PCGS experience with getting a regrade '+ grade' vs the next grade up?
HoldTheMayo
Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
I know PCGS allows the submitor to select options on regrades:
1. Upgrade by one full numeric point (default) Example: (MS64 to MS65) 2. Upgrade by Plus Grade ONLY. Example: (AU58 to AU58+, AU58 will not upgrade to MS60)
Seeing if anyone has ever done an experiment on success rate of selecting Plus grade only vs full numeric points. I know its hard to do since each coin is different but just curious.
Edit: Seems to be some confusion on my intent/strategy on why you'd ask for "+ grade only" vs a regrade;
There are many coins that see a huge drop-off in population from say an MS64 to MS65. IMO from a psychology perspective, the grader would be more willing to give you a "+ designation only" vs letting him to decide on next grade up vs keeping same grade. PCGS would never say this but I would wager they "gate keep" on coins with huge drops in population. Maybe not intentionally but the grader will have an "unconscious bias" in knowing the next grade up has a really low pop
In the grader's thought process, in your request for a "+ grade only" you are acknowledging its a nice coin but not an MS65. You are showing modesty and my theory is that he'd be more aught to give you the + grade only
For example a 1927-S Peace dollar only has pop of 1600 in MS64, and drops off to 98 in MS65, but there are 170 in MS64+ grade.
Comments
I'd wager the average submitter's rate of getting the coin to the next grade is very very low. It takes a very talented eye to catch something borderline that might go next grade up.
I wonder if PCGS regrades are like overturning a ruling in an NFL game. You would need 'conclusive visual evidence' in order to overturn a call (or in this case the grade already on the PCGS slab).
Before trying to out guess 2-3 trained PCGS grading experts, be sure to look your coin over for a long time under various lighting, and study the photo grade site in detail that they provide to help, and consider the costs, including risks of shipping losses. If your coin is better in your opinion, my advice is try for a + grade first, as other successful full numbered options are quite rare.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
In my experience you are way more likely to get an upgrade simply by cracking the coin out and submitting it raw. NGC/PCGS are very hesitant to one up each other. I recently cracked out an MS65 Gettysburg commem in an early generation NGC holder and submitted it raw to NGC, came back a 66+.
It sounds like you’re describing the Reconsideration service, where the graders evaluate the coin in the slab. With the Regrade service the coin is removed from the slab before being sent to the graders.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I actually was the one behind the + grade only review. I negotiated to have my coins reviewed for + only and low and behold it became a new option. This designation, IMHO, is solely for everyman collectors who want a + on their 58's...which was the case for me. I sure as heck don't want my 58 to turn into a 62!
You sound as if you’re missing the bigger picture. There are a great many coins - primarily uncirculated and Proof examples - for which there are extremely significant differences in value between contiguous grades. As a result, a plus grade can be a very big deal. The plus is about far more than your focus on the 58+ grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There is a big difference here! Of course there is a significant increase for a + in MS grades for some coins. Wouldn't that person want a full point upgrade instead of a +? But if a 58 upgrades to a 62 or even a 63 their can be a significant loss in value! Yeah I know it doesn't make sense until you get around some of us serious everyman collectors!
I understand your point about Everyman collectors. But you wrote “This designation, IMHO, is solely for everyman collectors who want a + on their 58's...which was the case for me”. And while the 58+ grade might be of special interest to you, your comment excludes many other grades, that are Just as meaningful to others buyers and sellers. You do know the meaning of “solely”, don’t you?😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
So are you telling me someone submitting say a 64 for review would rather have a 64+ as opposed to a 65? I don't think so!
Lo and behold, FWIW. Carry on...
Where, on earth, did you get that idea? I didn’t say or imply any such thing. My point was and is that the plus grade is about far more than what you make it out to be - in your own words “solely for collectors who want a + on their 58’s...”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I thought it was all called regrading.
I'm out
My Saint Set
I was replying to @HoldTheMayo 's line 2! As I said before, why would anyone want to upgrade anything other than an AU58 by a + only! Any other grade and anyone I know would rather have a full point upgrade as opposed to a + only!
When posting your message/reply, you quoted my post, not his. 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Off course I did! Perhaps my interpretation is wrong, but your post seemed to insinuate some would prefer a + upgrade to a full point upgrade on all grades.
No, as I posted more than once, already, my point was and is that the plus grade is about far more than what you make it out to be - in your own words “solely for collectors who want a + on their 58’s...”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Perhaps PCGS has changed their submission rules. As I understand it, a + only review is just that. An upgrade buy a full point used to have the option of also upgrading by only a + if it would not upgrade a full point.
Why has no one ever used the - grade ? Seems only fair.
@MFeld while @amwldcoin did write “+ designation” I am pretty sure he meant the “plus only designation review.” I think both of you would agree that a plus has value to any grade but it’s really only for an AU58 where you wouldn’t also want to consider the chance for a full point upgrade (or more).
Thank you and I sure hope so.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I did, read the #2 option in the original post. I don't understand how we keep dancing around this as I have pointed it out twice!
Got it - you were talking about “plus only”, while I was talking about “plus”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Don't go there!
If you submit for a re-grade, it can go up a grade or just get a + (I have had both happen on the same submission)
The plus only option was created for AU58+. In this case, you do not want a full number upgrade. (this is my opinion, but it makes sense and I have used it for that purpose)
To be fair, you don't know that you wouldn't get the same result with a reevaluation.
@amwldcoin @MFeld
I think I missed the mark on not providing intent on why'd you do "+ grade only". I edited the original post and put my intent/strategy as to why you'd want to ask for "+ grade only"
After reading your edited message I will reply here. Personally, I don't think it maters. You can still get a + on a regular reconsideration. Getting a + grade on a + only reconsideration is akin the pulling on a 1 armed bandit from my experience!