Does anyone know who was this seller in the National? (wax pack dealer)
SammyC
Posts: 114 ✭✭
Does anyone know who was this seller in the National? He got lots of wax packs but none of them were graded.
1
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
1952 TOPPS packs. HOLY
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
I love how 1990's packs and mixed in with 1950's packs!
Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
Make people wonder why the dealer doesn't grade his packs. No one would buy raw packs at his prices no matter how trustworthy he is.
His pack display is impressive.
I believe there have been a number of discussions about his packs previously both here and on Net54. There is a great debate about the authenticity of those packs.
kevin
I looked at a few and they looked like garbage. I'd be surprised if any are authentic.
Edited to add - I didn't even ask him to take any out of the case. I could see enough of the fold lines through the case to tell they were resealed.
You would be smarter to just burn your pile of money in front of this guy.
And run away from the fire.
That 1991 Score pack looks good to me.
Did anyone just ask him outright why he doesn’t grade them?
I asked him once, and he said he didnt trust PSA or Steve Hart. Interpreted: my packs are resealed
How can people not trust Steve Hart? At least he would ship you cello packs that have star showing and u still paid for regular prices without premium.
Steve & the staff at BBCE are Awesome!
BC Steve can prove his 1,000,000.00 fraud is worth 0.00
It baffles me enough people seemingly buy ungraded unopened to make setting up a table at the National profitable.
The fact that he is able to get a table at the National is a whole other can of worms.
Agree
I've seen sellers on eBay sell $200k worth of bogus 1986 Fleer Basketball packs on eBay in a month's period. The same dealers have been doing so for a decade or longer. The line to buy those bogus backs is neverending. If people are willing to do so online they would have no problem doing so in person at a show.
The amusing aspect of this is that now that people like to bust open their packs on Youtube you get a chance to see over and over how fake these packs are. The irony is that the people that bought them seem to defend the seller or seem to leave it up to a mystery whether the pack was real or not even though people in the comments are pointing out the obvious inconsistencies in the sequence.
Fools, money, the the soon-parted thing.
Ah yes. Full disclosure, I ignored junk wax, so it's possible some of those $0.50 packs were okay. Then again, we have experience on here with early group breaks where a certain person was searching 80s packs for $5 stars and then resealing them before sending them to break participants.
Not sure I understood anything in that article about the pack seller. 1st thing he said was that he does not consider himself an expert; but buys unopened 1952 Topps packs. I'm simply lost already. Now before I put any labels on the guy I want to remind people as I was reminded a few times this week that there are those among us that are dumber than a box of rocks that appear to be completely normal. And they are not crooks....just no common sense or awareness of anything. I'm talking perfectly healthy people who are not drug users and simply dumber than a box of rocks. This guy could be a perfect gentleman, honest and simply a nice guy. Here would be my 1 question for him. How much would he pay for those packs if he is not an expert? I would love to hear his response. I think I would actually give him a $20 bill to hear the response. As to the people buying these packs.....my 1st thought is they need their head examined; but I go back to my first point. This does not make any of them bad or crooks. My box of rocks theory.
This is why con's work. They prey on weakness in the human condition.
Paraphrasing Socrates; True Knowledge lies not in knowings things but in seeing through them
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
“If you're paying more than anyone else, you get good stuff, and people remember you for the next find”
Steve Sabow, Vintage Wax Dealer
I found it very funny about Steve's quote above... Which buyer was he referring to? He was the buyer buying packs from collectors OR innocent collectors buying packs from him.
https://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=309616
Jealousy is a very powerful incentive to print slanderous comments about others you don't even know.
I just saw this posting and if you read back through the prior posting on Net 54, you will see that I have challenged the authors to come show me exactly what makes them think my packs are resealed. Just ask for my unopened wax packs list, and you can read all of my qualifications including running over 300 comic book and sports card shows, setting up at over 1,000 card shows, setting up at every National except the first 4.
