Prob a good time to point out that BBCE has been beat on packs many times, including hundreds of star on top cello’s, a 1m pokemon box full of GI Joe cards, and many more that won’t ever be revealed because they will stay wrapped.
With that context, I find the shade thrown at this fella misguided. He doesn’t want one guy, Steve Hart, to grade his packs. So what, this hobby existed long before grading.
Edited to add, I would trust Steve explicitly, but find the idea that he is the only one in the hobby that can spot fake packs / authenticate packs, ridiculous. Would be very easy to beat any authenticator, as has been proven repeatedly.
@80sOPC said:
Prob a good time to point out that BBCE has been beat on packs many times, including hundreds of star on top cello’s, a 1m pokemon box full of GI Joe cards, and many more that won’t ever be revealed because they will stay wrapped.
With that context, I find the shade thrown at this fella misguided. He doesn’t want one guy, Steve Hart, to grade his packs. So what, this hobby existed long before grading.
Edited to add, I would trust Steve explicitly, but find the idea that he is the only one in the hobby that can spot fake packs / authenticate packs, ridiculous. Would be very easy to beat any authenticator, as has been proven repeatedly.
No one person is perfect and yes, Steve has made mistakes in the past but to his credit he has learned from those mistakes, most of which were many years ago, and I cant think of any one individual that is a more vital and trusted presence in the vintage unopened hobby market than Steve Hart.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I will try and answer every question and if I miss any, let me know.
Part 1.
1 -- Why don't I grade? Come see my display of ten showcases and take pictures of them -- how many graded cards or packs do you see. A handful? That is because I have never graded a thing. I have millions of cards and sports collectibles and comic books and records and yearbooks and programs and TV guides and coins and more.
My partner, Mitch Nat, who passed away several years ago, and I discussed whether it was worthwhile for us to jump into grading. Our answer was defintely "NO" as Mitch wanted to back away from spending money and retire gracefully.
So, I still stand by that decision, and other than wax packs I have really not bought much in the past five years except for empty display boxes and wrappers.
Most of what I own was bought in the 1970s and 1980s, while I was advertising daily in Newsday and each issue of the Sports Collectors Digest. There were days I would come home and find 5 to 10 boxes waiting for me, and then go out 5 to 7 days every week buying collections of comic books, cards and records.
My profit on most items is substantial and if the next owner wants to grade any of my collectibles, I am happy for them as long as I can live with my profit.
2 -- Why do I have a booth at the National? I started setting up at flea markets in 1976 selling comic books, started adding cards in 1977, and started setting up at comic and card shows in 1977 or so, and ran over 300 card and comic book shows including three monthly shows for 20+ years. I set up at my first National in Parsippany and have done over 37 Nationals except the first four. I have literally set up at over 1,000 sports and comic book shows.
The National Committee has its constituents in mind, and show locations must have enough room for all of the booths and corporate sponsors. There are few sites in the U.S. that can house the show without the teamsters assistance. This year in Atlantic City is problematic as it is difficult to get there and a percentage of the collectors who want to get there will not make the trip. Chicago and Cleveland and Baltimore are excellent locations. Most of the mid-West and West locations are too small or will lose a high percentage of east coast dealers who will take a pass that year, hurting the reputation of the National.
It's also only fair for the National to provide that priority should decide which dealers have first crack at choosing booths. Otherwise, the "largest and most important" dealers and auction houses in the country will not get their typical location in the building, which they are certainly deserved of after doing 20-40+ years setting up at the National.
3 -- Why have I not sent pictures of my packs that have been requested?
Let me explain so read on:
I am a hoarder collector/ dealer who over the past 60+ years has been buying comic books and cards in quantity and many other collectibles. During the 1970s and 1980s, I was buying so many different collectibles and had no room to store them in my first house, so I built another basement to store them when we built onto the house.
But I moved 32 years ago, and rather than moving my collections into my house, I rented an individual storage facility about 15 -20 minutes from my house to store everything. Eventually I bought that storage location and I am the only one who drives in an out of that location.
