trapezoidal shape with four towers still standing, the highest of which served as a keep. Inside the walls a cathedral was also built, which has been the seat of a bishopric from 987. In the 12th century a bell tower decorated with tarsias made of grey tuff and yellow sandstone forming stars, crosses, and lozenges was built up next to this first building.
It looks like it's now publicly owned or owned by a non-profit?
I want to put together a collection of coins featuring Sulla as well as Norman and Spanish medieval coinage from 1050 through the 16th century when the Spanish conquered The Kingdom of Two Sicilies. Once complete, I want to donate the collection to the Archeological Park of Pompeii who now manages the castle so they can establish a museum at the castle.
That's really cool and a great way to contribute to appreciation for history. Good luck!
It looks like it's now publicly owned or owned by a non-profit?
>
It is owned by the town now. But the Archeological Park in Pompeii manages it.
In the 16th century 3 families (Fattorosi, di Rocco & Cavallaro) bought the castle and the fiefdom from the then current owner Fabio Marchese - they sold off the land and donated the castle to the town since none of them wanted to live in it. It was recently repaired and restored about 10 years ago... Unfortunately, there's really nothing to tour other than the building, so I'm hoping the coin collection will be something that will attract visitors. I also have a small collection of manuscripts I have bought and made copies of that pertain to the town's history archiviodilettere.com
@hardbitten said:
a BTC crash would bring the crypto-kiddies over en masse. The rotten nature of the USD will continue to win economic-minded converts (e.g. Mike Maloney vids or Zerohedge reads). Also, I see the third stock market crash of my life ahead and that will shock and awe some into coins. As mentioned influencers or a hit movie that uses a fat stack as a plot driver could do it.
A crash in Bitcoin and/or the stock market is going to send people running into numismatics?
I think that is a stretch too. In a stock market crash, I’ll be looking for cheap stocks that I think will rebound or real estate if and when the current housing bubble finally busts.
It was built over 1000 years ago by the Normans. But before that it was a Roman fortification during the Social Wars of 83-81 BC. Lucius Sulla founded the town after the Wars end.
I want to put together a collection of coins featuring Sulla as well as Norman and Spanish medieval coinage from 1050 through the 16th century when the Spanish conquered The Kingdom of Two Sicilies. Once complete, I want to donate the collection to the Archeological Park of Pompeii who now manages the castle so they can establish a museum at the castle.
@hardbitten said:
a BTC crash would bring the crypto-kiddies over en masse. The rotten nature of the USD will continue to win economic-minded converts (e.g. Mike Maloney vids or Zerohedge reads). Also, I see the third stock market crash of my life ahead and that will shock and awe some into coins. As mentioned influencers or a hit movie that uses a fat stack as a plot driver could do it.
A crash in Bitcoin and/or the stock market is going to send people running into numismatics?
Magical thinking by people whose natural bias is towards coins.
The coin "discord" server, basically a chat room with smileys and GIFs, that I am on has over 1000 users. The vast majority of them are under 25, it seems. They just mostly focus on buying/selling online, when coin shows are mentioned they usually bemoan the lack of affordable material that interests them at the shows.
This is the link to the aforementioned server. You do have to make an account and verify your email, I believe.
@DelawareDoons said:
The coin "discord" server, basically a chat room with smileys and GIFs, that I am on has over 1000 users. The vast majority of them are under 25, it seems. They just mostly focus on buying/selling online, when coin shows are mentioned they usually bemoan the lack of affordable material that interests them at the shows.
This is the link to the aforementioned server. You do have to make an account and verify your email, I believe.
@DelawareDoons said:
The coin "discord" server, basically a chat room with smileys and GIFs, that I am on has over 1000 users. The vast majority of them are under 25, it seems. They just mostly focus on buying/selling online, when coin shows are mentioned they usually bemoan the lack of affordable material that interests them at the shows.
This is the link to the aforementioned server. You do have to make an account and verify your email, I believe.