I am retired from my full-time work but one of my accomplishments was I started and prepared The Wall Street journal's CEO Pay survey for 30+ years. I have written as many as 8 to 15 articles every year on CEO Pay issues, and I have been quoted in every major business publication and major newspaper. I have also written many sections in books and have written multi-volume texts on executive pay for internal staff to learn from.
I am now age 73 and I have never opened and resealed a pack or had anyone do that for me. There is absolutely no way that I would have the patience to open and reseal packs. If you doubt me, please stop by in Atlantic City and introduce yourself and show me what bothers you about any of my packs. Talk to pack collectors who have graded packs and find out what condition the packs were submitted in and in what condition they were returned. I will talk with anyone who wants to spend some time with me.
In fact, I contend that I have sold more individual rare wax packs between 1948 and 1970 than anyone in the country in the past 5 years. While I do sell boxes of packs, I am excluding them since I do not have a decent inventory and would never claim that I sell a lot of boxes. During the past 5 months I have bought many incredibly rare wax packs and will have them on display at this year's National, including two of the rarest test wax packs -- All star baseball plaks and 1968 3D. I will also have a gorgeous Land of the Giants test pack, probably the best one ever found.
I have my doubts that it will make it to this year's National -- but I have only the second sealed 1968 Topps Test Basketball pack to be found. Come see it for yourself if I still have it (I will add it to my unopened wax packs sometime in June or July) - it's probably a 9 or better, like most of my packs. That's the reason my prices are so high -- their condition and how much I had to pay to acquire them.
But if you still doubt me, at least come see for yourself, and make your own mind up. Why listen to others who are just jealous of what I have.
Steve Sabow
DynamicTwo@aol.com
Will you guarantee that someone with more expertise than you will agree the packs are what you say? Or is everything sold as is?
Wall Street is the most bogus, manipulated business to ever exist, and many of the greedy gents from there find their way over to the hobby we love and cherish.
You can run your pack business any way you choose. You’d have many more customers and better cash flow if Steve Hart gave his seal of approval.
Good luck to you. Forgive the slander from those who did. Opinions are ok though. If some feel your packs are bogus, they can opine. If you feel they are legit, you can opine.
Claiming you worked for Wall Street brings your reputation down, not up.
Bernie Madoff did too.
Sad but true.
Uhm, he said Wall St. Journal, not Wall Street. Not picking sides here, since I truly have no dog in this fight, but there's a rather large difference between the two.
Read the history of the Wall Street journal. Who began it. Who owns it now. You’ll see more clearly who he worked for. He kept his job only if he followed “the way” of the company.
It’s kind of like working for CNN or Fox News is like working for the Dems or Pubs.
Not going to get into it any further. Doesn’t belong here.
Opinions are OK but I would prefer that if you do have an opinion, at least come approach me at the National and show me what really disturbs you about any of my packs, before voicing your opinion. At least give me the benefit of the doubt.
Regarding Wall Street, I will not go there as your remarks are once again your "opinion" and I don't believe they are called for. If not for our hobby, and Wall Street, I would never have been able to afford to buy the packs that I own. In fact, in my own collection, I own every regular release 5 cent wax pack put out between 1948 and 1970 from all sports except for 2 packs and those are both Parkhurst hockey wax packs. I would hazard a guess that no one in this country can make that same statement especially considering the fact that I have every Topps and Parkhurst hockey pack but two.
Yes, I will have any expert (except one) who knows more than me review my packs and comment on whether they are legit and unopened. That expert would have to be a non-competitor, especially one who is not playing both sides of the candle.
I have been doing this for almost 50 years and have lasted longer than 99% of my competitors. Think about it: why would I jeopardize my reputation?
Also, while I sell unopened wax packs, packs make up a really small percentage of the sports and non-sports collectibles that I sell. Check out my showcases and you will see what I mean. Last year, I had ten showcases and maybe 2,5 to 3 of them had packs in them. After all is said and done, I was probably in the top 3% in sales at last year's National. But this year we are in Atlantic City, and the past two Nationals in that location were good but not memorable. I set a goal and have made that goal every year in recent memory, but not by very much in AC.
