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Was this coin struck during the US Invasion of Panama?

ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

I heard other rumors so this is my guess ...

Comments

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,224 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmmm. "Mint error"? :#

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    wanted to see both sides, so may as well post the tv since i looked it up.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @messydesk said:
    SF was making coins for Panama, including proofs, during the Modern Shenanigans Era of the late '60s and early '70s. A dollar to a donut says this was made there then. PCGS should have at least used 1966 as the early date, since Schlag's initials are visible.

    That actually makes more sense than a US serviceman carrying an off center nickel into battle.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,224 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Didn't a lot of Panama coin dies make their way into private hands?

    I believe I've seen Panamanian designs struck over half dollars.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    Didn't a lot of Panama coin dies make their way into private hands?

    I believe I've seen Panamanian designs struck over half dollars.

    The rumor I heard, not sure if it's true or not is that when the US invaded, the US military secured Panamas Mint and that there was some midnight minting going on during that time. Most likely by a numismatist.

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Chris- here is another unique mint error with strikes from both the U.S. and Panama:

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,224 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2021 1:14PM

    @Byers said:
    Chris- here is another unique mint error with strikes from both the U.S. and Panama:

    That's Panama? I would have guessed Philippines.

    Edit: just looked it up. That's a Philippines reverse for sure.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,465 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    Chris- here is another unique mint error with strikes from both the U.S. and Panama:

    "(either deliberately or as a mint error, or both)" Fixed it for you.

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Opps, your right! ☺️

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Mike and JBK

    Gotta love all the mystery surrounding mint error coins :)

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,255 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @JBK said:
    Didn't a lot of Panama coin dies make their way into private hands?

    I believe I've seen Panamanian designs struck over half dollars.

    The rumor I heard, not sure if it's true or not is that when the US invaded, the US military secured Panamas Mint and that there was some midnight minting going on during that time. Most likely by a numismatist.

    What?????? THe U.S. Mints struck coins for Panama up into the 1970's.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @JBK said:
    Didn't a lot of Panama coin dies make their way into private hands?

    I believe I've seen Panamanian designs struck over half dollars.

    The rumor I heard, not sure if it's true or not is that when the US invaded, the US military secured Panamas Mint and that there was some midnight minting going on during that time. Most likely by a numismatist.

    What?????? THe U.S. Mints struck coins for Panama up into the 1970's.

    United States invasion of Panama
    Dec 20, 1989 – Jan 31, 1990

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is the 69 page pdf from
    MINT ERROR NEWS with the comprehensive list of coins that the U.S. struck for world countries:

    https://minterrornews.com/foreign_coinage_production_figures.pdf

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • pocketpiececommemspocketpiececommems Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wonder how long it took to make that label? Almost ran out of room 😊

  • 2ltdjorn2ltdjorn Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭

    more interested in the valuation of said coin.

    WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!
  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 958 ✭✭✭✭✭

    USA Philly Mint Struck some coinage for Panama in 1982, Medio Balboas for sure as I looked that up recently. 1984 was final year for US Made Foreign coinage

  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 958 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Found my 1980's Panama USA production info image on my ancient iphone6

    Originally from Coin World;

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,255 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since 1985 circulating Panamanian coins have been struck in Canada, so there was no Panama Mint during the 1989 invasion.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @JBK said:
    Didn't a lot of Panama coin dies make their way into private hands?

    I believe I've seen Panamanian designs struck over half dollars.

    The rumor I heard, not sure if it's true or not is that when the US invaded, the US military secured Panamas Mint and that there was some midnight minting going on during that time. Most likely by a numismatist.

    There has never been a Panama Mint.

    thefinn
  • mvs7mvs7 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LindyS said:
    USA Philly Mint Struck some coinage for Panama in 1982, Medio Balboas for sure as I looked that up recently. 1984 was final year for US Made Foreign coinage

    The US Mint coined iits last coins for Panama in fiscal 1984; those last coins were dated 1983.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    INVASION MONEY is expensive! :p

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @messydesk said:
    SF was making coins for Panama, including proofs, during the Modern Shenanigans Era of the late '60s and early '70s. A dollar to a donut says this was made there then. PCGS should have at least used 1966 as the early date, since Schlag's initials are visible.

    Calling @FredWeinberg :)

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2021 4:14AM

    Is that really the price of the 5 centesimos? PLEASE!

    And a number of the US mint dies did come into the possession of at least one individual, and a number dispersed. I saw one set of dies that may have been used in striking the 0.400 gold Panama pieforts of 1982 as there appeared to be gold residua in some of the devices.
    These are IMO manufactured "errors" like some others featured on these boards recently with IMO some value as curiosities but NOT 100k worth....

