Confirmation of my experience with Regrades and TrueView Images

shish

I think Phil Arnold does a great job and he is usually very responsive. I post this information to make submitters aware of a policy that I and many others were unaware of.

I found the following quote from Phil's post back in May on the PCGS Registry Set Forum. "We don't re-photograph coins for regrade submissions by and large. Unfortunately the system told us that an image for this coin already existed, so taking a new image was not necessary, despite the image online being one that was shot through an older holder."

I emailed Phil on several occasions and expressed my disappointment when submitting coins for regrade and TrueView images and receiving the same old images. I received no explanation that by in large they do not take new images. There are several good reasons why I wanted new images.

It appears that if the system tells them that an image exists they assume that taking a new image is not necessary. You know what happens when you assume. I believe when a submitter selects and pays for TrueView images they should receive a new images, not old ones, regardless of the submission type. I realize that this takes time and the photographers are shooting a lot of images every day.

I hope they change this policy and begin taking new images for all regrade and reconsideration submissions.

Zoins

Is a TrueView part of the regrade service package?

It's not mentioned on the PCGS Regrade page:

https://www.pcgs.com/services/regrade

shish

When using the regrade service if you select and pay for TrueView images they will take new images if their are none in the system. If an image exists then "by in large" they do not take a new image.

Zoins

@shish said:
When using the regrade service if you select and pay for TrueView images they will take new images if their are none in the system. If an image exists then "by in large" they do not take a new image.

Good to know. I missed that you paid for it in the OP.

ricko

I would think a special, direct request for new images (with accompanying fee) would be honored. As stated, it will not happen in general process. Cheers, RickO

pcgscacgold

If you pay to have them photograph the coin and they don't because there is an old file in the system (yet they keep your fee) that is wrong.

It would be like going to the dentist and having them say they found some x-rays in your file so we won't take any today but will charge you anyway. The images of the coin may have been taken years ago. Coins change, technology changes, even being in a slab and then not in the slab would change things.

winesteven

A short while ago PCGS raised their grading fees by a few dollars on Regular and Express service, and they pointed out in that announcement these new fees for those levels now automatically include Gold Shield and TrueView. I absolutely love our host, and while they have an absolute right to make any business decision, in my opinion a new True View should be taken, especially if requested. Some TrueViews are darker than the actual coin in hand.

logger7

It is a tall order since the coin has to be imaged raw before it gets slabbed; would you expect the images the second time around to be any different, have they updated their imaging in the last few years?

jdimmick

If your paying for this service, then you should receive this service, that means new photo's. they can delete the old and put the new in system.

winesteven

@logger7 said:
It is a tall order since the coin has to be imaged raw before it gets slabbed; would you expect the images the second time around to be any different, have they updated their imaging in the last few years?

I believe Phil and his workers do an overall phenomenal job under difficult circumstances considering the large volume provided them daily. With that said, I think many of us have some True Views that are “Not So True” views. Whenever there’s an occasional issue with my True Views, the photos are typically noticeably darker than the coin in hand.

I recently had a VERY significant issue, and Phil and his crew handled it like champs! I bought an 1835 Classic Head Half Eagle graded MS63 with a CAC. The dealers photos looked fine, but before I made the purchase, I looked at the PCGS website Cert Verification, and there was a True View. On that TV, the obverse photo had a large, horrible black spot on the field at 3 O’clock. I asked the dealer about this, and they swore the large horrible dark spot was not on the coin at all, but just a quirk about how light was reflected on the coin when held at a certain angle. I bought the coin knowing I would send it back to PCGS and request and pay for reholdering with a new TV due to this issue. When the time comes for me or my heirs to sell, that large horrible dark spot on the obverse would cause a lower price paid. I chose to first send it in for Reconsideration, and I made a quick request to Phil once I saw it was upgraded to MS63+ and would then be automatically reholdered. He then made sure he took new photos.

All is now good! Here's the new True View. So yes, True Views the second time around can indeed be different!!!!!!

OLD TrueView:

NEW TrueView:

Steve

DisneyFan

@winesteven said:

@logger7 said:
It is a tall order since the coin has to be imaged raw before it gets slabbed; would you expect the images the second time around to be any different, have they updated their imaging in the last few years?

I believe Phil and his workers do an overall phenomenal job under difficult circumstances considering the large volume provided them daily. With that said, I think many of us have some True Views that are “Not So True” views. Whenever there’s an occasional issue with my True Views, the photos are typically noticeably darker than the coin in hand.

I recently had a VERY significant issue, and Phil and his crew handled it like champs! I bought an 1835 Classic Head Half Eagle graded MS63 with a CAC. The dealers photos looked fine, but before I made the purchase, I looked at the PCGS website Cert Verification, and there was a True View. On that TV, the obverse photo had a large, horrible black spot on the field at 3 O’clock. I asked the dealer about this, and they swore the large horrible dark spot was not on the coin at all, but just a quirk about how light was reflected on the coin when held at a certain angle. I bought the coin knowing I would send it back to PCGS and request and pay for reholdering with a new TV due to this issue. When the time comes for me or my heirs to sell, that large horrible dark spot on the obverse would cause a lower price paid. I chose to first send it in for Reconsideration, and I made a quick request to Phil once I saw it was upgraded to MS63+ and would then be automatically reholdered. He then made sure he took new photos.

All is now good! Here's the new True View. So yes, True Views the second time around can indeed be different!!!!!!

OLD TrueView:

NEW TrueView:

Steve

Amazing story!

Herb_T

@winesteven said:

@logger7 said:
It is a tall order since the coin has to be imaged raw before it gets slabbed; would you expect the images the second time around to be any different, have they updated their imaging in the last few years?

