Call from retired investment person
logger7
Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have been getting a few of these calls, met with two retired investment people in the last few months. Yesterday I got a call from one, clearly he doesn't know how to do accurate research on coins. His price estimates of what he had are written out on this sheet. 
Yesterday we met and I bought several Morgan dollars from him and some 90% silver none of which had real numismatic value. I offered him based on 15X face and $20 for low grade Morgan and Peace dollars. They had apparently been from a father in law who just collected silver.
The other coins he called on today, were a 1915 $2 1/2 Indian he said his grandmother had left him. So I was thinking it might be in decent shape. It was an AU/BU with cleaning. I told him it would be worth around $300 maximum. The other coins that he had "researched" and thought were worth serious money were non silver clad coins.
I told him if he wanted to try to sell them on ebay himself, I would show him how. My recent experience and other calls I have gotten are from people who think they have something special.
Why aren't intelligent educated professional types able to do proper research on coins?
Comments
They don’t know how to search eBay or google a question 🤔👻
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Maybe he thought he had done proper research, did you ask him why (in your opinion) his research is lacking?
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Apparently they go on ebay and check out listings with the coins they have. Or they go on NGC's or PCGS's website and see big numbers but don't know how to compare apples with apples.
Maybe his wife did the research for him on Etsy?
Most people can't tell the difference between XF40 and MS67.
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
There are regular disagreements here about the validity of the difference in value between an MSXX and a similar MSXX+1 coin, so it's kind of hard to expect non-collectors who have done minimal research to have much of an understanding of how grading and pricing work.
They should do their own research so when the time comes to sell they will get top dollar …
In your case it didn’t happen .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
15x and $20 are sub-wholesale prices. It's kind of odd for you to criticize him for not knowing to ask you to pay more...
The local WHOLESALER is paying 18.4x for 90% and $24 for culls. Pre-1921 in F/better are $33.50 and Peace $s in F/better are $26.25
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I was also thinking those were low prices to pay.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I added the local wholesaler's price to my previous post. He's paying 18.4x on 90%. Even cull dollars are $24. F/better are $33.50 (pre-21 Morgans) and $26 on Peace $s.
Yeah thats a low offer. I offer basically wholesale when I buy locally... Would suggest raising your buy rates, OP.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Well, to be fair, you make more money with low ball offers.
It just seems gauche to complain that someone accepted them.
Buyer did very well paying twenty bucks for Morgan and Peace dollars.
From today’s Stacks Bowers Gold Sheet.
Wow! So you come here to rag on a guy who sought out your expert opinion on the value of his inherited coins, then reveal that you lowballed him.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
This was a small group of coins, I'm not going to spend a half hour with a purchase of several hundred dollars where profits are minimal and offer him prices based on significant quantities that the major buyers offer based on significant minimum purchases.
The math on this are you buy 4 silver dollars two Morgans and two Peace dollars at $20, sell on ebay at $30 or less. Shipping costs in excess of $3; ebay fees 10%. Do the math.
90% silver: Buy dimes, quarters and halves. Dimes purchased at $115, sold at $150, ebay fees and shipping bring profit down to around $20. Similar math on halves. Not much profit.
My time is worth money, I don't see what I paid as unfair at all which is comparable what other buyers around here would pay. Let him go to the two shops that are a half hour away and he might get more on the group. I offered to show him how to sell on ebay himself.
The focus here was on how callers don't know how to do their own research. And on the other coins both clad and the $2 1/2 Indian he wasted a half hour plus of my time.
Also I don't appreciate personal attacks that "jmlanzaf" seems to specialize in. I was very fair with this local resident and he was free to call around for other offers.
I mean, I can find buyers at $30 each on non-cull dollars off eBay all day... Hell look at those wholesale bids from stacks that were posted. Here's another two wholesalers.
Just ask your off-ebay buyers to match wholesale bid. 90% of them will. Your model is inefficient, there's no need to pay eBay fees nor shipping on a per-line basis when you can bulk them out.
This is not even getting into you being $100 off on the 1915 QE. Those are hot, hot, hot right now, it would get 375-425 on ebay even via 99c auction unless it was badly damaged. And no, I'm not a professional dealer here, I'm just some idiot that pays attention to the broader market and wholesale levels and buys shit to flip. You don't have to be smart to do this, just attentive.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I should start selling coins...looks like I have a lot of good stuff - purchased years ago. Yeah... RICKO - COIN DEALER EXTRAORDINAIRE!! No way...