Also, if you want to contact me, posting here is not the best way. Send an e-mail to DynamicTwo@aol.com. I advertise frequently in The Wrapper, and all of my contact details are in my ad in most issues.
Finally, I still contend that negative comments regarding my packs are just pure jealousy. Come see for yourself.
Steve Sabow
DynamicTwo@aol.com
Seems strange to slag wall street on a forum owned by a company that was previously publicly traded and is now owned by private equity.
Goldenage, you're right that discussion of politics and such doesn't belong here, so I'll likewise skirt around that, but SteveS has told us he's now 73, and the purchase of the Journal that you have in mind was in 2007, when he was about 58, so by my math he spent the bulk of his career there working under the previous ownership (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bancroft_family) and shouldn't be associated with the current group. Not to mention that he didn't work on the opinion side, but rather was engaging in business analysis. And, having personally known someone (through a family member) who rose to Deputy Managing Editor pre-2007, I know that they had at least one top-notch person with integrity working there at the time.
Again, I have no dog in this fight, since I'm not going to the National and can't afford pre-1981 wax packs, and am not qualified to judge any of the packs in the photos, but SteveS's career as he describes it argues for more trust, not less.
It is clear that the opinions that are different than yours are “not called for”.
That’s a big problem for you sir. Having worked in the news business for years you should have learned that people have differing opinions about many things.
PSA allows people who disagree with their business progress to post on this very board they own.
You’ve shown yourself as someone who does not adjust well to differing opinions. Our opinions are very called for because there are numerous crooks in this beautiful hobby of ours. More fake autos. More trimmed cards. More resealed packs.
If you truly cared about the unopened participants in the hobby you would welcome their skepticism and not tell them their opinions are uncalled for.
You reaching out to them is kind, but over 50% of the unopened hobby pits their trust in Steve Hart.
It appears that your problem will only hurt your business. That problem again ? Other peoples opinions matter.
@steves sorry you’re getting such hate here - Seems like there is some serious haterade being consumed by some folks….unless someone has some proof….
Post some pics!!!!!!!
Where can I find a price list???
Maybe start a new thread though
This just reminds me of the famous Cobb t206 Wagner
Post pics here of the backs of your 1969 and 1968 opc hockey packs.
Give me four different angles from each pack. Eight pictures total.
Good lighting.
I will sing your praises if the pics show these are legit packs and not reseals.
I will say this in his defense. There are some mint hockey wrappers for sale just on eBay alone that he could make lots of money on resealing.
Lot of chatter here polluting the issue. Question is, will Steve offer a refund if the packs are rejected by BBCE/PSA. Yes or no? That's the only question he needs to address. Steve's career, his age, his experience, are all interesting , and I'm sure well intentioned, but mean nothing to the point at hand. If the packs don't pass inspection, they are, IMO, garbage. As in, worth about the cost of a wrapper and some commons. The only person who is going to buy these raw vintage packs without a guarantee, is a sucker. Who knows, maybe he'll find one walking around Atlantic City in July. But money is getting tighter, buyers are getting educated, and the long line of idiots may be slim.
To my knowledge, a number of long-time and well-versed vintage unopened collectors (not dealers) some of whom chimed in on the previous thread have reviewed these packs.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Steve Sabow - I hope you stay and post more. I enjoyed the posts you have on Net54 about the packs.
I probably wouldn’t buy raw high end packs so whatever Steve does is his own business. He seems passionate about the packs and I’m sure he has enough knowledge to make an educated buy. The Pokémon case debacle shows that we can’t always make assumptions about legitimacy.
First I should clarify one point: Yes, I started and prepared The WSJ's CEO Pay Study 30+ years, but The WSJ was my client and followed me to three consulting firms over that time period. They originally came to me at the HR Consulting Firm where I worked to get the expertise to complete such a survey for them every year. I have never worked directly for The WSJ. Other than investments, I personally was never connected to Wall Street.