I believe Phil and his workers do an overall phenomenal job under difficult circumstances considering the large volume provided them daily. With that said, I think many of us have some True Views that are “Not So True” views. Whenever there’s an occasional issue with my True Views, the photos are typically noticeably darker than the coin in hand.

I recently had a VERY significant issue, and Phil and his crew handled it like champs! I bought an 1835 Classic Head Half Eagle graded MS63 with a CAC. The dealers photos looked fine, but before I made the purchase, I looked at the PCGS website Cert Verification, and there was a True View. On that TV, the obverse photo had a large, horrible black spot on the field at 3 O’clock. I asked the dealer about this, and they swore the large horrible dark spot was not on the coin at all, but just a quirk about how light was reflected on the coin when held at a certain angle. I bought the coin knowing I would send it back to PCGS and request and pay for reholdering with a new TV due to this issue. When the time comes for me or my heirs to sell, that large horrible dark spot on the obverse would cause a lower price paid. I chose to first send it in for Reconsideration, and I made a quick request to Phil once I saw it was upgraded to MS63+ and would then be automatically reholdered. He then made sure he took new photos.

All is now good! Here's the new True View. So yes, True Views the second time around can indeed be different!!!!!!

OLD TrueView:

NEW TrueView:

Steve

Hard to believe that is the same coin from the photos!

pmh1nic

@logger7 said:
It is a tall order since the coin has to be imaged raw before it gets slabbed; would you expect the images the second time around to be any different, have they updated their imaging in the last few years?

According to the OP's quote of the statement by PCGS "despite the image online being one that was shot through an older holder." So it appears the TrueView in the system is a picture in the original holder not of a raw coin.

That said if you're paying for the service whether a photo exist or not a new photo should be taken.

pmh1nic

@winesteven said:

@logger7 said:
It is a tall order since the coin has to be imaged raw before it gets slabbed; would you expect the images the second time around to be any different, have they updated their imaging in the last few years?

I believe Phil and his workers do an overall phenomenal job under difficult circumstances considering the large volume provided them daily. With that said, I think many of us have some True Views that are “Not So True” views. Whenever there’s an occasional issue with my True Views, the photos are typically noticeably darker than the coin in hand.

I recently had a VERY significant issue, and Phil and his crew handled it like champs! I bought an 1835 Classic Head Half Eagle graded MS63 with a CAC. The dealers photos looked fine, but before I made the purchase, I looked at the PCGS website Cert Verification, and there was a True View. On that TV, the obverse photo had a large, horrible black spot on the field at 3 O’clock. I asked the dealer about this, and they swore the large horrible dark spot was not on the coin at all, but just a quirk about how light was reflected on the coin when held at a certain angle. I bought the coin knowing I would send it back to PCGS and request and pay for reholdering with a new TV due to this issue. When the time comes for me or my heirs to sell, that large horrible dark spot on the obverse would cause a lower price paid. I chose to first send it in for Reconsideration, and I made a quick request to Phil once I saw it was upgraded to MS63+ and would then be automatically reholdered. He then made sure he took new photos.

All is now good! Here's the new True View. So yes, True Views the second time around can indeed be different!!!!!!

OLD TrueView:

NEW TrueView:

Steve

Beautiful coin and a striking difference in the photographs. It amazing how lightning can impact the photo of a coin.

1northcoin

Interesting. While the new image certainly erases the dark spot at 3 o clock (as well as the one at 8 o clock) it does seem to show some very slight fine scratches adjacent to the nose that were not evident in the old photo.

winesteven

M> @1northcoin said:

Interesting. While the new image certainly erases the dark spot at 3 o clock (as well as the one at 8 o clock) it does seem to show some very slight fine scratches adjacent to the nose that were not evident in the old photo.

As a 63 (or now as a 63+), you’re going to have some of these “luster-breaks” which may or may not be “scratches”. On a lustrous coin, everything changes as the angle changes ever so slightly. Take a look at a lustrous gold coin photographed with the new “Nu-Tilt” technology, and you’ll then know exactly what I’m talking about. In the case of my coin, I’d much prefer the angle of the coin in the photo be that which shows those luster-breaks than the dark areas that are not actually on the coin itself. You’ll also notice other “scratches or luster-breaks” on the coin in the old photo in several areas that are not on the new photo. Go figure! I agree with your point!

pcgscacgold

@winesteven

That is an amazing Classic Head Half Eagle. First set of Trueviews I would have passed on that coin. Second set shows a keeper. That shows the importance of good photos if they are going to be available to the public via a cert scan.

If you run into this coins sister in a 62 CAC send her my way. It would go great in the Classic Head Half Eagle set that I am putting together.

winesteven

@pcgscacgold said:

That is an amazing Classic Head Half Eagle. First set of Trueviews I would have passed on that coin. Second set shows a keeper. That shows the importance of good photos if they are going to be available to the public via a cert scan.

If you run into this coins sister in a 62 CAC send her my way. It would go great in the Classic Head Half Eagle set that I am putting together.

I got lucky in that the first photo I saw of this coin was not the original True View, but photos from the dealer taken at an angle that did not show the “phantom” dark spots. Only upon my digging deeper before committing to the purchase did I then see the nasty TrueView. That’s when the dealer swore to me the dark spots were NOT on the coin, and that’s why the dealer intentional used his own photos to market the coin. I agree had I first seen only the original True View I too would have passed.

And THAT’s the reason I had PCGS take a NEW True View and do away with the old one, so when the time comes to sell this coin, others won’t get turned off from bidding!

I’ll keep an eye out for her MS62 w/CAC sister for you, lol.

Steve