Looks autopen by starts and stops. Might be two different patterns or one pattern that was purposely altered by autopen machine worker by shaking it or turning it as it signed.
Found a Martin Luther King, Jr. signed book which I believe to be a forgery sold in completed auctions on eBay.
It had a price of $5800 but they accepted a Best Offer so I don’t know how much it really sold but that’s a LOT of money to waste on a fake. This sold just a couple weeks ago. Had a generic COA (so it was NOT from one of the familiar third parties many buyers seem to trust). Shocked someone spent this much on what looks kind of obviously drawn/fake.
@JMS1223 said:
Found a Martin Luther King, Jr. signed book which I believe to be a forgery sold in completed auctions on eBay.
It had a price of $5800 but they accepted a Best Offer so I don’t know how much it really sold but that’s a LOT of money to waste on a fake. This sold just a couple weeks ago. Had a generic COA (so it was NOT from one of the familiar third parties many buyers seem to trust). Shocked someone spent this much on what looks kind of obviously drawn/fake.
@JMS1223 said:
Found a Martin Luther King, Jr. signed book which I believe to be a forgery sold in completed auctions on eBay.
It had a price of $5800 but they accepted a Best Offer so I don’t know how much it really sold but that’s a LOT of money to waste on a fake. This sold just a couple weeks ago. Had a generic COA (so it was NOT from one of the familiar third parties many buyers seem to trust). Shocked someone spent this much on what looks kind of obviously drawn/fake.
Cool tool. Thanks for figuring that out for me. $1600 is still a lot of money to gamble on a fake.
Looks like it could be authentic. The letter itself seems a little generic though and might had been sent to hundreds of people. The way the “y” in Hillary ends makes me think NOT autopen. The only other thing I MIGHT think it could be is secretarial but that definitely looks like her handwriting. 🤔 I am thinking it’s a 90% chance it’s authentic especially given the way it arrived with tissue paper in between. They took extra care of it.
Pretty cool letter. Never seen a post 2016 Hillary Clinton letter before.
I also like the end of the Y, and also the dot over the I.
I hadn't thought about secretarial since it looks like her writing.
Plus, she is very difficult to get a reply from. While the content is a little sparse, it does match my note to her. And I like the COVID content as that represents a snapshot in history.
I was just looking at Hillary Clinton signatures online and noticed a couple signed books that looked very similar to the signed book I had long ago. I always thought it was authentic but now I am curious if perhaps it was autopen? These two examples do vary a little, but is it enough to call mine likely authentic?
Mine (we will call this Exhibit A)
Exhibit B
Exhibit C (I tilted this one a little using software on my computer since it was taken at a very different angle).
Keep in mind all three pictures were taken/scanned at different angles.
Any opinions on these two. Dropped 7 autos off with JSA last week and these 2 didn’t pass. The Koufax I got as a gift many years ago and not sure of source. The Maris was my fathers and he was a pretty savvy collector. I’m pretty confident it’s real but looking for opinions if it’s worth trying authentication with another company for either of these. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I don’t know anything about Sandy Koufax’s autograph but have seen Roger Maris’ autograph before although I never studied it, but at quick glance that looks like his signature from what I am used to seeing from him.
On another note, I recently heard that actor Ben Kingsley might be secretarial ttm. I got this Kingsley as a gift from a friend that got it signed ttm sometime in 2018. It may very well be that one address produces secretarial results while other another address produce authentic ones? I wanted to know your opinion on it.
I found a very deceitful copy/fake of an authenticated autograph being sold by a company called The Golden Age of Rock n Roll. I am assuming there are many different autographs they frame up and sell this way. I just saw one today while at a big show.
What is being done is they are color photocopying both the signed 8x10 autographed band photo and framing it up with a custom made gold plated record. On the back of the framed piece is a color photocopy of the PSA/DNA Letter of Authenticity and their own COA authenticating the custom gold record from Golden Age of Rock n Roll. It is numbered in a limited edition of 500. So obviously it’s not originally signed if there are 500 of these. It’s meant to be tricky but at the same time something they can probably get away with since the piece is custom framed and their 24k gold record is included which is original.
Here are pictures of one of their “signed” framed displays (front and back). This particular one is of the Grateful Dead. The dealer was duped as he was selling it for $975 (offered it to me for $650 after I took a look at it). I didn’t want to tell him the bad news because it could had caused a fight especially if he knew he was originally tricked and was now passing it off as authentic so I let it be. Maybe I should had said something?
I looked up the certificate number just for fun and sure enough it is listed. The picture on PSA/DNA website is the signed photo just like the framed one but not in a frame. Also when I saw the framed piece in person it totally looked real until I got a closer look and could see the signatures as part of the photo like a preprint.
I found the original source the signature was purchased. RR Auction sold this MLK Jr. signed book back in October 2020 for just under $5000.
