Do rattler holders still generate this type of premium?
Higradeguy
Posts: 23 ✭✭
I was doing some digging through Heritage to check out the images and prices from their recent closed auctions and stumbled upon this listing for a nice looking 1881 Morgan housed in an old rattler holder and was stunned by the closing price of $7,000. Even the next grade up is cheaper than what this coin sold at. Thoughts? Am I missing something?
"Most people dream about their future...only a few wake up and do something about it..."
Looking for COLORFUL and AUTHENTICALLY Toned Early Commems...got any?
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Any number of reasons. Maybe two people just really liked the coin, or someone working on a rattler Morgan Proof set, who knows...
Welcome back after a 10+? year break. You will need to fix your avatar image unless you want it to display as a broken image link.
Collector, occasional seller
By far, the most likely reason was that at least two bidders felt that the coin was significantly under graded (and to a lesser extent, that it might receive the “Cameo” designation). The top bidders probably could have cared less about he holder, other than perhaps, that it offered some indication that the coin had been undisturbed for a long time.
That result should not be taken as any sort of indication of the typical premium associated with rattler holders. By the way, the actual price realized was $8400.
Link: https://coins.ha.com/itm/morgan-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1881-1-pr64-pcgs-cac-still-housed-in-its-first-generation-rattler-holder-this-1881-choice-proof-retains-its-original/a/60216-91440.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Check the price guide for PF 65 or 66 for a hint
In PR 64 the grade on the holder it’s about a $4500 coin.
The buyer must believe he can get upgrade? but PR65 around $6000 money.
Makes no sense to me what he paid as I don’t pay above grade on holder. Deep pocket buyers bid on what they really like / want and it can get into stratosphere especially if bid war. I am sure the consignor is delighted.
With obv spot and circular mark on cheek just don’t see it above PR64 anyhow.
PR64 looks right to me. If the coin actually looks like the photo it appears to be a rather bland proof.
Thanks for the welcome back. It's hard to believe it's been 10 years. Carumba. Took a break to raise the family and now I'm slowly deciding on which direction to go with my collection. The market does seem strong at the moment.
"Most people dream about their future...only a few wake up and do something about it..."
Looking for COLORFUL and AUTHENTICALLY Toned Early Commems...got any?
I always forget about the BP. It does add a nice little chunk of change to the price.
"Most people dream about their future...only a few wake up and do something about it..."
Looking for COLORFUL and AUTHENTICALLY Toned Early Commems...got any?
I think that’s too much to pay / gamble for something one believes may be under graded. Especially if he paid over PR65 Money.
If his total $8400 that’s way out there for me but his money his hobby. Perhaps that is inexpensive to him (wealthy).
Show the reverse. What’s situation there?
I don’t really like the surface haze….either. Perhaps it looks better in hand.
You are over valuing price guides. All there proof Morgan’s are an easy sell currently
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I'm amazed at the number of people who think they can actually accurately grade a proof coin from this image. I'm sure
at least 2 bidders thought it was at least PR 66/66+ shot CAM coin. I can assure the buyer(s) are not trying to throw money away, but are using their grading skills to buy coins at auction that they really like. There are MANY rattler holdered coins which are "in their final resting place" and will never be cracked out. This coin, apparently, was not one of them.
Note sure about an upgrade, but I could see why someone might think it's a CAM. I like it, but not for that kind of $
Many proofs I have seen do not have that level of eye appeal.
He’s a flipper, not a collector.
If it’s not a steal for an easy profit he thinks it’s too much.
@Higradeguy .... Welcome back..... Looks like a couple of people wanted it really bad.... Cheers, RickO
It's an attractive coin, not recently dipped, no black spots, but its folly to presume it'll get a higher grade based on the pictures. At $8400, I can only assume the coin was bought by an "end user." If the high bidders didn't see it in person, then I'll assume they were bitten by the rattler and the bean. Of course, since the bean explicitly says "not a gold bean," I have to wonder how the coin would have done without the green one, which would have implied, "maybe a gold bean."
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
There are a few whales out there buying up old holders of non-generic coins for some reason.
I'm fine with it. They are underappreciated and attrition was high for a long time.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
There was an old holder auction at HA recently - while there weren't any truly rare holders, some of the rattlers did well. This one brought around $1900 all in. If you're a niche collector, you pay what it takes. There are several specific holders I'm looking for and would gladly pay up if available!
He also likes a 40 to 50% margin.
Wow I think it’s quite a stretch for somebody pay $8400 for about a $4500 coin (CDN-CPG) and CDN CAC CPG around $5200. He appears to be end user. I will go with CDN any day over some collector or bourse player. Granted there can be subjective plus factors for the coin that can drive up demand / price but I am the one who decides for me what I pay. But paying over the next grade up not for me. The best explanation here IMO is 2 wealthy individuals got in a bid war. Happens all the time. Is it an A or B coin? Would need see in hand under a glass. The major mark behind lips on obv makes me lean towards B. Overall just don’t see it upgrading. Plus JA just gave it green. Don’t like area above epluribus either. So B coin my call.
I am having a dickens of a time finding a mintstate P or D mint Ike in a rattler.
I'd pay a premium, so yes- there are still some coin types that are more expensive- when located, in a rattler.
(On a side note, I've pretty much given up on finding an ASE in a rattler even though the POPS show there are a few out there...)
peacockcoins
Ok but a B coin in an A package for an A series with a market preferred look of CAMy white. Many layers to the onion and it should be easy to understand why most likely a few collectors pushed it up out of wholesalers range. Good luck buying proof Morgan’s like that for less than 5k
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set