KENNEDY HALF DOLLARS BASIC SILVER SET, PROOF (1964, 1992-PRESENT)

WAYNEAS

Is this the only set that now grades a perfect 70 DCAM at current finest possible set rating at 73.698
with individual coins earning a rating of 74.00?

raycyca

It is for me. Is there any other coin besides a Kennedy?

WAYNEAS

I guess what I am trying to understand is why would a modern day silver Kennedy in PR70 DCAM dated 1992 to present date earn a Rating of 74.00 in this set and yet in another Kennedy set the same coin only garners a 71.0.

@raycyca I too love my Kennedy registry sets. I have 16.

Wayne

Goldminers

@WAYNEAS said:
I guess what I am trying to understand is why would a modern day silver Kennedy in PR70 DCAM dated 1992 to present date earn a Rating of 74.00 in this set and yet in another Kennedy set the same coin only garners a 71.0.

@raycyca I too love my Kennedy registry sets. I have 16.

All,

I have been in contact with the registry on this set all last week The problem is in the set composite math for GPA and set ratings. There are some easy issues to fix that they are aware of, like to update the the CA and DC bonus calculations, which are on some years and not others. Giving each of these coins 3 points for DCAM results in misleading ratings compared to other sets. Those are also then combined with variable GPA rarity/pop/price weightings for certain years, that do not make sense anymore either.

Currently the calculation for the total rating points per average coin is too high, and when it is all multiplied to weightings and added up you get a misleading GPA numbers like 73+, with bonusses. This set has had this issue for a long time, and it became more pronounced after the 2018-S reverse proofs was added.

Paulina has already sent a request in to the people who can authorize the revisions to the weightings, so they make more sense. For example, I can't see any reason the 1995 and 1997 would have a 3 weighting, as if they are 3 times better coins than some of the others. The 2012 only has a weighting of 1, and it is actually hard to find, lower pop in 70, and more expensive. Obviously the 1964 in MS69DCAM or MS70 should also have a higher weightings than the 1995 or 1997, as the 1964's in those top condition are $2,500+ coins.

This could take awhile as many other people have requested weighting updates.

WAYNEAS

@Goldminers said:

@WAYNEAS said:
I guess what I am trying to understand is why would a modern day silver Kennedy in PR70 DCAM dated 1992 to present date earn a Rating of 74.00 in this set and yet in another Kennedy set the same coin only garners a 71.0.

@raycyca I too love my Kennedy registry sets. I have 16.

All,

I have been in contact with the registry on this set all last week The problem is in the set composite math for GPA and set ratings. There are some easy issues to fix that they are aware of, like to update the the CA and DC bonus calculations, which are on some years and not others. Giving each of these coins 3 points for DCAM results in misleading ratings compared to other sets. Those are also then combined with variable GPA rarity/pop/price weightings for certain years, that do not make sense anymore either.

Currently the calculation for the total rating points per average coin is too high, and when it is all multiplied to weightings and added up you get a misleading GPA numbers like 73+, with bonusses. This set has had this issue for a long time, and it became more pronounced after the 2018-S reverse proofs was added.

Paulina has already sent a request in to the people who can authorize the revisions to the weightings, so they make more sense. For example, I can't see any reason the 1995 and 1997 would have a 3 weighting, as if they are 3 times better coins than some of the others. The 2012 only has a weighting of 1, and it is actually hard to find, lower pop in 70, and more expensive. Obviously the 1964 in MS69DCAM or MS70 should also have a higher weightings than the 1995 or 1997, as the 1964's in those top condition are $2,500+ coins.

This could take awhile as many other people have requested weighting updates.

Thank you.
Wayne

JonJet

I too have mentioned this to Paulina...the new ATB Quarter Sets have the same issue

My best guesstimate puts the errors in the dozens...if not hundreds of false ratings throughout Set Registry

There are even examples of same coin/same cert that are rated differently in different Sets

As the requester for the 2018 Rev PR coin...I feel a sense of responsibility and I will see this thru with Paulina

As @Goldminers pointed out - the 2012 Clad Kennedy is a tough one - but has same weighting as common coins

I am actively seeking one in PR70DCAM for My 2018 and Kennedy Sets

WAYNEAS

@JonJet said:

the 2012 Clad Kennedy is a tough one - but has same weighting as common coins

I am actively seeking one in PR70DCAM for My 2012 and Kennedy Sets

Sent you a pm on this

Wayne

JonJet

Sorry...I need the 2018 - post above edited

WAYNEAS

bumping to keep it alive.
Wayne

JonJet

@WAYNEAS said:
bumping to keep it alive.
Wayne

Not sure if I thanked You for the 2018 Clad tip...got it...and Thank You !!

