PCGS grades 2021 Quarter-Ounce American Gold Eagles With “W” Mint Marks

blu62vette

Announcing a new discovery:

2021 ¼ ounce type 2 gold eagles struck with unfinished proof dies

PCGS has graded a discovery roll ofbullion issue ¼ gold eagles with a W mintmark. No ¼ ounce bullion coins bearing the W mintmark were scheduled to be struck this year, as no W mintmark fractional gold have been issued since 2009.

Very shortly PCGS will be releasing a press release about the discovery.

The error roll was discovered by Gerald Medal (Lakeside coins on instagram) and then he shared it with to me. We have been talking about the error, trying figure it out what it is, trying to see if there are more and just enjoying working and researching the discovery. Not wanting to wait too long Gerald brought the coins to Ian Russell at GreatCollections. Ian submitted the coins to PCGS for grading and to verify the discovery.

In 1999 the same error occurred with 6,000 being noted as struck by the mint with unfinished proof dies. In 1999, 564,232 quarter eagles were struck and an additional 6,000 unfinished proof die coins were also struck. So far in 2021, 54,000 coins have been distributed by the mint, and we will have to wait and see if they can provide a mintage figure for the unfinished dies. Regardless we know the overall mintage for ¼ ounce eagles this year is significantly less and the discovery of the error took some time. Since the discovery we have found 1 image of a W mintmark coin online. They appear elusive and we are curious how many pop up over time.

About the coin: For starters the obvious, a W where there should not be. The relief of the coin seems softer and less sharp than the regular strike. We have not seen any PL look to the coins. Some of the rays appear narrower on the W coin.

I am posting my images here of the 2021-W, 2021-(w), and the 2021-W proof for comparisons.

ianrussell

What I find amazing from this - is that over the past month, no one else discovered the error.

MetroD

@blu62vette said:

[...] Very shortly PCGS will be releasing a press release about the discovery. [...]

The PCGS press release ....

Kliao

Nice discovery. One to look out for.

jwitten

Very cool!

ricko

Great discovery.... I have the 1999 $5 and $10 gold W unfinished coins... Perhaps I will get one of these to add to the variety collection. Cheers, RickO

kimber45ACP

Very cool.

ianrussell

Would anyone know how many of these are struck at the same time? Ie. would there be multiple dies set up at the same time? Or just one set of dies?

I find it interesting that they appear to be in solid rolls (as opposed to mixed in the roll with regular coins).

• Ian

Zoins

Here's a TrueView!

And a SlabView!

Zoins

I didn’t even know proof coins came in rolls!

Zoins

@MetroD said:

@blu62vette said:

[...] Very shortly PCGS will be releasing a press release about the discovery. [...]

The PCGS press release ....

From the Press Release:

@ianrussell said:

This is an impressive discovery in a day and age when the United States Mint strives for perfection. Errors on gold coins are always rare and attract significant interest. We are thankful to Gerald for entrusting us with the first coins he discovered.

It would appear that a W mint mark proof die was used in making some of the non-proof bullion coins that are sold through the Mint’s Authorized Purchaser program. Something similar happened in 1999, when $5 and $10 denomination American Eagle gold coins were also mistakenly struck with W mint marks. Those examples are highly sought after today.

derryb

Only uncircs (bullion coins) get put in tubes, so they were meant to be non-proofs.

Fact that they appear in entire tubes indicates they were struck consecutively and then tubed as non-proofs.

Question that remains is "how many tubes of these are out there." Safe to say at least more than one.

CaptHenway

Best check all of your 2021 Fractional eagles. The 1999 error happened on two different denominations.

messydesk

And still no Type 1/Type 2 mules?

mustanggt

Looking forward to hearing any Mint comments

Goldminers

@ianrussell said:
Would anyone know how many of these are struck at the same time? Ie. would there be multiple dies set up at the same time? Or just one set of dies?

I find it interesting that they appear to be in solid rolls (as opposed to mixed in the roll with regular coins).

• Ian

@ianrussell said:
What I find amazing from this - is that over the past month, no one else discovered the error.

