Gray Sheet Good Value or ............
HiBucky
Posts: 614 ✭✭✭
I am looking for a good price guide for large cents and was wondering if the Gray Sheet is worth it weight in GOLD. I not really sure if it worth the money and if its really necessary to have when doing coin shows and pricing coins .. What do you guys say.... I really don't want to spend $300 for 12 issues ,, but I will if its necessary. Thanks
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I subscribe. The information is priceless for generalist dealers. If you are a specialist, it may be less worth the price.
I am quite happy with it.
I used to get one every year and it would come with the inserts/specials from the previous 12 months. I got my money’s worth out of it, for sure. $300 for everything for the year? I never spent enough on coins to justify it. You might, though.
I usually buy one or two issues a year. Prices don’t change that much.
Excuse stupid questions: Are Large Cents so volatile that there are large changes month to month? Does the Sheet no longer offer one-off samples?
Had to renew, again. Said I wouldn't. But bidness is business.
I pick up one occasionally on eBay…maybe once or twice a year. More than close enough in terms of prices for me.
Dave
I
Aren't they illegal to resell? It violates the terms of use.
You can still buy single issues.
They have expanded the large cents in recent years to include a lot of Sheldon varieties. The prices are as volatile as the market. In the last couple of years, there has been far more movement than in the previous few years.
I used to get it back in the early 2000's when I could go to shows.... Was handy to have. Stopped subscribing in 2006... Cheers, RickO
Selling past issues on eBay (or supporting the sellers by purchasing them) is to be discouraged. When I ran the Rochester NY (RACE) coin show, one rule for my dealer exhibitors was ‘no sales of past issues of grey sheet.’ It’s a matter of integrity and respecting their efforts and business.
If you want an issue, they sell individual issues. Support them. I have no connection with them.
Buying and Selling coins for 54 years, 700+ shows in last 20 years, and boy am I tired.
Purchased and Trademarked the Mohawk Valley Hoard
Originated the Rochester (NY) Area Coin Expo
Not sure how useful it is with large cents. The major EAC dealers would laugh if you tried to buy their coins at sheet prices, years ago anyway. Perhaps it’s better now. It might be somewhat useful for buying generic middle and late date cents from non specialist dealers. The earlier dates tend to trade individually, based on their merits and defects. This is where CQR (not sure what the newer version goes by, the last true CQR was issued about 10 years ago) can be more useful. Myself, at this stage I just use CoinFacts and other auction records. Also, be aware of EAC grading when buying large cents from EAC guys. In general this method of grading is usually (but not always) more conservative than 'commercial' grading. and utilizes a lot of net grading.
Large cent pricing generally is a lot more art than science, due to limited supply and wide variations in coin quality - much more so than coins like Morgans and Walkers.
I ordered the Gray Sheet for a year.....I will decide if it helps with my coin buying and selling. One thing i saw was used copies being resold, I WILL NOT RESELL!!
I would think copying pages of the Grey Sheet and then selling the copied pages is illegal. What I don't get is why selling a fully intact past Grey Sheet one has purchased would be illegal.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
With CDN CPG (CDN retail) free off ones phone and online / real-time any bid / offer One may make can simply be a pct of CPG MV. Just sign up. You can purchase the CPG qtrly paper subscr for about $40 / yr for both CAC and non CAC I believe which I am planning to call them and do. Individual copies can be purchased from them (CDN) even off eBay (current issue). My bids / offers based on pct of what can sell a coin or banknote for (or some published retail value) which may vary vs need, grade range assessment of item, or type of inventory class.
Or you could just use PCGS free Coin Facts / MV app as basis which has auc data access. It’s all simply a matter of what fits your budget / mode of operation.
Illegal might not be quite the right word. It might be a violation of copyright or something. It is specifically forbidden in the terms of use. But it might be more a civil tort than an actual crime.
I'll ask a lawyer who might know if it some kind of crime to sell a used Grey Sheet. 12 issues for $300 makes them $25 apiece new. I don't see where a subscriber trying to get $10 or so from selling a used one is that big a deal.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
It violates the terms. See my pic above.
There's a thing called the "First Sale Doctrine", which makes me curious whether a publisher can actually prohibit someone from reselling something they have purchased. I'm sure Ford would love it if buyers of F-150s were not allowed to resell their trucks when they no longer wanted them.
I imagine it depends on whether you are purchasing the paper copy or simply paying a licensing fee for its use.
I'd think it could, so I'll amend my previous comment to address the printed issue only.
They’re basically asking you not to resell. It’s not enforceable and is just a violation of their wishes.
It’l like a snickers pack that says “not intended for resale.” You can totally resell it without any problem (because it’s not against the rules).
If it’s a big deal to you, don’t buy used or resell. If it’s not, you’re in the clear.
A dealer gave me a copy once when I was a teenager and it’s probably the only reason I was ever willing to actually give the company money for a current one. Secondary markets aren’t all bad, even for print info companies.
Not enforceable in a legal or practical sense? I would think that terms of service could be legally enforced, it's just not worth the trouble or expense.
A dang eBay search shows a number of 6 months old or less copies and 1-3 years back. CAC reports. Looks like $20-25 gets a fairly new issue. 🤔
I guess I always thought to contact them and purchase a single copy if needed and available. Sounds like the price would be pretty close
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I don't know about Graysheets But I went to a local coin show and wanted to upgrade a Buffalo Nickel I had a MS64 and wanted to get a MS66 when I asked what I could get for mine Dealer said let me check GreenSheet, gave me what I thought was a lowball price, I said are you going to sell me your at Greensheet price, Dealer said why no, and that was also my reply to Them, retail for retail or wholesale for wholesale, not wholesale for yours and retail for mine. So I moved on and they lost a sale and maybe a repeat customer...
Bluesheet
That's sight unseen
What you're offering is a deal that benefits you but not your trading partner. You can probably understand why some people might not be interested in a deal on those terms.
edited to add... Any dealer who buys and sells at the same prices won't be in business long.
If he looks at your coin and then makes an offer using the sight-unseen blue sheet, it's time to walk.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
What if it's a turd?????
Watch your mouth! This is a family forum.
I've seen this several times in coin shops. A person will bring in a nice slabbed coin and the dealer will make an offer using the sight-unseen blue sheet. He will even show the seller the blue sheet and point out the price and say this is what a fair price is. He'll do this even with nice coins. A few dealers that I know would even say "10% back of bid" so that "he can make a fair profit".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I don't think that is as nefarious as you make it sound. A lot of dealers post coins on sight unseen exchanges and they won't get more than bluesheet. That is the "bail out" price on the coin. They are buying wholesale, after all, and not retail. They are not trying to take on risk in purchasing a coin.
I find this to be generally true, but it really depends what we're talking about. It is excellent for widgets. But, like any guide, its utility is limited for exceptional or rare coins.
There was a dealer at the local show, for example, who had some decent material although none of it extremely rare. He quoted 10% over greysheet bid on everything he was selling and he quoted 10% under bid for everything he was buying.
Well, aren't you a Debbie Downer this morning, coming up with a reasonable explanation for a dealer's actions instead of just dumping on them for screwing people over?
Sorry. Sometimes I forget myself.
Glad to see you boys playing nice. You make me so proud 🥲
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