(now if I could just find a Silver Block Island)

WAYNEAS

No problem and am glad to have helped.
Still looking for the Block Island.
Wayne

Goldminers

Has anyone else called and asked if they can remove all the 2 extra points for DCAM from everything except the 1964, so this set does not have such a high grade average above 71 even? Basically all modern Kennedy proofs from 1992 to present are DCAM so it is redundant for the set composition to reward them 2 extra points, same with the CAM's, like the 1964 which is extremely rare in those conditions. The only one in this set that should have any extra points for CAM or DCAM is the 1964, which is how other Kennedy sets are organized.

WAYNEAS

@Goldminers said:
Has anyone else called and asked if they can remove all the 2 extra points for DCAM from everything except the 1964, so this set does not have such a high grade average above 71 even? Basically all modern Kennedy proofs from 1992 to present are DCAM so it is redundant for the set composition to reward them 2 extra, or the CAM's, like the 1964 which is extremely rare in those conditions.

The last I knew they are still working on fixing the algorithm which gives the extra points to the deep cameo coins. Many of the coins rate a 74 and only should rate a 71.
Wayne
Edited

JonJet

@JonJet said:

@WAYNEAS said:
bumping to keep it alive.
Wayne

Not sure if I thanked You for the 2018 Clad tip...got it...and Thank You !!

(now if I could just find a Silver Block Island)

Block Island Silver Quarter purchased on 10/07 - arrived from CA seller today

WAYNEAS

They sure do not want to correct the issue with this sets algorithm.
I am now officially reporting it as a bug.
Crush the bug and encase it into a slab i.e. cricket. lol
Does this qualify as a bug which would give me my second one?
Wayne

JonJet

A comment was made recently by a Set Registry Rep...

They may be looking to create something that would explain the different ratings/bonus/deductions

Keep in mind...it was only a comment...and no plan of action is in process

No matter how fine they slice it...NO coin deserves the ratings of some of the Kennedys

A PR70DCAM with a rating of 74? 140? 148? 222? And only TWO in the entire Set that are scraping scum at the bottom of the barrel with a 71??

Those same Kennedy coins give Me a 71 in the yearly Proof Set...for the SAME COIN

Just because it's in a different Set it gets 222?

WAYNEAS

Crazy!
Wayne

Goldminers

None of these coins in this set should get any extra bonus points for CAM or DCAM except the 1964. DCAM modern proofs are normal. They should be revised to make them like all other Kennedy sets like some have commented above.

JonJet

@Goldminers said:
None of these coins in this set should get any extra bonus points for CAM or DCAM except the 1964. DCAM modern proofs are normal. They should be revised to make them like all other Kennedy sets like some have commented above.

Absolutely agree...and today I pointed out some of the discrepancies and concerns We have to Paulina

From My perspective and viewpoint...any coin's rating should always be the same - regardless of the Set it is entered into

I also pointed out that PR70 (Rev PR) is NOT a DCAM coin...and doesn't deserve a 71 rating - ANYWHERE

Additionally I mentioned the 1995 at 222 vs the 2012 at 71

She will check with the Experts...so We will see what happens

The more Set Registry Members that call about this - the more PCGS will realize a change is needed

@WAYNEAS

Goldminers

And, of course, we are still patiently waiting, ............ but NONE of the top 5 All-Time finest sets actually own all of the coins that are required for the set completion, because they were retired.

Retired sets should only be allowed for sets that do not have new coins added every year, because obviously when a new coin is added, they will not have it, like many of the other collectors who are still striving for true 100% completeness.

WAYNEAS

@Goldminers said:
And, of course, we are still patiently waiting, ............ but NONE of the top 5 All-Time finest sets actually own all of the coins that are required for the set completion, because they were retired.

Retired sets should only be allowed for sets that do not have new coins added every year, because obviously when a new coin is added, they will not have it, like many of the other collectors who are still striving for true 100% completeness.

Your set should be #1 in ATF as well as current finest.
The 5 retired sets have the best set at a 91% completion and the remaining 4 are under 90%.
I think that you must have read the ending of my PCGS survey.
Your ending comments in this post echoed my submittal today.
Keep the faith.
Wayne

WAYNEAS

Things do look different when the listings on ATF is thru "View All Eras" and not "(PCGS Era)".
Wayne

WAYNEAS

Wayne

Goldminers

Interesting for sure It looks like this has been done on all sets I have checked so far..

Requires selecting PCGS era on each one that has new coins each year to confirm. Some will still show retired in the PCGS era, but only if they are still higher percentage which makes sense.

Seems like a good compromise solution to me. Thanks PCGS.

@WAYNEAS said:

Wayne

JonJet

@Goldminers @WAYNEAS

I agree 100% - No Set that still has coins to come should be allowed "Retired"

In fact...Retired Sets should be re-aligned to give them the same status as a YN - a small R beside the Set Name in the proper ranking order