Are TPG photographers beholden to the graders?
bombtech25
Posts: 209 ✭✭✭
By the title I mean, do the photographers adjust how they photograph a coin to align with what the graders state is the grade? Do the photographers know the grade?
Below are two pictures of the same coin; one graded MS67 and the other graded MS67FS. They seem to support one conclusion but flukes and one offs are to be expected.
4
Comments
I really doubt they would spend the kind of time required to “match” grade with picture. They likely take a few alternate pictures and select the one they think works the best and move on.
Photos are done before it’s graded.
They are independent processes.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I highly doubt it.
I also believe the coins are imaged prior to them being graded
Dave
I would agree that they are separate processes and independent of each other.
For business and sales however, the photo which better illustrates the full steps would of course be highly desirable.
I think the difference between your two photos is interesting.
Nice photography for sure!
Do you recall the difference, specifically, in lighting between the two versions?
.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Nice coin, nice photographs. It really is interesting to see how lighting plays such a huge role in getting good (accurate) photographs. I'm guessing if you try to capture certain details it may distort others.
Remember, the purpose of the TrueView &c is to create a beauty shot, not a mug shot.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
They photograph well over 300 per day. They don’t have time to match their work and grades.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
These are the truviews for the 1964-D nickel in pcgs’s top pop.
When I see that a coin or two in a submission is "being imaged" I get to thinking that PCGS must like this coin. But when I see what the coin actually grades (and it's a one-off grade for real money) I then think, "I rather they not bother photographing the coin if it's not a big winner.". Talk about getting one's hopes up. Kind of like computer-generating email, " Be sure to add your items to your registry set". Enough of the patronizing - I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
People come to very strange conclusions about things based on limited and arbitrary data.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
The short answer is 'No'.....The picture process is independent of the grading process. Cheers, RickO
If I'm not mistaken, they are photographed before encapsulation and after being graded.
I'm not seeing the FS part, just an observation.
One time it isn't FS, later it IS FS.
Just an observation.
This I did not know.
Thanks!
peacockcoins
I'll go a step further with my other post. I have had submissions that go from acceptance, to grading, and then the other stuff if I'm not mistaken. I honestly don't remember. Maybe @PCGSPhoto can clarify!
Five coin regular submission dropped off at FUN, received 7/16 per their website….. grades came in today and now says “being imaged” so according to the website the grading was completed before the imaging- but to answer the OP, no I do not believe the photographers are beholden to the graders- that’s too much conspiracy theory nonsense for me. I think PCGS is probably very busy, a bit disorganized, and doing their best to turn and burn through mountains of coins without losing them, confusing them or mislabeling them. (And don’t forget the occasional cricket…..)
Hmmm... Maybe a tiny crew of masons just fixed the steps on Monticello between submissions?
Like Keebler elves
My submission says Being Imaged and they were just delivered.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Makes sense they would be independent processes, no matter the order they are performed.
Elsewise the photography would be much more difficult and time-consuming.
We've heard that the graders look at a typical coin for ~10 seconds.
If the photographer had to adjust camera angles, lighting, filters to make the coin match the grade, it would cost too much.
am
I’ve had that. It’s an unfortunate status message. It basically means it is somewhere in the imaging pipeline. Probably images are done but not processed. The record for me is about 3 weeks after I got my submission back.
At least it doesn't say "being fingerprinted"...
Only for the forensic level of service.
As long as the photographs are taken before the coin is encapsulated, that's what should matter most. I like what Heritage has done recently with the 360 degree videos.
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer.
Need a personalized album made? Design it on the website below and I'll build it for you.
https://www.donahuenumismatics.com/.
Since grades are partially based on eye appeal…
…are graders beholden to photographers?
Phil Arnold has said that, for the most part, images are shot before grading. There are exceptions, due to work flow. And obviously crosses are imaged after grading.
I seriously doubt there is any link or influence between pictures and grading. They are completely independent.
Lance.
Hi,
Just to clarify a couple of things:
Lately most of the photography is done after the grading. It was mostly before last year, but we have much more product to image now.
We shoot 1500 or so coins a day, and we really have no idea what the grades are as we’re doing the work. Grades are ultimately finalized once the coins are encapsulated and verified by the grader, so it’s a bit moot anyhow. Our concern is getting the shots as efficiently as we can.
Phil
Radiant Collection: Numismatics and Exonumia of the Atomic Age.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/3232
Jmlanzaf has definitely rubbed off on you.