What is the prevailing thoughts on California fractional gold?
Herb_T
Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
Are they worth collecting?
Do they have a good number of people that follow them?
Other comments?
Thank you in advance, Herb
1
Comments
My view is that Phil @PCGSPhoto and team take awesome TrueView photos which make them more interesting than ever
Here's a 1853 quarter.
I also like ones that say "CALIFORNIA GOLD"
Though I have to say I'm not sure why a 1 dollar coin is classified as a fractional since a dollar is not a fraction
Here's another recent thread you should check out.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13032913#Comment_13032913
@Zoins I agree. The Breen-Gillio reference book calls them "Small Denomination California Gold Coins" which makes more sense.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I find them interesting, but the size is so tiny. I prefer the large gold coins - JMO. Cheers, RickO
I don’t think they will ever be popular among the average collector. They are too small and make gold dollars look big.
You may be correct, but I like them because of the history involved.
It's a thin, specialized market. I doubt if they will ever be a hot item. Their small size is a negative.
I like them and have a few. It's really neat to study their details using a decent magnifier.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
many interesting types variations and creators within the 3 denominations. Breen Gillio is a great reference and history.
Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set
successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Downtown1974, Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)
Over the years, I've found dealers that had some of these pieces, just because they came in a deal. I was able to get them at times as a great deal because they just wanted to move them. I've always loved the series.
I would like a few, just because they are different!
It's a very thin market sector; but if you have the interest, go for it. They're a lot less expensive than they'd be if they had a wider following.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
As a few people have already mentioned their size is a big negative. If you like them go for it, but if you are buying them for resale thinking there will be an upswing on the interest or prices then I would stay away. I personally would love collecting something that has a small following as those items can generally be found for cheap money, but unfortunately most of the things I like to collect are popular and expensive.
Good luck!
Donato
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Buy a quality magnifier and they'll look huge.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You may have invented a whole new school of Philosophy with that question!
They can be fascinating. I wish I had started collecting them 50 years ago. I might be done by now.
I think that the small size (like the 3 cent silver nickels) makes them more interesting. Being so delicate, finding quality examples is challenging.
.
PS: They are a fraction the size of any other gold coins
also many unique and low population examples ...
Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set
successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Downtown1974, Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)
Most of what is out there are tributes made later for tourists. The older stuff is interesting but not mainstream
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I really like them. I’m always afraid to buy because I don’t want a fake, which is common, apparently.
BG 501 !!!
Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set
successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Downtown1974, Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)
Over on HA there are some very serious buyers with bids over $15,000!
Now I don’t think for a second I am going to buy a coin like that, more like the $250 range for a decent one.
There are a lot of different flavors that is for sure!
Most people are content with a type set including each denomination in both round and octagon and with the Liberty and Indian motifs.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Not for me too small. But there are those who collect them. Neat coins.
They are neat but too small for my liking.
Collector
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I've been thinking through my history, and I honestly can't remember ever seeing a counterfeit Cal gold coin.
Anyone ?
fantasy tokens - beware the bear on the reverse and/or no denomination denoted on the token.
Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set
successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Downtown1974, Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)
PCGS Coin Facts web site (which is FREE!) has a section on California Fractional Gold coins with a lot of information concerning this series including population and pricing information.. They show pictures of each Breen-Gillio variety. If your coin doesn't match one of these pics, it's either a fantasy coin or a token. Most collectors of this series consider their small size to be part of their charm (pun intended). I find they're fun to examine with a good magnifier to study their details especially considering that they were struck with hand engraved dies under relatively primitive conditions. Some are very artistic and very well executed while others are quite crude. Many are unique or nearly so which is why most collectors are content to just put together a type set with the different designs (Indian and Liberty), different shapes (round and octagon) and the three denominations. Since they were made from native California gold during the gold rush, I think they are a great addition to any US coin collection for any collector interested in US history.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
How good are your eyes ?
No one looks at these coins with their naked eyes. They use a quality magnifier.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yup pers!
A loupe is useful for other coins too 😀
I've seen a many fakes as real
Well, that's something. In 45 years of buying and selling them, I've never seen a counterfeit Cal coin.
I'm guessing the ones people call fakes are the souvenirs which were never designed to be counterfeits, but souvenirs.
Not sure you confused between (period one and period two) fake ones and the period 3 back dated CSDGs? Some back dated period 3 are with a bear on reverse but these are not period one/period two CSDGs. I won’t call them fake. Also, after examined thousands of period one, two CSDGs, I never saw a fake one but I did see many damage ones even they are in slabs.
I've never seen a CSDG with a bear that had also had a denomination. I also have never seen a counterfeit CSDG coin but I have seen many fantasy coins with designs that were never produced during the gold rush era.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Couldn’t you ask a similar question (and get the same answer) as to why there are “Half Eagles”? After all, their names imply that they’re fractional, as well.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was told a few decades ago that some fakes are difficult for even the experts to identify.
It's a different thought as the number representing "half" is greater than 1 in this case, e.g. 5 is greater than 1.
That being said, you would always ask it, though you just might not get the same reaction.
In the case of California fractionals, some of them have a literal fraction stamped on the coin
Though it's worth asking... is it a fraction if there's no line between the numbers?
Before the major grading services came along, I was more concerned about dropping and losing them
If you buy one already slabbed by one of the major grading services you shouldn't have a problem with buying a counterfeit.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire