What a wonderful specimen. The William Strickland coin has an incredible provenance that actually traces back to 1794-1795. A very long and old provenance for a very storied coin.
The slab says Simpson on it, but for me, it would be amazing to say Strickland, perhaps Strickland-Simpson.
@ColonelJessup said:
I would like both that and the Lelan Rogers-Stellar coin graded by a computer program to tell us which is better.
I've been in love with that since the Hayes sale in '85
According to JA, the other
I agree. Decided not to mention that preference because it seemed a Debbie Downer for a celebratory thread. The Stellar coin is prettier than the St. Oswald. My remark was actually more a swipe at computer grading made doubly absurd by any technical comparison of the two giants.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Heritage actually got somewhat decent video showing the luster.
Not bad for a large chunk of silver issued by the US Mint just 18 years after the Declaration of Independence.
Looks like it might be capable of meeting or exceeding the $4,993,750 auction price at Sept 2015 Pogue sale. I had doubted it would get this close when the auction was first announced last year.
This session is about to start live in a few minutes at 2pm eastern on Wednesday Aug 18,2021.
It has this 1794 $ along with the 1861 $20 MS-67 Paquet reverse, each close to $5 million already. Also over $1 million are the 1854-S $5 XF and 1921 $20 Proof.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Decent strength from its $4,993,750 auction price at the Sept 2015 Pogue sale.
Guess the $220,000 price in the 1985 Hayes type set auction was a good deal.
Even better was the approximate $11,400 price at the 1964 Oswald sale, now 578 times that price. (Did a little better than 1950-D Nickels have done since then.)
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Not often I laugh out loud, particularly multiples times, while a single lot is being auctioned off. I did during the 1794. The auctioneer was fantastic.
@WinLoseWin said:
The 1794 $ MS-66+ CAC just brought $6,600,000.
Decent strength from its $4,993,750 auction price at the Sept 2015 Pogue sale.
Guess the $220,000 price in the 1985 Hayes type set auction was a good deal.
Even better was the approximate $11,400 price at the 1964 Oswald sale, now 578 times that price. (Did a little better than 1950-D Nickels have done since then.)
And $200k hammer better than the 1804 “MS68”. Very interesting.
@WinLoseWin said:
The 1794 $ MS-66+ CAC just brought $6,600,000.
Decent strength from its $4,993,750 auction price at the Sept 2015 Pogue sale.
Guess the $220,000 price in the 1985 Hayes type set auction was a good deal.
Even better was the approximate $11,400 price at the 1964 Oswald sale, now 578 times that price. (Did a little better than 1950-D Nickels have done since then.)
And $200k hammer better than the 1804 “MS68”. Very interesting.
It sounds like you’re not including the buyer’s premium on the Proof 68 1804.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@WinLoseWin said:
This session is about to start live in a few minutes at 2pm eastern on Wednesday Aug 18,2021.
It has this 1794 $ along with the 1861 $20 MS-67 Paquet reverse, each close to $5 million already. Also over $1 million are the 1854-S $5 XF and 1921 $20 Proof.
@WinLoseWin said:
This session is about to start live in a few minutes at 2pm eastern on Wednesday Aug 18,2021.
It has this 1794 $ along with the 1861 $20 MS-67 Paquet reverse, each close to $5 million already. Also over $1 million are the 1854-S $5 XF and 1921 $20 Proof.
Has the $20 MS-67 Paquet reverse sold yet?
No. It’s lot 3471 in the session that begins with lot 3235 at 6:00PM CST
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@1northcoin said:
Now 7:30 CST. Lot 3471 must be coming up soon?
The 1861 $20 MS-67 Paquet reverse is about 130 lots away. You can watch live if you are signed in. Not sure if there is a way to watch without signing in. Someone else may know.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
what!? from the fingers that criticizes 1804 overgrades!?
Criticizes? Nope. Acknowledges, yup
There’s enough of them that the relative grades matter. For this one it’s the great gem or the ratty unc. That being the case does it matter if the great gem is a 66, 67, 68 or 69?
what!? from the fingers that criticizes 1804 overgrades!?
Criticizes? Nope. Acknowledges, yup
There’s enough of them that the relative grades matter. For this one it’s the great gem or the ratty unc. That being the case does it matter if the great gem is a 66, 67, 68 or 69?
If it's worth talking about grades for 1804 dollars, why not the Paquet?