I matched up the book’s signature with the slabbed signature and it’s a match. So it looks like they removed the signed page from the book, cut the page to have just signature on top and Best Wishes removed and printed iconic picture over it. Now they are trying to get $25,000 profit by destroying what was a perfectly fine signed book…the type of book even I would NOT remove signature.
Looks like a German edition. Clearly a rare title.
I just don't know how they do the picture over the signature so well. 🤔
In any case I am truly sickened by this practice as it relates to books like this. To make it worse they destroyed the inscription in MLK's hand.
Furthermore, it is dishonest, and shame on the authentication company for not noting it.
It’s possible the authentication company did not catch this and thought it was a signed print (such as a magazine or book photo). I was almost fooled by this one since placement looked normal unlike the Obama ones or the Rosa Parks one signed over the guy’s face sitting in the back seat on the bus.
It’s sad people will do anything to make a buck.
I can see exactly how they “make” these. They take the signed cut with white space, lightly tape it with removable tape on a full sheet of paper and put it through an inkjet printer.
The print quality of the images I print off my own inkjet printer actually come out really well. I usually print my own pictures on thick paper stock when doing ttm requests. No need for printing through services - I have seen their jobs and find them often to actually be of inferior quality to my inkjet printer ones. Anyway, I can easily see how easy it is to print on top of cut autographs as long as enough white space exists on cut. A lot of times it comes out awkward since the famous photo might not look right with signature in fixed area.
But doesn't the ink create a layer over the pen ink?
I've heard some autograph hunters get blank sheets of photo paper signed and then print the photo later. I just don't see how the signature doesn't get impacted.
It just boggles me as to why they do that. I know, $, but still, all I do is shake my head. And I am more annoyed the book was damaged and the "best wishes" was removed.
So, maybe somewhere part of Kings handwriting is now in the landfill. Sicking.
@JBK said:
But doesn't the ink create a layer over the pen ink?
I've heard some autograph hunters get blank sheets of photo paper signed and then print the photo later. I just don't see how the signature doesn't get impacted.
Oh I see what you are saying. I don’t know why the signature doesn’t get affected by the ink being printed on top of it. I found that kind of surprising too when I first saw these done with the Obama signatures.
@bronzemat said:
It just boggles me as to why they do that. I know, $, but still, all I do is shake my head. And I am more annoyed the book was damaged and the "best wishes" was removed.
So, maybe somewhere part of Kings handwriting is now in the landfill. Sicking.
Looks like the seller decided to sell the handwritten “Best Wishes” Martin Luther King Jr wrote in that book that had signed page removed:
@bronzemat said:
It just boggles me as to why they do that. I know, $, but still, all I do is shake my head. And I am more annoyed the book was damaged and the "best wishes" was removed.
So, maybe somewhere part of Kings handwriting is now in the landfill. Sicking.
Looks like the seller decided to sell the handwritten “Best Wishes” Martin Luther King Jr wrote in that book that had signed page removed:
I know that in some cases just handwriting can be authenticated, but in this case I don't see how in the world those two words were authenticated. I can only assume the submitter gave them a copy of the whole thing and they based it on that. That makes them complicit.
The whole situation is a travesty and totally corrupt.
Hi, I picked this up at a thrift store for next to nothing. I'm assuming it's not authentic, but you never know... Interested to hear what you all think. Thanks, Mark
Hello all! I recently came into possession of several unique on card autographs to include Michael Jordan, Ja Morant, Curry, Luka, Jokic, Giannis, Lillard, and one Burrow. I've heard some conflicting things about them so I figured I might turn to an actual forum instead of the facebook guru's on how to proceed forward. So all have a COA sticker on the back of the card from companies such as InPersonAuthetications, Red Carpet Authentics, and VS Autograph Authentication. In terms of validity, there isn't much to be found research wise for these companies. Of course the best way to truly find out if these are authetic signatures would be to proceed with PSA/BGS DNA Auto Authentics. I tallied up the total and it would be close to about $1700 in PSA fees at the economy price to get the cards both graded/autos authenticated. (Unless I sign up for the membership and go value and claim the cards top value is less than $500).
So my problem is that $1700 is a step price to gamble to see if these are legit autos or not. Would kinda suck to submit the lot only for PSA to laugh, take my money, and say they are all fake.
I figured I'd post them here for ya'll to take a look at and see what you think? Authentic or no? If you do think they are authentic, how would you proceed to getting them graded? I've seen them all types of ways, only auto grade, just auto authentication, card grade with auto authentication, or the whole 9 years for both card/auto grade. I don't think any of the cards would come back 10s if that helps. I would like to pump as much value into them as possible before storing them away in my vault.
Thank you in advanced for any/all help! Happy collecting!