Most of them are collectors, but many do sell by nature. I think it's just the way of the younger generation, given how wagees are in this country these days, you have to exploit the means available to you to have the extra income to pursue hobbies like numismatics intensively. This hobby has never been very centralized, and I think that decentralization will continue for the foreseeable future.
There are a few younger legitimate dealers on there, as well as a dozen or so serious vest dealers. There's also a few guys that work for the TPGs and major auction houses.
They have a lot of knowledge. I think it may very well be the best place on the internet to get an opinion about your coins in real time.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I have very little US in my personal collection. The largest piece of my collection is Tibetan.
How did you get started on that?
LOL. It's kind of a happy story which reminds me of my dealer-friend who died last year.
I've always had an interest in Eastern religions and philosophy. When I got back into coins, I was paging through my Pick catalog and noticed a very colorful Tibetan note with a Buddhist theme (Pick-11 100 Srang). A week or so later, I stopped to see my dealer-friend, this was very early in our acquaintance, and sitting on top of his coin trays was a 100 Srang Tibetan P-11. He had just gotten back from a coin show and had tossed it in the case. It was kismet!
I bought it and started to pursue other material. He would go to shows and find whatever he could find. Eventually, I found a woman on eBay who lived in Bhutan who would sell me boxes of inexpensive Tibetan coins. I wouldn't be surprised if I have the largest collection of low cost common Tibet material. LOL.
At that time (around 2000), Tibetan material was relatively cheap. Since then it took off when the China market took off and has become ridiculously expensive. My biggest coin regret is that I didn't buy the Pick-2 plate note when the Krause files were sold off. It sold for $2500 at the time, which was more than I was comfortable spending on one note. Since then, I have not seen a nicer example and you can't get one even close for less than $25,000
Oh well...
Probably my favorite coin, or the one I'm proudest of, is the Pittman gold 20 Srang coin that I bought from the Pittman sale. At the time, I paid $1200 for it which was an order of magnitude more than I'd ever paid for a coin before.
Comments
I got that, which is why I responded to that part as well, but I am curious to hear your thoughts on the part you quoted regarding German-Americans over the past few centuries. Any thoughts?
Given your earlier posted studies, I imagine you'd be interested in supporting this point as well. This is interesting to me so I hope you can find one to support your supposition.
A case can be made that numismatics is and has been a universal pastime through the ages.
just as ancient Greek and Roman coins are accumulated for a connection to those contributions to human development, so will the quest for a connection to the genesis of American ideals and values.
There may be a trend for less consumption and accumulation as a whole, but there will always be a place for reflection and symbolism and numismatics is a prime activity for historical and political contemplation.
We are in control of the destiny of numismatics, it will be up to our current generations to apply the importance to future generations of not only the history of coinage but how it relates to past, current and future political, social and economic decision making.
So I think we should be bullish on the future of the hobby.
At the risk of it becoming political, it used to be that immigrants entered the "melting pot". The whole idea of a melting point is now considered to be a "microagression" or an "identity related aggression".
Study?
I’ve read that one reason the melting pot works, even today, is that immigrants are allowed to get jobs in the US. Compare the situation in the US with say France.
There are studies that show a certain amount of assimilation by the second native generation. But those are based on past norms.
I know a lot of collectors, and you probably do also, who collect their heritage. I buy Sicilian coins and I don't even speak Italian.
I’ve heard good integration stories in the US even today. For example, in the US many Muslim immigrants are busy working and making a living while in France they aren’t allowed to get jobs and certain areas have 40% unemployment due to lack of job opportunities. Also look at the Dreamers. If they are learning English, getting a higher education, and chasing the American Dream, that seems to be pretty good integration to me. Many of them can’t even relate to the countries their parents came from very well.
It’s cool that you buy Sicilian coins. I’m curious what percentage of value of your collection is Sicilian vs US? I’ll say that my collection is over 99% US by value and by item count. It helps that I was born in the US, have lived here my entire life, and have a hard time reading text on coins from my parents’ country 😉
I have very little US in my personal collection. The largest piece of my collection is Tibetan.