Sure, there are more 1804 dollars, but it can still be fun to talk about points
what!? from the fingers that criticizes 1804 overgrades!?
Criticizes? Nope. Acknowledges, yup
There’s enough of them that the relative grades matter. For this one it’s the great gem or the ratty unc. That being the case does it matter if the great gem is a 66, 67, 68 or 69?
If it's worth talking about grades for 1804 dollars, why not the Paquet?
Okkkkk. Maybe the pacquet is a 67+. Dunno - it does have the distraction on the rim that catches your eye. So it’s either 6 grades or 6.5 grades better than the other one…
That’s a far cry from every known example of a certain coin being 2+/- grades overgraded. It’s kinda notorious for that. Shrug
what!? from the fingers that criticizes 1804 overgrades!?
Criticizes? Nope. Acknowledges, yup
There’s enough of them that the relative grades matter. For this one it’s the great gem or the ratty unc. That being the case does it matter if the great gem is a 66, 67, 68 or 69?
If it's worth talking about grades for 1804 dollars, why not the Paquet?
Okkkkk. Maybe the pacquet is a 67+. Dunno - it does have the distraction on the rim that catches your eye. So it’s either 6 grades or 6.5 grades better than the other one…
That’s a far cry from every known example of a certain coin being 2+/- grades overgraded. It’s kinda notorious for that. Shrug
Why do you think that happened to the other coin? Is it due to the fame?
Perhaps every TPG wanted those coins in their holders due to how famous they were?
what!? from the fingers that criticizes 1804 overgrades!?
Criticizes? Nope. Acknowledges, yup
There’s enough of them that the relative grades matter. For this one it’s the great gem or the ratty unc. That being the case does it matter if the great gem is a 66, 67, 68 or 69?
If it's worth talking about grades for 1804 dollars, why not the Paquet?
Okkkkk. Maybe the pacquet is a 67+. Dunno - it does have the distraction on the rim that catches your eye. So it’s either 6 grades or 6.5 grades better than the other one…
That’s a far cry from every known example of a certain coin being 2+/- grades overgraded. It’s kinda notorious for that. Shrug
Why do you think that happened to the other coin? Is it due to the fame?
Perhaps every TPG wanted those coins in their holders due to how famous they were?
The 1854-S half liberty PCGS XF 45 just went for $2.4 million. Which is two bids higher than it went for three years ago in an NGC XF45 holder. Maybe people are more comfortable that it's not the DuPont coin three years later. Maybe PCGS willing to slab it at same non-detailed grade has some effect. Anyway, it is interesting.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Maybe its new high sale price added some value to my 1861-S Paquet under the all boats float rationale. (Will have to wait for the next edition of Jeff's and Ron's "100 Greatest U.S. Coins" tome to find out. For some reason, with each edition, they keep upping the price and/or ranking on the San Francisco minted Paquets even though there are none known to have survived in mint state.)
Comments
WHOA! Well watch out for my "Secret Maximum Bid" -
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
What a treasure!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Those Gobrechts aren't too shabby either.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I would like both that and the Lelan Rogers-Stellar coin graded by a computer program to tell us which is better.
I've been in love with that since the Hayes sale in '85
Wow! Not the money, the coin.
Okay, maybe the money too
What a wonderful specimen. The William Strickland coin has an incredible provenance that actually traces back to 1794-1795. A very long and old provenance for a very storied coin.
The slab says Simpson on it, but for me, it would be amazing to say Strickland, perhaps Strickland-Simpson.
Here are some photos:
According to JA, the other
I wonder if British royalty would be interested in having this back in Britain? Any British collectors of top end US coins?
I agree. Decided not to mention that preference because it seemed a Debbie Downer for a celebratory thread. The Stellar coin is prettier than the St. Oswald. My remark was actually more a swipe at computer grading made doubly absurd by any technical comparison of the two giants.
Amazing coin.... Looks as if it could approach record price territory. Cheers, RickO
Dang!
This is really a stretch.
cool die clash!
Heritage actually got somewhat decent video showing the luster.
Not bad for a large chunk of silver issued by the US Mint just 18 years after the Declaration of Independence.
Looks like it might be capable of meeting or exceeding the $4,993,750 auction price at Sept 2015 Pogue sale. I had doubted it would get this close when the auction was first announced last year.
.
.
.
.
From here:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1794-1-b-1-bb-1-r4-ms66-pcgs-cac-pcgs-39972-/a/1333-3021.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
This session is about to start live in a few minutes at 2pm eastern on Wednesday Aug 18,2021.