But I set the storage up based on value so that everything with a large value is the deepest into storage -- so that is where all of my collections are -- deep into storage. Any of the newly purchased collection parts are waiting to be placed in that location.
My business for sale items that are valuable are also farther into storage so I can't get to them frequently unless I have a request from collectors for photos or to buy items. But sometimes it takes me weeks and months to keep everybody happy.
I own millions of cards and boxes and sports collectibles and over 70,000 + comic books and 15,000 comic books in my own collection. I could go on but it's pointless -- you get the drift -- you can hardly walk around in storage so I get there infrequently.
Here is my request:
Please send me an e-mail at dynamictwo@aol.com and tell me which packs you want to see pix of, and if they are in my for sale list, I will send you pictures sometime between June 15 - July 25 once I am working on the National. Then it is a convenient time when I will be getting ready and I will be working on my packs.
If the packs are NOT in my for sale list but in my collection, you will just have to wait until I work on my collection, which could be quite a while. But maybe not, my wife has been bugging me to sell my comic books. I hope to start inventorying my comic books after the National, which means I will be beyond where my unopened packs collection now sits.
Sometime in the past few years, a number of collectors doubted that I had a 1949 Bowman P.C.L baseball wax pack because none had ever been seen, just wrappers, so eventually I sent pix off to them and they were convinced that I owned one after the pictures. My price that it was for sale for was the highest price I had every sold a pack for
I also had a collector who doubted whether I had a few Parkhurst hockey packs that I had advertised for sale, and eventually I sent him pictures of the three packs, and he was grateful for me doing so.
I also have unopened Mars Attacks packs and last I looked, only one has been graded.
I have many packs that that not one pack has ever been graded by PSA.
But I have nothing to prove to myself by grading my packs. It just means lots of money spent to keep collectors happy. So I will just sell 10-15 percent of my packs; I can live with that and when I pass on, someone else will grade them.
Trimming has been mentioned in a comparison. I have never trimmed any cards, and also got stuck with a MINT Pete Rose rookie card that had been trimmed when it was worth about $100, and I paid $40 for it at a Kennedy Airport show. It was not one of those fake ones but a real one just trimmed to look mint. I've been careful ever since.
I looked at the posted hockey packs and liked the grading of the OPC packs at 7 but did like the 1959 Parkhurst pack as it had way too much discoloration for me. It did not look like an 8 to me.
But seriously, send me your e-mails and any packs you want pictures of and I will send you pix eventually (even though you have never said anything nice about me.)
In fact, and this is for everyone reading this, not just you, please think twice about saying anything that can be interpreted as slander regarding me or my packs without sufficient evidence to back up those statements. The more I think about it
the madder I get.
I do not really have anything against PSA and Hart. My only pet peeves are he is playing both sides of the candle and while he is at the National, he is basically a competitor who can affect the sales of other booth holders, to steer those sales to his booths.
Mark Murphy used to walk around and sometimes set up at my monthly shows in Bayside, New York and Riverside, CT. I value his opinion.
If you consider yourself to be an expert on wax packs like Mark was, send me your details and identify who in the hobby can vouch for your qualifications. Then we can set up a meeting so we can determine the validity of all of my wax packs.
It's probably not worth the effort only because a collector who only buys graded packs will not buy raw ungraded ones even if they are 100% legit.
If you are at this year's National, stop by and say hello anyway.
Trimming has been mentioned in a comparison. I have never trimmed any cards, and also got stuck with a MINT Pete Rose rookie card that had been trimmed when it was worth about $100, and I paid $40 for it at a Kennedy Airport show. It was not one of those fake ones but a real one just trimmed to look mint. I've been careful ever since.
I looked at the posted hockey packs and liked the grading of the OPC packs at 7 but did like the 1959 Parkhurst pack as it had way too much discoloration for me. It did not look like an 8 to me.
But seriously, send me your e-mails and any packs you want pictures of and I will send you pix eventually (even though you have never said anything nice about me.)