Please note that the recent Coinweek article and the PCGS auction record site for the 1999-W $10 incorrectly states the highest price paid was $87,400 at Heritage auctions, but this was for 129 coins in a lot. I have sent emails asking them to have the article corrected referencing this price. According to the PCGS auction records the next highest price FOR ONE of these is $11,750 in Oct 2016 with recent sales in the $7,000 range.

@JamieKiskis please see if you can correct the PCGS data to reflect the referenced auction was not for one on these coins as people might be confused as the computer program does not realize this was for a very large lot of coins.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/modern-bullion-coins/1999-w-g-10-quarter-ounce-gold-eagles-this-is-the-key-issue-to-the-ten-dollar-gold-eagle-collection-with-an-estimated-mint-total-/a/394-3656.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0

https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/details/1999-w-gold-eagle-unfinished-proof-dies-ms-10/99942

https://coinweek.com/recent-articles-video/the-coin-analyst-california-coin-dealer-discovers-major-2021-gold-eagle-error-coin/#comment-279322

2ltdjorn

said they were being sold through great collections? any idea on value, asking price.

Goldminers

@2ltdjorn said:
said they were being sold through great collections? any idea on value, asking price.

it is an auction, price will go as high as the last two people who really want it are willing to pay. At least $7,000 and probably more. I just hope they were not misled by the so-called $87,400 historical price that was for 129 coins, and not one coin.

coiner

What’s not known is how many were struck. What is the die life for an obverse die? I’m sure the original discovery can be traced back to on of a few boxes depending of when purchased and from whom.

Goldminers

The first two 70's went for $15,811 and $13,500 with buyer's fees. Not a bad result for finding a modern 1/4 ounce gold error, let alone dozens of them.

batumi

@messydesk said:
And still no Type 1/Type 2 mules?

Coming soon!

DelawareDoons

@Goldminers said:
The first two 70's went for $15,811 and $13,500 with buyer's fees. Not a bad result for finding a modern 1/4 ounce gold error, let alone dozens of them.

Not an error, a variety.

Neat, I guess, though I'd never pay $10k for em.

Goldminers

@DelawareDoons said:

@Goldminers said:
The first two 70's went for $15,811 and $13,500 with buyer's fees. Not a bad result for finding a modern 1/4 ounce gold error, let alone dozens of them.

Not even an error, a variety.

Neat, I guess, though I'd never pay $10k for em.

I agree, those sold really high for a modern $10 eagle bullion variety, especially the first one.

The Coinweek article on these was revised today to reflect the lower historical auction price for the similar 1999 variety that I had referenced above.

blu62vette

@Goldminers said:

@DelawareDoons said:

@Goldminers said:
The first two 70's went for $15,811 and $13,500 with buyer's fees. Not a bad result for finding a modern 1/4 ounce gold error, let alone dozens of them.

Not even an error, a variety.

Neat, I guess, though I'd never pay $10k for em.

I agree, those sold really high for a modern $10 eagle bullion variety, especially the first one.

The Coinweek article on these was revised today to reflect the lower historical auction price for the similar 1999 variety that I had referenced above.

That group auction result for the 1999 threw me off a couple times, glad to see the article revised.

coiner

IMO—buyer frenzy. Without knowing how many exist, it’s a crap shoot. If there is anywhere near 1999 levels, it will be time to take a bath on that purchase price

morgansforever

Is it possible that burnished examples exist? Or is this strictly bullion pieces? Makes you wonder if the other 3 denominations were accidentally struck with proof dies.

blu62vette

@morgansforever said:
Is it possible that burnished examples exist? Or is this strictly bullion pieces? Makes you wonder if the other 3 denominations were accidentally struck with proof dies.

There were no burnished fractional to be struck this year, none have been struck since 2009.

morgansforever

Good point Todd. I'll reframe the question, is it possible the other 3 bullion denominations were struck with proof dies?
Guess time will tell if it's only the 1/4 ozer's.

Zoins

@Goldminers said:
The first two 70's went for $15,811 and $13,500 with buyer's fees. Not a bad result for finding a modern 1/4 ounce gold error, let alone dozens of them.

Great prices for these. Will they go up from here or come down?

Goldminers

@Zoins said:

@Goldminers said:
The first two 70's went for $15,811 and $13,500 with buyer's fees. Not a bad result for finding a modern 1/4 ounce gold error, let alone dozens of them.

