Pcgs restoration service which detail grades are candidates and are straight grades possible?
Ppp
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I read the on-line pcgs restoration process, and it was insufficient to answer my questions. I asked pcgs customer service twice and their non-answers were very frustrating. They said both times, paraphrasing, read the restoration process and make your own determination.
Ok, maybe I am an old idiot and I missed answers to my questions in the online version but in the end I still don’t have any comfort resending my coins in. So maybe people on this forum can help before I potentially spend money and waste time sending in any of these coins.
I prefer only to keep coins that are straight grades in my personal collection and keeping these coins as detail grades bother me.
Please answer both these questions:
1) In general are coins detail graded by pcgs that are either “cleaned” or “Enviromental damage” candidates for restoration services?
2) if pcgs restores a coin could/would it “straight grade” or still be a “details grade”?
Of course pcgs needs the coins in hand to make a final determination if ultimately restoration will be successful. Note, in this case pcgs graded these coins within about one year.
I have three coins:
-1877s ddr Fms-801 trade dollar pcgs cert.# 39184021 (xf details 97-Enviromental damage)
-1840 seated liberty dollar pcgs cert.# 41999004 (xf details 92-cleaned)
-1904 Morgan dollar pcgs cert.# 42974622 (unc details 92-cleaned)
Comments
"CLEANING: There is no Restoration process for a coin that has been cleaned. When a coin is cleaned, the surface luster and original patina are removed. Often the surfaces exhibit hairlines as a result of contact with a cloth, a brush, or another medium used to clean the surfaces. Hairlines cannot be removed. Surface luster and original patina cannot be restored. Cleaned coins should not be submit- ted for Restoration. The coin will be reviewed and returned unchanged, and the Customer will be charged an evaluation fee."
Source: Link, Page = 2, Section = "Important Information About Restoration"; Sub-Section = "Types of Restoration Issues"
Good success w/ Alt-Surf & PVC haze on saints.
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(as in 3 for 3
A great way to get a really nice coin cheap because dealers think they are dumping a trouble coin..
You are also only talking about less than $100.
My Saint Set
If 'cleaned' or 'environmental damage' it will not change if you resubmit. The evidence exists and will remain. Cheers, RickO
Thank you for the education and saving me time and money.
I never restored a coin and I find, as stated earlier, the write up on-line confusing.
I will in time find straight grade coins to replace these detail coins.
🙂
There are extremely limited circumstances where the current consensus of wisdom is not the case, but by extremely limited, I mean super duper extremely limited. Case in point, I recently acquired a "World" crown size coin in a PCGS gold shield that was Unc Details, Cleaned. My intuition told me the reason the coin was labeled cleaned was due to the obvious residue remaining from an improper rinse. I bought the coin, conserved it, and resubmitted and it was returned as...
...drumroll...
AU58.
I was pleased with the result. Apparently, the 'residue' was hiding just the slightest amount of friction that brought the coin down from Unc to AU.
Otherwise, it is absolutely correct that 99.9% of cleaned coins have some alteration to the natural surfaces that cannot be undone.
The other flipside and others can speak to this, is the treatment of minuscule hairlines from "light wiping". About six months ago I sent a semi-PL Morgan Dollar into PCGS with just traces of hairlines on the surfaces that could be interpreted as cleaning, but in this case, they were not and it graded MS64. I sent another one in recently that I would say is exactly similar to the prior coin, but this time I received a "cleaned" designation. I'm tempted to crack and resubmit the most recent coin, but I'll have to really study it before doing so. There are many accounts of such "cleaned" coins being either cracked and resubmitted to the same grading service, or sent to an alternate, and coming back straight graded after being labeled Cleaned previously.
Very cleaned coins have no hope, but the ones on the fringes possibly can flip if resubmitted. Same for environmental damage. Some environmental damage is on the surface and can be safely removed, but MOST is physical damage to the coin and cannot be undone.
Brocmitchell: thank you, your response answer one question I had regarding could coins be straight grade after restoration.
One thing that confused me regarding my 1877s ddr Fms-801 trade dollar pcgs cert.# 39184021 (xf details 97-Enviromental damage) is that the label on the slab states “pcgs genuine corrosion removed xf detail” instead of “Enviromental damage”. I asked pcgs several times why the slab wording was different and did pcgs restore this coin because when I got it back it looked lighter in color. I never got a good answer except they did not restore it. I hope it doesn’t cause a problem when I try and sell it.
Regarding the Trade Dollar, there are only so many numeric codes in place and they have generic titles, but PCGS is certainly at liberty to label a given coin as they see fit. I can't say what variety of different labels there may be for a single code, but when they see it fit to designate beyond the generic title, it is likely to indicate to potential future buyers the extent of the issue. Environmental damage is one thing, and it being removed is another. I personally wish PCGS and NGC would provide more detail, even if by code that needs to be cross-referenced. For my mind, there is a big difference between a coin that is "artificially toned" and a coin that is "cleaned AND artificially toned", etc.
Something I can say for sure is PCGS will not restore a coin for free. They charge for this service so you won't find them handing it out for free or without disclosure. You'll get a sticker back with your coin if they think it could be restored stating the fact, that way you send it back in and they make more $$$. I've had NGC actually send me a message mid-grading asking if I want a coin to be restored, but I can't say if they will always do it this way. I think it is wise to do it this way and both services should at least let a submitter opt in to an option to "contact me if a coin I submit would benefit from restoration".
Looking at these coins, I would assess there is nothing that can be done to help them. Being graded as they are for authenticity is the best think you could do to get them confidently sold. The future owner may chose to keep them as-is or crack them for an album. The only problem, so to speak, is you'll only get a percentage of market value for these versus straight graded coins. The old common wisdom is "50%" of a straight graded coin, but this really depends. I'd rather say "less than the next grade or two down" depending on the spread, the type of coin, and the severity of issues.
Best of luck!