In fact, and this is for everyone reading this, not just you, please think twice about saying anything that can be interpreted as slander regarding me or my packs without sufficient evidence to back up those statements. The more I think about it
the madder I get.
I do not really have anything against PSA and Hart. My only pet peeves are he is playing both sides of the candle and while he is at the National, he is basically a competitor who can affect the sales of other booth holders, to steer those sales to his booths.
Mark Murphy used to walk around and sometimes set up at my monthly shows in Bayside, New York and Riverside, CT. I value his opinion.
If you consider yourself to be an expert on wax packs like Mark was, send me your details and identify who in the hobby can vouch for your qualifications. Then we can set up a meeting so we can determine the validity of all of my wax packs.
It's probably not worth the effort only because a collector who only buys graded packs will not buy raw ungraded ones even if they are 100% legit.
If you are at this year's National, stop by and say hello anyway.
Steve
DynamicTwo@aol.com
Steve,
Simple question for you.
If I send a card to PSA and feel it should get a PSA 9, and it comes back a PSA 5, did PSA just slander me ?
Or did they give their professional opinion about my card ?
If someone here says to stay away from you and your packs, they are giving their opinion, just like PSA does.
My advice AGAIN to you is to respect opinions that are pleasant and unpleasant.
No one has accused you of resealing packs. We only want to judge the packs, not you. God is your judge, and when you face Him one day you will answer to Him and Him alone.
Now please post five high quality pictures of the backs of the 68 and 69 opc hockey packs so you can prove here that they are good. I can easily tell based on my hobby experience.
I am 57 and learned from many great hobbyists who are in their 80s or deceased. It’s very easy to tell.
All you have to do is this. It’s not very difficult, so please save us the stories. Btw, your buddy Mark Murphy doesn’t even have pics in his price guide about all the series packs from 1968. How would he know a thing about them. They are very rare.
Because I don’t like grading either, I thought you may enjoy seeing a fresh authentic 68 opc pack back not in a holder. Enjoy ! Now please show yours. I only sell a pack if it’s graded. I know what’s best for the hobby.
Because a guy collects and sells ungraded packs of sports cards? With all the crap we’ve seen the past few years with altered cards in slabs, ungraded packs is your breaking point?
As I said above, totally strange that this guy gets so much heat when you consider how much shadiness exists in the hobby.
@Nathaniel1960 said:
I can’t exit this hobby fast enough.
@GreenSneakers said:
I don’t collect unopened. So if this is a naive question please forgive me.
But wouldn’t it have taken less time to post a pic of a pack than it did to author the four posts above?
Posting them would have eliminated the extended sales pitch which may actually reel in some more rubes.
Completely dodging the question and deflecting is a tried and true tactic. The only smarter thing would have been to just keep quiet and organically let this topic fade into the ether.
Not saying the case here but every Coin, Comic Book, and Trading Card seller, dealer or flipper I have ever personally met that has railed against grading are those who have have something to hide. After all who else would leave all that possible revenue off the table. Once again Not saying the case here
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Comments
Prob a good time to point out that BBCE has been beat on packs many times, including hundreds of star on top cello’s, a 1m pokemon box full of GI Joe cards, and many more that won’t ever be revealed because they will stay wrapped.
With that context, I find the shade thrown at this fella misguided. He doesn’t want one guy, Steve Hart, to grade his packs. So what, this hobby existed long before grading.
Edited to add, I would trust Steve explicitly, but find the idea that he is the only one in the hobby that can spot fake packs / authenticate packs, ridiculous. Would be very easy to beat any authenticator, as has been proven repeatedly.
No one person is perfect and yes, Steve has made mistakes in the past but to his credit he has learned from those mistakes, most of which were many years ago, and I cant think of any one individual that is a more vital and trusted presence in the vintage unopened hobby market than Steve Hart.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I will try and answer every question and if I miss any, let me know.
Part 1.
1 -- Why don't I grade? Come see my display of ten showcases and take pictures of them -- how many graded cards or packs do you see. A handful? That is because I have never graded a thing. I have millions of cards and sports collectibles and comic books and records and yearbooks and programs and TV guides and coins and more.