Great prices for these. Will they go up from here or come down?

Those first 2 prices seem to be a little bit of an overreaction compared to all other $10 modern eagle prices in MS70. Maybe like the first gold Kennedy's at the beginning. There are some other low pop early eagles from 1987-1992 in MS70 and those don't sell this high. Also, there are reports that some additional coins have been found by other people.

However, these days a lot of things sell for more than before, meme stocks, houses, NFT's, so who knows. I wonder if Mr. Hansen outbid Obsession to get the first one?

Zoins

@Goldminers said:

@Zoins said:

@Goldminers said:
The first two 70's went for $15,811 and $13,500 with buyer's fees. Not a bad result for finding a modern 1/4 ounce gold error, let alone dozens of them.

Great prices for these. Will they go up from here or come down?

Those first 2 prices seem to be a little bit of an overreaction compared to all other $10 modern eagle prices in MS70. Maybe like the first gold Kennedy's at the beginning. There are some other low pop early eagles from 1987-1992 in MS70 and those don't sell this high. Also, there are reports that some additional coins have been found by other people.

It will be interesting to see where the pops end up.

However, these days a lot of things sell for more than before, meme stocks, houses, NFT's, so who knows. I wonder if Mr. Hansen outbid Obsession to get the first one?

It would be interesting but exuberant bidding hasn't been @DLHansen's style.

Goldminers

@Zoins said:

@Goldminers said:

@Zoins said:

@Goldminers said:
The first two 70's went for $15,811 and $13,500 with buyer's fees. Not a bad result for finding a modern 1/4 ounce gold error, let alone dozens of them.

Great prices for these. Will they go up from here or come down?

Those first 2 prices seem to be a little bit of an overreaction compared to all other $10 modern eagle prices in MS70. Maybe like the first gold Kennedy's at the beginning. There are some other low pop early eagles from 1987-1992 in MS70 and those don't sell this high. Also, there are reports that some additional coins have been found by other people.

It will be interesting to see where the pops end up.

However, these days a lot of things sell for more than before, meme stocks, houses, NFT's, so who knows. I wonder if Mr. Hansen outbid Obsession to get the first one?

It would be interesting but exuberant bidding hasn't been @DLHansen's style.

True, but maybe DLRC or another dealer with a client who said they want one?

7Jaguars

Wasn't he the one that purchased the 1938 Dime for 380K+?

Anyway, I don't believe (though can not prove) this was any sort of error, IMO contrived. Still it is a variety but I will take "the under" on price development on these....

Goldminers

According to PCGS CoinFacts there are now already 92 MS70's with regular labels and 85 MS-70's with Michael Reagan labels of these newly discovered 2021-W $10 with unfinished proof dies. Another 142 with MS69 grades and numbers going up all the time. Over at NGC there are now already 526 graded MS70 with the W, and another 140 in MS69.

That means over 1,000 already have been graded, with more in waiting for grades. There are also a very large percentage of 70's for bullion strikes. The coin magazines should do a follow-up to update folks on these more recent numbers.

The 1999-W $10 after all these years still has only 70 coins at PCGS with MS70 grades, so it is by far the rarest of these die varieties in top condition. There were 2,688 graded MS65-69 of the 1999-W $10 unfinished dies at PCGS alone, as the bullion strikes found then were slightly damaged more than now, due to distribution methods at the time.

batumi

@Goldminers said:
According to PCGS CoinFacts there are now already 92 MS70's with regular labels and 85 MS-70's with Michael Reagan labels of these newly discovered 2021-W $10 with unfinished proof dies. Another 142 with MS69 grades and numbers going up all the time. Over at NGC there are now already 526 graded MS70 with the W, and another 140 in MS69.

That means over 1,000 already have been graded, with more in waiting for grades. There are also a very large percentage of 70's for bullion strikes. The coin magazines should do a follow-up to update folks on these more recent numbers.

The 1999-W $10 after all these years still has only 70 coins at PCGS with MS70 grades, so it is by far the rarest of these die varieties in top condition. There were 2,688 graded MS65-69 of the 1999-W $10 unfinished dies at PCGS alone, as the bullion strikes found then were slightly damaged more than now, due to distribution methods at the time.