Is your heritage Italian? Did your heritage have a large of an impact on your collecting?
It is interesting that my collection is virtually all US while you have very little. How many generations has your family been in the US? I’m the first generation born in the US.
I'm 2nd or 3rd depending on which ancestor. That background is the only reason I buy Sicilian coins.
I always puzzles me when a millennial complains about money yet has 10 grand worth of ink on their body. Life is about choices.
That is one of those anecdotes that doesn't really illuminate the facts. By any measure, income being the key one, millennials (as a group) do have real struggles. Finding one person with 10 grand in ink obfuscates the issue a bit.
Most of the younger collectors I know, and I know a LOT of them, can be classified into three main categories;
World Coin Collectors. Better bang for your buck than US, and it's not even close.
Toner Collectors. Pretty coins with above average eye appeal have been hot, hot, hot over the past decade and they see that trend.
Plastic Collectors. Old holders rise in popularity has also drawn in the younger crowd who don't mind grinding and playing the plastic/bean game.
From what I've seen, younger collectors in this hobby are focused on history and wealth preservation, and tend to lean more educated and intelligent than older collectors.
You could make an argument there's a fourth, even larger than those three combined and doubled...
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
If you want to help bring new young people into the coin world, give them a nice silver coin with a story to go along with it and the future prospect of increasing value. I've personally handed out to 5 different young people, some that worked for me, teens to 20's, silver Libertad's and a Morgan's. I have also tipped certain people I had regular services with, haircut, etc., with many different silver coins over time.
Just silver is good. I don’t think a story about increasing value is necessary, especially if the probability the piece will actually increase is small.
In the origin stories for Pogue and Simpson, the coins they focused on actually had high returns, which for them excited. So if there’s a story about good returns, there should actually be good returns.
How about if I show dozens? I work with them.
The millennials I work with live in some of the most expensive parts of the country.
They tend to live at home with their parents out of school, find a partner and then go directly from living with the parents and saving money to buying a house with their partner. It's a good approach given the high cost of living.
A millennial I work with just recently started collecting Buffalo nickels. I had a Dansco album with about 15 or 20 common date Buffs in it from G to VF. I knew he would be hard pressed to spare any money for them, so I traded them to him for a few elk steaks and packages of elk burger. I get the pleasure of some elk meat and hopefully he will be come a life long collector to carry the torch.
Those are good approaches. The vast majority of the US coin market is mature and will not see significant price increases Having focus like this reflects a good understanding of the market.
Mine is and thats why I collect coins designed by Italian immigrants or Italian-American designers... the Peace $ being #1...
At some point I plan on collecting medieval coins from the region my family is from but I havent started that collection yet.
Hey, paisan!
That's a great way to collect! I'm not Italian but I do collect works by both Antonio de Francisci and Frank Gasparro.
That sounds very exciting. It's great to have history that goes so far back.
That reminds me of Castello di Amorosa in California, an Italian castle tribute built by Dario Sattui, great grandson of Genoa immigrant Vittorio Sattui. If either you or @jmlanzaf haven't visited yet, it's quite an experience and could be worth a visit.
I’d encourage folks to scroll through the responses to this “Are Younger People On Here?” Reddit thread. Most of these collectors aren’t hanging out at the monthly coin show at the VFW. I’m not a dealer but when I need to sell something from my collection I have more success selling quickly on Reddit than other platforms.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Thanks PC.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
a BTC crash would bring the crypto-kiddies over en masse. The rotten nature of the USD will continue to win economic-minded converts (e.g. Mike Maloney vids or Zerohedge reads). Also, I see the third stock market crash of my life ahead and that will shock and awe some into coins. As mentioned influencers or a hit movie that uses a fat stack as a plot driver could do it.
Great chats there. Thanks for posting the link.