    Here is one that is probably of more interest complete with date that was purchased for about 200 USD (graded Proof 66!):


    Here is a pattern gotten off ebay about 8 years ago, price somewhere about 25-50 dollars and an actual pattern versus contrived error:


    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,734 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2021 4:17AM

    @7Jaguars said:
    Is that really the price of the 5 centesimos? PLEASE!

    And a number of the US mint dies did come into the possession of at least one individual, and a number dispersed. I saw one set of dies that may have been used in striking the 0.400 gold Panama pieforts of 1982 as there appeared to be gold residua in some of the devices.
    These are IMO manufactured "errors" like some others featured on these boards recently with IMO some value as curiosities but NOT 100k worth....

    Makes sense. Not sure if these are related, but Louis Dickerson Hudson had a set of Panama dies that was sold on eBay a while ago.

  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 958 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My best guess is its a real undated off center 5 Centesimos with TEENY TINY Strike applied using partially defaced USA proof 5 dies. Simple to do as partially defaced USA 5c proof dies survive.

  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 958 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I LOVE that 1972 Proof !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I actually collect US made, UK Made PANAMA Errors, including Shenanigan, Assisted, Mint Sport examples.

    Dad was stationed in Canal Zone so I spent my first 4 years of life there.

    Please let me know if you'd like to compare error goodies ???

    None of mine are for sale, as I buy & hold, but would be great to know what else exists

    Lindy

    @7Jaguars said:
    Is that really the price of the 5 centesimos? PLEASE!

    And a number of the US mint dies did come into the possession of at least one individual, and a number dispersed. I saw one set of dies that may have been used in striking the 0.400 gold Panama pieforts of 1982 as there appeared to be gold residua in some of the devices.
    These are IMO manufactured "errors" like some others featured on these boards recently with IMO some value as curiosities but NOT 100k worth....

    Here is one that is probably of more interest complete with date that was purchased for about 200 USD (graded Proof 66!):


    Here is a pattern gotten off ebay about 8 years ago, price somewhere about 25-50 dollars and an actual pattern versus contrived error:


  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This thread has evolved way beyond my knowledge so I will let you guys handle it from here.

    All I know is a saw the coin in the OP and thought I remembered a rumor (incorrectly???).

    Thanks for all the input.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    This thread has evolved way beyond my knowledge so I will let you guys handle it from here.

    All I know is a saw the coin in the OP and thought I remembered a rumor (incorrectly???).

    Thanks for all the input.

    What does Wikipedia and Google turn up?

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    This thread has evolved way beyond my knowledge so I will let you guys handle it from here.

    All I know is a saw the coin in the OP and thought I remembered a rumor (incorrectly???).

    Thanks for all the input.

    What does Wikipedia and Google turn up?

    You are the research guru, which we appreciate :)

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2021 10:28AM

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @messydesk said:
    SF was making coins for Panama, including proofs, during the Modern Shenanigans Era of the late '60s and early '70s. A dollar to a donut says this was made there then. PCGS should have at least used 1966 as the early date, since Schlag's initials are visible.

    That actually makes more sense than a US serviceman carrying an off center nickel into battle.

    How America invaded Panama is a rarely told and interesting part of our special operations history. Panama was one of the largest and last Airborne operations with over 6000 active combat Jumps (planes full) tailing on WW2 and Korea in number of troops deployed by parachute and Korea only slightly edges it out. WW2 had more than all other conflicts combined.

    When I was a young operator we always looked up to the old timers who had mustard stains on their wings in our unit from that and also a lesser know operation in Grenada. Long story short any parachutist can tell you having stuff in your pockets is a sure fire way to donate what ever it is to St. Michael. If that nickel was with one of them, it wouldn't still be around today.

  • 2ltdjorn2ltdjorn Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    INVASION MONEY is expensive! :p

    Seems like cheap advertising or fishing? Seems like a good way to get stuck with a unicorn.

    WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!
  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 958 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pump & Dump

    @2ltdjorn said:

    @Zoins said:
    INVASION MONEY is expensive! :p

    Seems like cheap advertising or fishing? Seems like a good way to get stuck with a unicorn.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,734 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2021 7:20AM

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @Zoins said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    This thread has evolved way beyond my knowledge so I will let you guys handle it from here.

    All I know is a saw the coin in the OP and thought I remembered a rumor (incorrectly???).

    Thanks for all the input.

    What does Wikipedia and Google turn up?

    You are the research guru, which we appreciate :)

    I do love posting on the forums, but it's your find and you're the one that publishes in MintErrorNews Magazine! B)

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1051452/i-wrote-a-very-long-major-error-coin-article-with-lots-of-photos-for-mint-error-news#latest

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Chris always submits interesting articles with plenty of images to Mint Error News Magazine!

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 958 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was waiting for someone to point this out.

    Opposite FS is BUS.

    Opposite of UNI is TRU.