I had no idea what these would be worth when I saw them listed on GC and hung out a 2K bid just in case. I don't believe that bid lasted a single day. These are neat , though not worth the five figures 70's are presently bringing imho.

Goldminers

@batumi said:

@Goldminers said:
According to PCGS CoinFacts there are now already 92 MS70's with regular labels and 85 MS-70's with Michael Reagan labels of these newly discovered 2021-W $10 with unfinished proof dies. Another 142 with MS69 grades and numbers going up all the time. Over at NGC there are now already 526 graded MS70 with the W, and another 140 in MS69.

That means over 1,000 already have been graded, with more in waiting for grades. There are also a very large percentage of 70's for bullion strikes. The coin magazines should do a follow-up to update folks on these more recent numbers.

The 1999-W $10 after all these years still has only 70 coins at PCGS with MS70 grades, so it is by far the rarest of these die varieties in top condition. There were 2,688 graded MS65-69 of the 1999-W $10 unfinished dies at PCGS alone, as the bullion strikes found then were slightly damaged more than now, due to distribution methods at the time.

I had no idea what these would be worth when I saw them listed on GC and hung out a 2K bid just in case. I don't believe that bid lasted a single day. These are neat, though not worth the five figures 70's are presently bringing imho.

I do plan on getting one when the price drops down to more realistic levels, as more are of these are put up for sale. The first few available at auctions always have high demand especially for modern coins. These did seem quite scarce when the initial find was made, but now a lot of other coins have been found. It is starting to look like maybe one full die life, but I have not heard any explanation or quantity estimate officially from the Mint yet?

coiner

These will come down in price. It isn’t to hard to identify the obverse die used and how many strikes were produced.

Byers

https://coinweek.com/coins/error-coins/u-s-mint-confirms-total-number-of-gold-eagle-errors-released/

Zoins

@Byers said:
https://coinweek.com/coins/error-coins/u-s-mint-confirms-total-number-of-gold-eagle-errors-released/

Very interesting. Todd Martin, Deputy Chief of Corporate Communications for the United States Mint confirmed these were all struck on August 24 and there's a total of 7,924 coins released.

This 7,924 mintage is more than the estimated 6,000 unfinished die quarter ounce half eagle coins from 1999. How much are the 1999 coins worth now and can this be used as guidance for these coins?

Here's an excerpt from the article:

Chris Bulfinch wrote:
All of the American Gold Eagle $10 quarter-ounce bullion coins mistakenly struck with an unfinished Proof obverse die were struck on August 24, according to a press release from Todd Martin, Deputy Chief of Corporate Communications for the United States Mint. The date on which the errors were struck had not been previously known. The errors have already hit the market, attracting many bids in recent auctions on GreatCollections.com.

The errors, which are considered mules because they were struck with dies not intended to be paired were first identified by Gerald Medel from Lakeside Coins in San Diego among a group of coins sold as bullion that he and Todd Pollock of BluCC Photos, a Sacramento-based numismatic photography firm, purchased from multiple sources. The pair found the first 61 examples, 40 of which were from a single roll now known as the “discovery roll”.

Other examples have been identified; the Mint claims a total of 7,924 released.

Here's the 1999-W unfinished proof die half eagle and some links:

• https://bullionexchanges.com/1999-w-1-4-oz-gold-american-eagle-unfinished-pf-dies-ngc-ms-69
• https://comics.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinView.aspx?PeopleSetCoinID=3020074

Zoins

@Zoins said:
This 7,924 mintage is more than the estimated 6,000 unfinished die quarter ounce half eagle coins from 1999. How much are the 1999 coins worth now and can this be used as guidance for these coins?

So I looked this up and the PCGS Price Guide shows the following for the 1999-W unfinished proof die quarter ounce half eagle.

• MS70 $9,000 (POP 70)
• MS69 $1,250 (POP 1,920)
• MS68 $1,175 (POP 598)
• MS67 $1,150 (POP 129)
• MS66 $1,125 (POP 31)
• MS65 $1,100 (POP 10)

Can these 1999 prices hold now that there are almost 8,000 additional coins for 2021?

Reference: PCGS CoinFacts: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1999-w-10-eagle-unfinished-pr-dies/99942/70

wondercoin

“Can these 1999 prices hold now that there are almost 8,000 additional coins for 2021?”