My partner, Mitch Nat, who passed away several years ago, and I discussed whether it was worthwhile for us to jump into grading. Our answer was defintely "NO" as Mitch wanted to back away from spending money and retire gracefully.
So, I still stand by that decision, and other than wax packs I have really not bought much in the past five years except for empty display boxes and wrappers.
Most of what I own was bought in the 1970s and 1980s, while I was advertising daily in Newsday and each issue of the Sports Collectors Digest. There were days I would come home and find 5 to 10 boxes waiting for me, and then go out 5 to 7 days every week buying collections of comic books, cards and records.
My profit on most items is substantial and if the next owner wants to grade any of my collectibles, I am happy for them as long as I can live with my profit.
2 -- Why do I have a booth at the National? I started setting up at flea markets in 1976 selling comic books, started adding cards in 1977, and started setting up at comic and card shows in 1977 or so, and ran over 300 card and comic book shows including three monthly shows for 20+ years. I set up at my first National in Parsippany and have done over 37 Nationals except the first four. I have literally set up at over 1,000 sports and comic book shows.
The National Committee has its constituents in mind, and show locations must have enough room for all of the booths and corporate sponsors. There are few sites in the U.S. that can house the show without the teamsters assistance. This year in Atlantic City is problematic as it is difficult to get there and a percentage of the collectors who want to get there will not make the trip. Chicago and Cleveland and Baltimore are excellent locations. Most of the mid-West and West locations are too small or will lose a high percentage of east coast dealers who will take a pass that year, hurting the reputation of the National.
It's also only fair for the National to provide that priority should decide which dealers have first crack at choosing booths. Otherwise, the "largest and most important" dealers and auction houses in the country will not get their typical location in the building, which they are certainly deserved of after doing 20-40+ years setting up at the National.
More to follow.
Steve
Continuing from above:
3 -- Why have I not sent pictures of my packs that have been requested?
Let me explain so read on:
I am a hoarder collector/ dealer who over the past 60+ years has been buying comic books and cards in quantity and many other collectibles. During the 1970s and 1980s, I was buying so many different collectibles and had no room to store them in my first house, so I built another basement to store them when we built onto the house.
But I moved 32 years ago, and rather than moving my collections into my house, I rented an individual storage facility about 15 -20 minutes from my house to store everything. Eventually I bought that storage location and I am the only one who drives in an out of that location.
But I set the storage up based on value so that everything with a large value is the deepest into storage -- so that is where all of my collections are -- deep into storage. Any of the newly purchased collection parts are waiting to be placed in that location.
My business for sale items that are valuable are also farther into storage so I can't get to them frequently unless I have a request from collectors for photos or to buy items. But sometimes it takes me weeks and months to keep everybody happy.
I own millions of cards and boxes and sports collectibles and over 70,000 + comic books and 15,000 comic books in my own collection. I could go on but it's pointless -- you get the drift -- you can hardly walk around in storage so I get there infrequently.
Here is my request:
Please send me an e-mail at dynamictwo@aol.com and tell me which packs you want to see pix of, and if they are in my for sale list, I will send you pictures sometime between June 15 - July 25 once I am working on the National. Then it is a convenient time when I will be getting ready and I will be working on my packs.
If the packs are NOT in my for sale list but in my collection, you will just have to wait until I work on my collection, which could be quite a while. But maybe not, my wife has been bugging me to sell my comic books. I hope to start inventorying my comic books after the National, which means I will be beyond where my unopened packs collection now sits.
Sometime in the past few years, a number of collectors doubted that I had a 1949 Bowman P.C.L baseball wax pack because none had ever been seen, just wrappers, so eventually I sent pix off to them and they were convinced that I owned one after the pictures. My price that it was for sale for was the highest price I had every sold a pack for
I also had a collector who doubted whether I had a few Parkhurst hockey packs that I had advertised for sale, and eventually I sent him pictures of the three packs, and he was grateful for me doing so.