It has this 1794 $ along with the 1861 $20 MS-67 Paquet reverse, each close to $5 million already. Also over $1 million are the 1854-S $5 XF and 1921 $20 Proof.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
The 1794 $ MS-66+ CAC just brought $6,600,000.
Decent strength from its $4,993,750 auction price at the Sept 2015 Pogue sale.
Guess the $220,000 price in the 1985 Hayes type set auction was a good deal.
Even better was the approximate $11,400 price at the 1964 Oswald sale, now 578 times that price. (Did a little better than 1950-D Nickels have done since then.)
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Not often I laugh out loud, particularly multiples times, while a single lot is being auctioned off. I did during the 1794. The auctioneer was fantastic.
I hand picked those as the best I could find…then sold the set to Bob a few years later
Those heritage videos make me nauseous.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Spinning cartwheels, over and over.
And $200k hammer better than the 1804 “MS68”. Very interesting.
It sounds like you’re not including the buyer’s premium on the Proof 68 1804.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Has the $20 MS-67 Paquet reverse sold yet?
Not yet. Soon. It’s at $4.7M all in
https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-double-eagles/1861-20-paquet-ms67-pcgs-cac/a/1333-3471.s?ic=hero-1861PaquetTwenty-viewLot-1333-070921
No. It’s lot 3471 in the session that begins with lot 3235 at 6:00PM CST
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Now 7:30 CST. Lot 3471 must be coming up soon?
The 1861 $20 MS-67 Paquet reverse is about 130 lots away. You can watch live if you are signed in. Not sure if there is a way to watch without signing in. Someone else may know.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I think you can watch without signing in.
At least I was able to at this link:
https://live.ha.com/live.zx?saleNo=1333&sessionNo=2
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Very impressive to see all these multi-million dollar coins for sale. Can't wait to see what the Paquet brings.
My lesson, buy fewer medium expensive coins, invest more in stocks and start ups, make millions, buy multi-million dollar coin
How much are “medium expensive coins?”
Here's the TrueView for the Parmelee-Brand-Norweb coin.
And this really is a Coin of Kings, King Farouk that is
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1060958/a-coin-of-kings-lorin-parmelee-and-virgil-brands-1861-paquet-double-eagle#latest
Enough that good investing would turn them into millions?
Why did it grade 67? Looks stellar, virtually perfect.
Does it matter?
what!? from the fingers that criticizes 1804 overgrades!?
Criticizes? Nope. Acknowledges, yup
There’s enough of them that the relative grades matter. For this one it’s the great gem or the ratty unc. That being the case does it matter if the great gem is a 66, 67, 68 or 69?
If it's worth talking about grades for 1804 dollars, why not the Paquet?
Sure, there are more 1804 dollars, but it can still be fun to talk about points
Okkkkk. Maybe the pacquet is a 67+. Dunno - it does have the distraction on the rim that catches your eye. So it’s either 6 grades or 6.5 grades better than the other one…
That’s a far cry from every known example of a certain coin being 2+/- grades overgraded. It’s kinda notorious for that. Shrug
Why do you think that happened to the other coin? Is it due to the fame?
Perhaps every TPG wanted those coins in their holders due to how famous they were?
Yes. I’d agree with that
The 1854-S half liberty PCGS XF 45 just went for $2.4 million. Which is two bids higher than it went for three years ago in an NGC XF45 holder. Maybe people are more comfortable that it's not the DuPont coin three years later. Maybe PCGS willing to slab it at same non-detailed grade has some effect. Anyway, it is interesting.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
99k on the 1836 original proof 64 CAC
Good to know 😄
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
That coin is damn nice. 64+++.
$7.2M for the 1861 Paquet!
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Nice profit for Oliver. Big coins are hot
I bet the winner wanted to strangle the heritage live bidder. Cost him a few bucks.
Glad you were able to keep your two big dollars!
You and me both. And add the 1913 at a reasonable price with the other proceeds
Well that was fun.
Maybe its new high sale price added some value to my 1861-S Paquet under the all boats float rationale. (Will have to wait for the next edition of Jeff's and Ron's "100 Greatest U.S. Coins" tome to find out. For some reason, with each edition, they keep upping the price and/or ranking on the San Francisco minted Paquets even though there are none known to have survived in mint state.)
Great history behind coin, but not especially attractive. If I was spending $6,000000 I would only buy an amazing looking coin no matter how rare