I think you are asking the wrong question.

Wondercoin

Goldminers

There are 10 MS-70 PCGS coins listed at GC the next 2 weeks, and the folks who already bought these for 5 figures the past two weeks may be surprised at just how fast prices can drop.

IMO, based on populations already graded 70, these new ones should be selling for less than half the value of the 1999's very soon. When factoring all the rest that will be graded 70 with this new information from the Mint, the 2021-W 's should drop below $2,500 when more become aware these are not very scarce even in MS70.

7Jaguars

Congratulations on the finder of the original hoard and getting it out there. Glad the eager beavers are apparently going to get hosed - look before you leap. I eventually want a specimen, but 69 will do fine at 20% the price....

Zoins

@7Jaguars said:
Congratulations on the finder of the original hoard and getting it out there.

Definitely! What a great story for Gerald Medal!

It's an experience of a lifetime!

Zoins

@Goldminers said:
There are 10 MS-70 PCGS coins listed at GC the next 2 weeks, and the folks who already bought these for 5 figures the past two weeks may be surprised at just how fast prices can drop.

Given that PCGS led the announcement of this in the following Press Release, I wonder if they can work with Ian and the owners to create special inserts like "1st Coin Sold", "2nd Coin Sold", etc.?

https://www.pcgs.com/news/regular-strike-quarter-ounce-2021-american-eagles-with-w-mint-marks

They've done it before with the Nick Yadgarov specimen seen here:

https://www.coinnews.net/2014/08/05/first-four-kennedy-gold-coins-sell-for-20k-pcgs-certifies-first-six/

Goldminers

@Zoins said:

@Goldminers said:
There are 10 MS-70 PCGS coins listed at GC the next 2 weeks, and the folks who already bought these for 5 figures the past two weeks may be surprised at just how fast prices can drop.

Given that PCGS led the announcement of this in the following Press Release, I wonder if they can work with Ian and the owners to create special inserts like "1st Coin Sold", "2nd Coin Sold", etc.?

https://www.pcgs.com/news/regular-strike-quarter-ounce-2021-american-eagles-with-w-mint-marks

They've done it before with the Nick Yadgarov specimen seen here:

https://www.coinnews.net/2014/08/05/first-four-kennedy-gold-coins-sell-for-20k-pcgs-certifies-first-six/

That is an interesting idea. One thing to remember is that some early sales at the higher prices already have significant extra value built in, as there were only 4- MS70 graded that have the special Discovery Roll label on them, so their coins have that extra value already built in as far as low pop collectors go.

Zoins

@Goldminers said:

@Zoins said:

@Goldminers said:
There are 10 MS-70 PCGS coins listed at GC the next 2 weeks, and the folks who already bought these for 5 figures the past two weeks may be surprised at just how fast prices can drop.

Given that PCGS led the announcement of this in the following Press Release, I wonder if they can work with Ian and the owners to create special inserts like "1st Coin Sold", "2nd Coin Sold", etc.?

https://www.pcgs.com/news/regular-strike-quarter-ounce-2021-american-eagles-with-w-mint-marks

They've done it before with the Nick Yadgarov specimen seen here:

https://www.coinnews.net/2014/08/05/first-four-kennedy-gold-coins-sell-for-20k-pcgs-certifies-first-six/

That is an interesting idea. One thing to remember is that some early sales at the higher prices already have significant extra value built in, as there were only 4- MS70 graded that have the special Discovery Roll label on them, so their coins have that extra value already built in as far as low pop collectors go.

That's a good point. I thought there would be a lot more in the Discovery Roll, but only 4 MS70 Discovery Roll pieces is nice for the early winners

I scanned the ones on GC now and the photos don't say Discovery Roll on them.

Goldminers

@Zoins said:

@Goldminers said:

@Zoins said:

@Goldminers said:
There are 10 MS-70 PCGS coins listed at GC the next 2 weeks, and the folks who already bought these for 5 figures the past two weeks may be surprised at just how fast prices can drop.

