Scratched 1888/7 Indian...should I send it in again?
opportunity
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Rarely am I as stumped on a decision as I am at the moment. I just got the grade "XF details - scratched." Fair enough, but I thought it might be overlooked because those reverse marks are only minimally perceptible to the naked eye (and really only the one below N in CENT is perceptible at all to the naked eye). I figured since the coin is otherwise pretty nice and the location of the small scratches, they might say OK it's fine. But now I have a decision to make...what do you all think? Is there just too much going on to be overlooked?
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
Scratched 1888/7 Indian...should I send it in again?
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
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I'd bounce it back and forth between PCGS and NGC a few times trying to get it straight graded... especially if it was a cherrypick. Thousands of dollars to be made.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I would expect a few nick/scratches on a circulated coin in this grade. The harsh cleaning would be what would turn me away if the photos are accurate.
What cleaning lol.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
IMHO the marks on the obverse are market acceptable, but the big scratch on the reverse above the O in ONE will get you a details holder 100 times out of 100.
The coin still "is what it is" and the holder is still useful for confirming authenticity, for any Indian Cent collector other than one building a Registry set, I think it would be a wonderful addition.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
That's what I was wondering, lol. Cleaning was the farthest thing from my mind.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
Interesting, my focus was on the scratch below N since that's the only that's (minimally visible) to the naked eye. The one above can't really be seen without a loupe. But it's there I guess.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
If you were buying, would it still be okay? Would you overlook the dings and scratches?
My eyes went right to the one above the O, but the one below the N is probably just as disqualifying. Both on the same coin, and well....
Sean REynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I agree with @seanq the scratches on the reverse, I do not feel, would ever pass pcgs inspection.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Congratulations!
Big bucks, keep on trying. However, to maybe NGC too?
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Agree with others. The gouge above O that goes from the shield to the oak leaves is what caught my eye.
No.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I've seen coins with worse scratches straight-graded and coins with less scratches details graded. If you have plenty of room in it, why not give it another try, perhaps from a different service.
When you look at the reverse carefully--as any buyer will--- there are many man made scratches. Not just the main two. Look up between the wreath and rim at 1 & 3oclock. Someone took a sharp instrument to many places.
Not the kind of copper that PCGS wants to put a straight grade on.
Sell it for what it is and move forward.
I would be pissed if I bought that sight unseen in a problem free holder!
I am having trouble understanding why you think those scratches cannot be seen without a loupe, they are super clear and very easy to see.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
By without a loupe, I mean in hand.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
I think this coin is going to be given close scrutiny and those scratches are very noticeable.
Understood, and I also get that your photos (great photos bty) are very large which make the scratches stand out. What I meant is that I think any decent grader will be able to see those scratches with the unaided eye with the coin in hand and proper lighting.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I agree with the details holder. Just too many scratches and there are also several SMALL rim issues. Enjoy as is and I hope it was a cherry pick. Congrats if it was.
huh?
harsh cleaning?
BHNC #203
I've seen straight graded coins with similar scratches in top tier slabs.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Something told me that posting large, high res pics of a small coin (smaller than I'm used to dealing with) would give everyone on here a chance to pick it apart to death. Now don't get me wrong, I think everyone comment above is entirely reasonable (except for that weird one about it being harshly cleaned), but something in my gut it telling me not to give up on this coin. As of now, I think I'm going to ping pong it to Newport Beach once again & if that still doesn't work, I might set my sights in a more southerly direction. I'll keep the thread updated.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
I do not think it will straight grade if resubmitted....The scratches (quite obvious) and multiple dings/hits on devices and rim.... Good luck if you try. Cheers, RickO
Wow, I have had rejects with so much LESS marking/scratches...
Well, just Love coins, period.
Even scratched it's a super rarity. Are you keeping it or selling it? Either way, slabbed w/details or unslabbed, it would probably bring the same price. If it was mine and I cherrypicked it, I would offer it to Eagle Eye(Rick Snow) just to get an idea of it's value.
Yeah it's going back. Has to go back. Unless someone scoops it up on an "it is what it is" basis first. Wish me luck!
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
no matter what results you get, even if it doesn't grade after 10 submissions, that coin WILL ultimately end up in a graded holder and after some of the stuff posted here, a sticker isn't out of the question unfortunately.
just like with gold, copper is soft and gets a little bit of a curve when grading, as gold and copper should. the stuff WAS/IS meant to circulate in commerce after all.
despite the many nicks/cuts etc, i wanted to say NICE COIN you got there! one tough son a gun with that much meat and nice chocolate brown surfaces!
edited for spelling.--
I dont see a reality that is doesn't end up net graded in an EF40 holder at either PCGS or NGC, I would try 4 or 5 times over 2 years before I blew it out at auction.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Maybe so. I'm going to try PCGS once again, if not I will probably turn to the dark side and try there.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
the only question is who gets it into the holder
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
And then, eventually it'll end up for sale on somebody's website. Which will be pointed out on a new thread here. With a comment like "Can you believe someone trying to pass off a scratched coin in a straight-graded holder like this?"
Interestingly, it looks like PCGS gave it an acetone bath without me asking, which is a really good thing. The overdate is much clearer and the coin looks better in general. May be back for round 2!
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
Straight graded or not it is still a very rare coin and should be an easy sale. I once cherried a dateless 1916 DDO nickel from the remaining diagnostics and had no trouble selling it raw.
Scratches can disappear if one has the lights in the right position, but it does not mean they are not there, and this one has quite a few that are severe IMO, so a details grade is the right one and sending it back in likely won't change that.
Best, SH
I always wonder does a TPG scratch/details coin get sent in enough that it eventually straight grades $$. Kinda like the Car mechanic who actually fixes your brakes after the 3rd try $$. Have fun with this one....................
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I always wonder if people who think businesses operate that way do the same thing where they work.
I cannot elaborate but I have seen operations as such.
There are psychopaths and anti-socials and they are employed and own businesses
This is more like a pitcher continuously throwing the ball two inches off the plate and waiting for it to get called a strike. Eventually you may find an umpire on a bad day who calls it a strike, but that doesn't mean the pitch wasn't technically a ball.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Naw, that pitcher gets a guaranteed salary contract despite the craziness of his pitches. Doesn't depend on a TPG grade for making money or not.
>
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Just a bit too rough to get a straight grade.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
What will happen, is you'll try and try and it wont get it, then you will sell it and the right person will get it done. Ive seen it happen too many times including several times to me and my clients.
The biggest one I had yet that i mentioned several years back was the 1801 3 errors, as the best I could do was to get XF details at both pcgs and NGC, only to have it show up later as a pcgs 53 cac in auction.
edited to add: After bouncing around in auction a few times, looks like it has finally been taken off the market and removed from holder, based on coin facts.
I would resubmit this coin at least two or three times. The scratches are not typical for an XF coin but if it were net graded as a VF it's value would be apporpriate. I think the coin will sell for VF money, but not XF money. But it will sell more readily as a VF.
OINK
I've heard this story many times. Don't forget that many coins are on the border between two grades. I can understand why collectors who don't know how to grade coins insist on only buying CAC stickered coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Oh that's brutal. But I wonder why it would have been taken off the market with a CAC sticker?
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
The upper scratch is a lot less visible in the Trueview
Frustrating! Ahhh!
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
Dinged up for sure, but I've had "scratched" coins eventually grade. Go for it
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
If a seller set up the lighting for his photo so that his image minimized the appearance of the scratch, lots of people here would say he was being dishonest.
Just sayin'.
You do know....IMHO.... a Trueveiw is a glamour shot that makes a coin look the best it can in a photo!