... I will just enjoy my coins... 
Cheers, RickO
I've gotten two small deals from retirees in the last six months; I'm still trying to get out of some of the items on the first one, and one I got certified and is priced under these wholesale buy prices which makes me doubt how realistic they are. And Upstate's sheet that you publish here requires to be legally registered with them to do business.
Most buyers have significant minimums for what they will buy. Apmex is over $2K for their minimum.
On the quarter eagle Indian even certified no problem coins are listed around $400 on Coin Facts:
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1915-2-50/7948
I'd buy at $280 and list on ebay at $350 and take $325, and even that might require a significant wait. The no reserve auctions can be highly risky.
Next time I get one of these calls I'll send them to Sam Sloats and I guarantee you they won't offer much more. I was at another fair buyer's shop last week that paid only $15 each for some Morgan dollars that had been through the mill as "culls". I thought that was a little low. Generally I have found this shop to be honest in their grading and sell prices.
And on the big buyers I have found them calling Uncs, AU and AUs that would straight grade "cleaned".
No shop around here is paying $15 for silver dollars. If they are, they are not "fair buyers".
Next time someone is complaining about dealer offers or 20% buyer's premiums, just remember which side you're on.
“And Upstate's sheet that you publish here requires to be legally registered with them to do business.”
Well, yes. If one wants to act like a dealer, one should take the regular legal steps to do so.
As to how legitimate the prices are, as far as Upstate, They’re legit, and updated every 30 seconds on their website.
Buying and Selling coins for 54 years, 700+ shows in last 20 years, and boy am I tired.
Purchased and Trademarked the Mohawk Valley Hoard
Originated the Rochester (NY) Area Coin Expo
No fair dealer is paying $15/ea on Morgans. That's a ripoff right now.
My point is you can leverage these wholesale numbers to find buyers elsewhere. Ever put some junk up on the BST here? I bet priced appropriately it would move for more than you'd net on eBay...
Take a look at recent solds on the QE
One with a giant freakin' hole just sold for $350. Coinfacts isn't the end be all of pricing.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Hey, everyone is entitles to make a buck.
Time is money
BHNC #203
Recently plenty $2 1/2 Indians have been selling for under $350: https://www.ebay.com/itm/224630947698?hash=item344d0c3f72:g:uAkAAOSwx1BhVyI0&nma=true&si=4EeDeXLR1XqQCiIWOUMcBGuruIA%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 This no reserve auction item sold for around $215.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384426896481?hash=item5981a0ec61:g:ZC8AAOSwCaBhWnNQ&nma=true&si=4EeDeXLR1XqQCiIWOUMcBGuruIA%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=$2+1/2+indian&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=11116&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=06840-5935&_sargn=-1&saslc=1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=200&LH_Complete=1&_fosrp=1
Prices are both high and low and you can discount the high ones as possible shills to be later relisted.
A major local dealer quoted a little over melt. So what is reasonable market? A safe buy price where the buyer is not left on the hook with a problem where he takes the risk or loses money and where the seller, hopefully checking around for pricing from real shops, gets a fair price.
It is whether you want to submit required paperwork to them --actually Apmex makes it a lot easier. And though I have a sales and use tax license I had to contact my state legislator to contact revenue services to put it through.
I'm paying $28 to $30 on VF/better. That is safe in the current environment if you know what to do with them.
If you don't know what to do with them, there is no safe price.
Same reason I get emails and phone calls 'Is this a meteorite'? Answer is usually 'nice piece of slag you got there'. Hail there is so much info (and images) on the web now, come on!!!!
Best, SH
Unfortunately, there’s a great deal of misinformation on the web, as well. And as frustrating as it can be to try to reason with novices who don’t like hearing the truth, I can often understand their confusion.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Non-collectors who are selling coins feel more comfortable when the dealer shows him the prices in a standard published guide book such as an old blue book.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Hmm... I don't think the amount of misinformation comes close to matching the correct information for things like coins and rocks. Anyone educated should be capable of evaluating the info online and making intelligent informed decisions.............
And yet, the investment professional noted in the OP sold his silver dollars for $20 ea.
For example:
I googled 'how to identify a meteorite'
Google gave me:
About 6,590,000 results (0.73 seconds)
The first pages are from established reliable sources, like the USGS, UNM Institute for Meteoritics, etc. So again, looking at the host of reliable info on this and almost any numismatic issue should allow anyone these days to make informed decisions.......... But people still can't. Hmm............