Given that PCGS led the announcement of this in the following Press Release, I wonder if they can work with Ian and the owners to create special inserts like "1st Coin Sold", "2nd Coin Sold", etc.?

https://www.pcgs.com/news/regular-strike-quarter-ounce-2021-american-eagles-with-w-mint-marks

They've done it before with the Nick Yadgarov specimen seen here:

https://www.coinnews.net/2014/08/05/first-four-kennedy-gold-coins-sell-for-20k-pcgs-certifies-first-six/

That is an interesting idea. One thing to remember is that some early sales at the higher prices already have significant extra value built in, as there were only 4- MS70 graded that have the special Discovery Roll label on them, so their coins have that extra value already built in as far as low pop collectors go.

That's a good point. I thought there would be a lot more in the Discovery Roll, but only 4 MS70 Discovery Roll pieces is nice for the early winners

I scanned the ones on GC now and the photos don't say Discovery Roll on them.

You are now looking at #891257 labels. Check PCGS # 891258. Those are the original 4 with the different Discovery variety labels.

Here is the GC link to Discovery labels archive

https://www.greatcollections.com/Auction-Archive/US-Coin-Prices/26/Modern-Gold-Eagles/92/10-Quarter-Ounce-Gold-American-Eagles/891258/2021-W-10-Quarter-Ounce-Gold-American-Eagle-Type-2-Unfinished-Proof-Dies-From-Discovery-Roll

blu62vette

@Zoins said:

@Byers said:
https://coinweek.com/coins/error-coins/u-s-mint-confirms-total-number-of-gold-eagle-errors-released/

Very interesting. Todd Martin, Deputy Chief of Corporate Communications for the United States Mint confirmed these were all struck on August 24 and there's a total of 7,924 coins released.

This 7,924 mintage is more than the estimated 6,000 unfinished die quarter ounce half eagle coins from 1999. How much are the 1999 coins worth now and can this be used as guidance for these coins?

Here's an excerpt from the article:

Chris Bulfinch wrote:
All of the American Gold Eagle $10 quarter-ounce bullion coins mistakenly struck with an unfinished Proof obverse die were struck on August 24, according to a press release from Todd Martin, Deputy Chief of Corporate Communications for the United States Mint. The date on which the errors were struck had not been previously known. The errors have already hit the market, attracting many bids in recent auctions on GreatCollections.com.

The errors, which are considered mules because they were struck with dies not intended to be paired were first identified by Gerald Medel from Lakeside Coins in San Diego among a group of coins sold as bullion that he and Todd Pollock of BluCC Photos, a Sacramento-based numismatic photography firm, purchased from multiple sources. The pair found the first 61 examples, 40 of which were from a single roll now known as the “discovery roll”.

Other examples have been identified; the Mint claims a total of 7,924 released.

Here's the 1999-W unfinished proof die half eagle and some links:

• https://bullionexchanges.com/1999-w-1-4-oz-gold-american-eagle-unfinished-pf-dies-ngc-ms-69
• https://comics.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinView.aspx?PeopleSetCoinID=3020074

In 1999 there were likely many more made and melted down in the Y2K world didnt end lets melt all the extra gold scenario. Look at the total mintage of 1999 compared to the 2021 type 2. Also these are still not showing up in huge numbers, the 7924 doesnt make complete sense knowing the boxes containing these were not all solid rolls. In the long run I think you will see less of these grade than the 1999.

Goldminers

There are less graded total of the 2021-W vs 1999-W in lower grades, but not in MS70.

NGC Coin Explorer currently shows 983 MS70 2021-W, vs only 111 MS70 of the 1999-W.
PCGS shows 78 MS70's of the 2021-W in a Cleveland Americana label, 5 in a Cleveland Torch label, 85 in a Michael Reagan label, 4 in the Discovery roll label, and 116 in the regular label or 288 MS70's currently, vs a total of only 70 of the 1999-W in MS70.

In summary, of all the MS70's $10 unfinished proof dies at NGC and at PCGS, there are 1,271 MS70's of the 2021-W vs a total of 181 the 1999-W. This data is based on their currently published numbers in NGC Coin Explorer and Coin Facts and subject to change. It seems that a lot of collectors have sent these in to NGC which seems to be grading a large number of MS70's.

These numbers seem high compared to what is for sale, but this is what the websites indicate.

2ltdjorn

mint estimation is a killer on this. can't imagine the first few buyers will not be absolutely buried on these.