I also have unopened Mars Attacks packs and last I looked, only one has been graded.
I have many packs that that not one pack has ever been graded by PSA.
But I have nothing to prove to myself by grading my packs. It just means lots of money spent to keep collectors happy. So I will just sell 10-15 percent of my packs; I can live with that and when I pass on, someone else will grade them.
More to Follow later tonight.
Steve
I can’t exit this hobby fast enough.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
Lastly:
Trimming has been mentioned in a comparison. I have never trimmed any cards, and also got stuck with a MINT Pete Rose rookie card that had been trimmed when it was worth about $100, and I paid $40 for it at a Kennedy Airport show. It was not one of those fake ones but a real one just trimmed to look mint. I've been careful ever since.
I looked at the posted hockey packs and liked the grading of the OPC packs at 7 but did like the 1959 Parkhurst pack as it had way too much discoloration for me. It did not look like an 8 to me.
But seriously, send me your e-mails and any packs you want pictures of and I will send you pix eventually (even though you have never said anything nice about me.)
In fact, and this is for everyone reading this, not just you, please think twice about saying anything that can be interpreted as slander regarding me or my packs without sufficient evidence to back up those statements. The more I think about it
the madder I get.
Mark Murphy used to walk around and sometimes set up at my monthly shows in Bayside, New York and Riverside, CT. I value his opinion.
If you consider yourself to be an expert on wax packs like Mark was, send me your details and identify who in the hobby can vouch for your qualifications. Then we can set up a meeting so we can determine the validity of all of my wax packs.
It's probably not worth the effort only because a collector who only buys graded packs will not buy raw ungraded ones even if they are 100% legit.
If you are at this year's National, stop by and say hello anyway.
Steve
DynamicTwo@aol.com
Does this theater do refills on popcorn or nah?
Steve,
Simple question for you.
If I send a card to PSA and feel it should get a PSA 9, and it comes back a PSA 5, did PSA just slander me ?
Or did they give their professional opinion about my card ?
If someone here says to stay away from you and your packs, they are giving their opinion, just like PSA does.
My advice AGAIN to you is to respect opinions that are pleasant and unpleasant.
No one has accused you of resealing packs. We only want to judge the packs, not you. God is your judge, and when you face Him one day you will answer to Him and Him alone.
Now please post five high quality pictures of the backs of the 68 and 69 opc hockey packs so you can prove here that they are good. I can easily tell based on my hobby experience.
I am 57 and learned from many great hobbyists who are in their 80s or deceased. It’s very easy to tell.
Thanks
All you have to do is this. It’s not very difficult, so please save us the stories. Btw, your buddy Mark Murphy doesn’t even have pics in his price guide about all the series packs from 1968. How would he know a thing about them. They are very rare.
Because I don’t like grading either, I thought you may enjoy seeing a fresh authentic 68 opc pack back not in a holder. Enjoy ! Now please show yours. I only sell a pack if it’s graded. I know what’s best for the hobby.
Because a guy collects and sells ungraded packs of sports cards? With all the crap we’ve seen the past few years with altered cards in slabs, ungraded packs is your breaking point?
As I said above, totally strange that this guy gets so much heat when you consider how much shadiness exists in the hobby.
I don’t collect unopened. So if this is a naive question please forgive me.
But wouldn’t it have taken less time to post a pic of a pack than it did to author the four posts above?
I retract my previous statements. This is too much for a message board. I wish I could turn back time.
I don't believe any of these packs worth more than $100 are in their original, unopened condition.
Could there be a few scattered packs that are original and unopened? Maybe.
Posting them would have eliminated the extended sales pitch which may actually reel in some more rubes.
Completely dodging the question and deflecting is a tried and true tactic. The only smarter thing would have been to just keep quiet and organically let this topic fade into the ether.
Not saying the case here but every Coin, Comic Book, and Trading Card seller, dealer or flipper I have ever personally met that has railed against grading are those who have have something to hide. After all who else would leave all that possible revenue off the table. Once again Not saying the case here
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)