    This item has FS and UNI aligned making 5c dies rotated 160 degree or 200 degrees

    Sure dies could have been major rotated, another possible error, but it seems easier for me to believe teeny tiny strike was pressed into rim by mostly canceled proof 5c dies.

    FS was added to obverse die years after 1961 as was mentioned.

    Buy the coin, not the slab, though that's one real pretty holder.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,749 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    United States invasion of Panama

    Dec 20, 1989 – Jan 31, 1990

    Ah, the Good 'Ol Days when wars were fought and over within a month.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 958 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2021 7:00AM

    Happy Monday !

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,734 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2022 4:52PM

    Don’t miss the half off sale!!

  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,398 ✭✭✭✭

    Cool error, but for the asking price, I would like to see a little more of the Jefferson strike.

  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 958 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2022 8:36AM

    Legit no date Panama 5c off center looks good , but radically rotated Jefferson dies strike does not look good to me. The BIN price at 100k now 50k is way inflated, even if it's real.
    One can buy a Medio Balboa struck over JFK 50c at fleabay for 3.6k or best offer, yet that one remains in inventory.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/294617077953

  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 958 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2022 1:02AM

    I googled up where are Panama coins minted at and found in 1570s Panama had a Mint.

    But, since 1570's I cannot find a Coinage Mint located in Panama.
    Anybody got an Address please ?

    Using simple internet searches I found the Panama invasion midnight minter info is not credible.

    @CaptHenway said:
    Since 1985 circulating Panamanian coins have been struck in Canada, so there was no Panama Mint during the 1989 invasion.

    Here's info on 1570 Panama minted coinage:

    https://www.coins-of-panama.com/cobs.html

    My long ago acquired error goodie was not mis struck at The Panama Mint as it seems there has never been a Mint located in Panama in last 500 years

    Having spent my early years in Panama, Dad stationed in Canal Zone, I have always paid extra attention to struck for Panama Coinage Errors.


  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,734 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2022 1:32PM

    @LindyS said:
    Legit no date Panama 5c off center looks good , but radically rotated Jefferson dies strike does not look good to me. The BIN price at 100k now 50k is way inflated, even if it's real.

    Good point on die rotation @LindyS!

    One can buy a Medio Balboa struck over JFK 50c at fleabay for 3.6k or best offer, yet that one remains in inventory.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/294617077953

    That's a neat one too. It would be great to have a TrueView for it.

  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LindyS said:
    I was waiting for someone to point this out.

    Opposite FS is BUS.

    Opposite of UNI is TRU.

    This item has FS and UNI aligned making 5c dies rotated 160 degree or 200 degrees

    Sure dies could have been major rotated, another possible error, but it seems easier for me to believe teeny tiny strike was pressed into rim by mostly canceled proof 5c dies.

    FS was added to obverse die years after 1961 as was mentioned.

    Buy the coin, not the slab, though that's one real pretty holder.

    That's an interesting thought. You mean those late 1960s blow torched cancelled US dies where some of the die detail was left?

  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 958 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2022 2:15PM

    Yes ! That is exactly what I am saying.

    5c USA proof dies exist, many seemed to have survived the torch & were priced accordingly in aftermarket back in the day due to remaining details present.

    From Ken Potter's site:

    @coinJP said:

    @LindyS said:
    I was waiting for someone to point this out.

    Opposite FS is BUS.

    Opposite of UNI is TRU.

    This item has FS and UNI aligned making 5c dies rotated 160 degree or 200 degrees

    Sure dies could have been major rotated, another possible error, but it seems easier for me to believe teeny tiny strike was pressed into rim by mostly canceled proof 5c dies.

    FS was added to obverse die years after 1961 as was mentioned.

    Buy the coin, not the slab, though that's one real pretty holder.

    That's an interesting thought. You mean those late 1960s blow torched cancelled US dies where some of the die detail was left?

  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LindyS said:
    Yes ! That is exactly what I am saying.

    5c USA proof dies exist, many seemed to have survived the torch & were priced accordingly in aftermarket back in the day due to remaining details present.

    From Ken Potter's site:

    @coinJP said:

    @LindyS said:
    I was waiting for someone to point this out.

    Opposite FS is BUS.

    Opposite of UNI is TRU.

    This item has FS and UNI aligned making 5c dies rotated 160 degree or 200 degrees

    Sure dies could have been major rotated, another possible error, but it seems easier for me to believe teeny tiny strike was pressed into rim by mostly canceled proof 5c dies.

    FS was added to obverse die years after 1961 as was mentioned.

    Buy the coin, not the slab, though that's one real pretty holder.

    That's an interesting thought. You mean those late 1960s blow torched cancelled US dies where some of the die detail was left?

    Thanks for posting that old ad. I did not realize there was so many dies originally. 4,500!!

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