Second, no one has shown any of my packs to be resealed and anyone who submitted my packs in the past 15 years for grading have never come back to me to tell me that PSA refused to grade them, and sent them back to the buyer. I also sell consistently to breakers who keep coming back for more; I will disclose that they tend to stick to the more recent late 1960s packs which are less expensive than the late 40s to the late 50s packs.
I did have one pack returned about 15 -20 years ago which was a 1957 Topps football pack which I had sold in White Plains to a collector. PSA returned it saying there was a suspicion that it had been tampered with. BUT I bought a full box of 1957 Topps football packs many years ago and that was the last one left from that box. When I bought it, packs were like $50 each and I had the whole box so it was unlikely that anyone would have even thought of opening and resealing packs at that time.
Also, this is a story that was told to me several times by big-time non sports card collectors over the years. I was told the story by the box purchaser and another collector/dealer. One of my friends/competitors wanted a particular unopened non-sports box. But he couldn't find it in raw ungraded condition so he resorted to buying it in sealed condition. Honestly, most non-sport pack collectors seek raw ungraded condition packs and boxes. My friend opened the seal on the box and found packs in horrible condition including many opened packs. He returned to the seller who told him he should have left the box as is and not opened it. But in the end, he gave in and returned the full payment that had been made.
I would jump right in to grading if I could guarantee that my packs would return in the same condition that they were submitted. No corner holes or tears, etc. I would personally rather have a raw ungraded pack than one that has been graded and damaged. There was a 1952 Topps unopened pack on Heritage a year or two ago graded 7.5 that had a 1.25 inch tear on the reverse. Sold for something near $50K. I assume that the pack was ruined after it was assigned the numerical grade.
I will guarantee all of my packs that I sell to anyone at the National or any other show or through Net 54 or wherever.
But recognize that I take many photos of every pack (that I sell) from all different angles. If there is any discrepancy between my pictures and any returned pack, there would be no refund. If everything meshes perfectly, a refund would be made instantly.
Also, every pack in question has been bought from one source -- and that source has been trustworthy so far.
But I really do NOT need to sell one pack at the National to still have sales in the top 5% of dealers at the National. I've only been collecting and selling big-time packs over the past 5 to 7 years. My inventory of cards and other sports collectibles numbers in the millions. If you don't want to trust me, please exercise your discretion. But maybe someone can contact me on dynamictwo@aol.com and set up a time we can meet at the National and you can take pictures of any of my packs. But before you do so, I will need to convince myself that you are in fact a recognized expert in this area. If I don't agree with you regarding your expertise, then the meeting would be cancelled.
Lastly, I have 3 or 4 1953 Bowman Color baseball unopened wax packs, and I have sold one several years ago. There have been several sold in auctions over the past 20 years, and one was in horrible condition graded and sold for over $12,000.
Where could someone find rare wrappers like these 1953s to make packs? In fact, I have one very rare pack that not one has been advertised in 20 years, and I have 12 sealed ones, some in perfect condition and some in so-so condition. My point is I have over 400 1948 to 1970 5 cent packs and my collection is growing monthly. Come visit my booth at AC to see the only near perfect 1968 Topps Test Basketball pack for sale.
I will respond to all comments or questions on dynamictwo@aol.com.
Steve Sabow
*envy
Well, I am certainly not an unopened pack collector nor do I have the chops to confidently weigh in about authenticity, etc. But man oh man, I do envy those packs.
Good luck with them. They look awesome.
I just wanted to chime in one more time before I exit this discussion. Thank you to anyone who posted positive or negative comments. I am always happy to be remembered. In fact, when I was quoted in business publications or newspapers, and it was misinterpreted by the author and used negatively, my marketing staff would always remind me that a positive or negative quote was still a quote -- and soon thereafter all that would be remembered is that you were quoted.
So here's another quote from me, "When I made the connection with the unopened packs, I sold them as I got them, but soon thereafter, I started collecting them myself. I was able to acquire most of what I had already sold, but one pack that I had sold previously still eludes me.