Some PCGS coins too:
>
This is the castle my family use to own in Italy castleoflettere.com
It was built over 1000 years ago by the Normans. But before that it was a Roman fortification during the Social Wars of 83-81 BC. Lucius Sulla founded the town after the Wars end.
I want to put together a collection of coins featuring Sulla as well as Norman and Spanish medieval coinage from 1050 through the 16th century when the Spanish conquered The Kingdom of Two Sicilies. Once complete, I want to donate the collection to the Archeological Park of Pompeii who now manages the castle so they can establish a museum at the castle.
A crash in Bitcoin and/or the stock market is going to send people running into numismatics?
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
That is officially awesome. Here's some text from the Castello di Lettere page here:
http://pompeiisites.org/en/lettere/
It looks like it's now publicly owned or owned by a non-profit?
That's really cool and a great way to contribute to appreciation for history. Good luck!
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It is owned by the town now. But the Archeological Park in Pompeii manages it.
In the 16th century 3 families (Fattorosi, di Rocco & Cavallaro) bought the castle and the fiefdom from the then current owner Fabio Marchese - they sold off the land and donated the castle to the town since none of them wanted to live in it. It was recently repaired and restored about 10 years ago... Unfortunately, there's really nothing to tour other than the building, so I'm hoping the coin collection will be something that will attract visitors. I also have a small collection of manuscripts I have bought and made copies of that pertain to the town's history archiviodilettere.com
I think that is a stretch too. In a stock market crash, I’ll be looking for cheap stocks that I think will rebound or real estate if and when the current housing bubble finally busts.
Very nice.
Magical thinking by people whose natural bias is towards coins.
The coin "discord" server, basically a chat room with smileys and GIFs, that I am on has over 1000 users. The vast majority of them are under 25, it seems. They just mostly focus on buying/selling online, when coin shows are mentioned they usually bemoan the lack of affordable material that interests them at the shows.
This is the link to the aforementioned server. You do have to make an account and verify your email, I believe.
https://discord.gg/78h723V
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
The new dealer network
It's good to hear of the hustle!
Most of them are collectors, but many do sell by nature. I think it's just the way of the younger generation, given how wagees are in this country these days, you have to exploit the means available to you to have the extra income to pursue hobbies like numismatics intensively. This hobby has never been very centralized, and I think that decentralization will continue for the foreseeable future.
There are a few younger legitimate dealers on there, as well as a dozen or so serious vest dealers. There's also a few guys that work for the TPGs and major auction houses.
They have a lot of knowledge. I think it may very well be the best place on the internet to get an opinion about your coins in real time.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
How did you get started on that?
LOL. It's kind of a happy story which reminds me of my dealer-friend who died last year.
I've always had an interest in Eastern religions and philosophy. When I got back into coins, I was paging through my Pick catalog and noticed a very colorful Tibetan note with a Buddhist theme (Pick-11 100 Srang). A week or so later, I stopped to see my dealer-friend, this was very early in our acquaintance, and sitting on top of his coin trays was a 100 Srang Tibetan P-11. He had just gotten back from a coin show and had tossed it in the case. It was kismet!
I bought it and started to pursue other material. He would go to shows and find whatever he could find. Eventually, I found a woman on eBay who lived in Bhutan who would sell me boxes of inexpensive Tibetan coins. I wouldn't be surprised if I have the largest collection of low cost common Tibet material. LOL.
At that time (around 2000), Tibetan material was relatively cheap. Since then it took off when the China market took off and has become ridiculously expensive. My biggest coin regret is that I didn't buy the Pick-2 plate note when the Krause files were sold off. It sold for $2500 at the time, which was more than I was comfortable spending on one note. Since then, I have not seen a nicer example and you can't get one even close for less than $25,000
Oh well...
Probably my favorite coin, or the one I'm proudest of, is the Pittman gold 20 Srang coin that I bought from the Pittman sale. At the time, I paid $1200 for it which was an order of magnitude more than I'd ever paid for a coin before.