I really wish I could make everyone happy here but that's just not going to happen. So, enjoy the hobby, and stop by to say hello in AC. Even if you don't buy unopened packs from me, maybe you will find something in my display of collectibles that you will want to add to your collection."
Stay Safe.
Steve Sabow
DynamicTwo@aol.com
Wow! No trimming here because I want no questions about misrepresentation.
Person A "I would prefer you actually look at my packs before expressing an opinion on their authenticity."
Person B "It is clear that the opinions that are different from your own are not called for."
Also, this is a story that was told to me several times by big-time non sports card collectors over the years. I was told the story by the box purchaser and another collector/dealer. One of my friends/competitors wanted a particular unopened non-sports box. But he couldn't find it in raw ungraded condition so he resorted to buying it in sealed condition. Honestly, most non-sport pack collectors seek raw ungraded condition packs and boxes. My friend opened the seal on the box and found packs in horrible condition including many opened packs. He returned to the seller who told him he should have left the box as is and not opened it. But in the end, he gave in and returned the full payment that had been made.
Easy to sling around unfounded accusations and obvious whose opinion you seek to denigrate with this post.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Plus I asked him to post pics here of the backs of his 68 and 69 opc packs and he exited the thread without doing it. Would have taken five minutes to do it.
Steve,
Let me put this in perspective for you because you claim to have almost every Parkhurst hockey pack.
PSA on its wax pack population report shows 1 wax pack ever graded for 1951 through 1955 Parkhurst.
In 1955 New York State had more citizens than the entire country of Canada did in 1955.
The 1955 Parkhurst Quaker Oats Maurice Richard hardly exists. The 1967 General Mills Bobby Orr hardly exists, and Bobby was a phenom. There are less than 10 on the pop report. The 1971 Bazooka Orr hardly exists, and Orr was a superstar by then.
Canada was a small country back then, with very few hard core collectors, and hobby entrepreneurs.
The chances of your Parkhurst packs being legit from 1951-1955 are very, very small. A 999 to 1 shot.
Just one more thing Steve and I’m done. Take a look at this legit Parkhurst pack and ask yourself if the pack has any kind of damage.
A Parkie pack won’t be damaged in a holder because the gum always has stuck to the card. Your packs will return just fine. If the gum moves inside your packs, you may as well use them as hockey pucks.
Here is a 1955 Parkhurst reprint .
Available on the market and can be easily aged and waxed to put cards in. I’m sure the counterfeiting specialists are doing their best.
More old hockey packs with stuck gum. Never an issue.
The rubes who purchase items for high prices that are highly questionable to be authentic are almost always the same folks who will not be swayed by any logical argument or evidence. IMHO those who are so very narrow minded, closed minded, and cocksure perhaps deserve to be conned.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
I get this but if Steve has sold as long as he says, I would think word would get around that he is selling bad packs. Yes you have some rich rube buyers out there but some of those packs would attract experienced hobbyists that would have no problem outing him.
I don’t get the hesitation to send a few to PSA for grading. For the 1952 packs, I’m pretty sure they would get the white glove in Newport Beach.
Like I said, raw high end packs aren’t my cup of tea but all of us have purchased high end raw cards and sent them in with no problems.
I would like to see any rip vids from the breaker buyers of his packs.
The first potential problem is whether to believe the person making the statement. If the person is a con man who is selling bogus packs then everything that person says is a part of the con and not to be believed.
The next issue is that there have been several instances of people selling bogus 1986 Fleer Basketball packs on eBay who have great feedback yet continue to sell these $600 packs. They generally will spin these packs as legit as well. Word has gotten around to many of us that know these packs are fake yet a few of these guys make $200k+ a year selling these fake packs on eBay to the never-ending line of people looking to ignore logic and reason in hopes of finding a Jordan. Basically, word getting around only goes so far and is never far-reaching enough to stop those committing this kind of fraud. The point being, that just because a person has been selling these for a long time does not necessarily legitimize them.
Unless you are Steve Hart, Frisch, or a few select others that you personally know and trust it will always be foolish or a complete gamble when purchasing raw vintage packs on the open market.