It won't let me post images on my comment, only asks for URL but wont drop it down into the comment. So please see links
I just came across this on eBay. JSA authenticated it but I just don’t feel this is authentic. It looks like a good attempt at a forgery in my opinion. The use of blue sharpie seems highly unusual for O’Connor so that there is enough for me to begin not to like it.
The bidding started at just 99 cents and finished at just under $30. If this was trusted I feel like it would had brought closer to $100 due to the “authentication premium” I often see on eBay. For comparison, a non-authenticated O’Connor inscribed signed card brought $45 because that one looked very much authentic.
One more note, I am not a fan of this sleeve. Looks like PVC and probably smells like a shower curtain. That’s VERY bad for collectibles’ storage. Since I believe this is forged it’s probably no biggie if it degrades.
@JMS1223 said:
One more note, I am not a fan of this sleeve. Looks like PVC and probably smells like a shower curtain. That’s VERY bad for collectibles’ storage. Since I believe this is forged it’s probably no biggie if it degrades.
That's just a BCW card saver. The signature is on a 3x5 card and the JSA sticker is affixed to that. Whoever the owner is simply has it in the card saver for protection; but it can be easily removed.
@JMS1223 said:
One more note, I am not a fan of this sleeve. Looks like PVC and probably smells like a shower curtain. That’s VERY bad for collectibles’ storage. Since I believe this is forged it’s probably no biggie if it degrades.
That's just a BCW card saver. The signature is on a 3x5 card and the JSA sticker is affixed to that. Whoever the owner is simply has it in the card saver for protection; but it can be easily removed.
Steve
Problem is the sticker cannot be removed. That’s why I hate the stickers.
Since there seem to be a lot of sport collectors here I figured I would ask if you think this is likely a ball club signed team ball? I only got a picture of the Ted Williams and Mickey Mantle signed part. I am definitely leaning towards fake but wanted to check with you guys that know sports autographs better. Thanks for any feedback.
Saw this while browsing. A whole pad of unused vintage JFK stationary. Alerting you to this in case forgeries start showing up on this letterhead. This was sold over 3 years ago.
NEVER MIND: it’s dated 1966, not 1968 (looked like 1968 to me, lol)
I was browsing Martin Luther King Jr. autographs and found this. It has to be fake because it is postmarked MAY 15, 1968 - MLK Jr. died April 4th, 1968. Postmarked over a month after he died. It also doesn’t seem possible he signed the envelope before it was addressed and postmarked because it’s from the White House so they likely mailed it already addressed and not signed by MLK Jr. and then the addressee got it signed after. If MLK Jr. signed it before he would had signed it where it is addressed and not where he did, since it would had been blank. Just my thinking. If we didn’t have that postmark clue then this looks like a pretty convincing MLK Jr. autograph.
I hate to say this but that doesn’t look quite right, especially the last name. I hope I am wrong but if I saw that for sale I would be too scared to bid fearing it could be secretarial. Not sure about Biden’s history with secretarial signatures so will need more research.
Comments
Looks autopen by starts and stops. Might be two different patterns or one pattern that was purposely altered by autopen machine worker by shaking it or turning it as it signed.
Found a Martin Luther King, Jr. signed book which I believe to be a forgery sold in completed auctions on eBay.
It had a price of $5800 but they accepted a Best Offer so I don’t know how much it really sold but that’s a LOT of money to waste on a fake. This sold just a couple weeks ago. Had a generic COA (so it was NOT from one of the familiar third parties many buyers seem to trust). Shocked someone spent this much on what looks kind of obviously drawn/fake.
Ouch!
That low price should have been a red flag for the buyer.
Cool tool. Thanks for figuring that out for me. $1600 is still a lot of money to gamble on a fake.
most likely the buyer thought they got a great deal & will now try to flip it
IMF
I hesitate to post this as the photos look worse than in person.
It is a letter from Hillary Clinton.
It does not match the first name aitopens from 2016 that I found on another site.
Points in its favor:
So, that's my wishful thinking. Any opinions?
Looks like it could be authentic. The letter itself seems a little generic though and might had been sent to hundreds of people. The way the “y” in Hillary ends makes me think NOT autopen. The only other thing I MIGHT think it could be is secretarial but that definitely looks like her handwriting. 🤔 I am thinking it’s a 90% chance it’s authentic especially given the way it arrived with tissue paper in between. They took extra care of it.
Pretty cool letter. Never seen a post 2016 Hillary Clinton letter before.
Thx! That's what I was looking for!
I also like the end of the Y, and also the dot over the I.
I hadn't thought about secretarial since it looks like her writing.
Plus, she is very difficult to get a reply from. While the content is a little sparse, it does match my note to her. And I like the COVID content as that represents a snapshot in history.
I was just looking at Hillary Clinton signatures online and noticed a couple signed books that looked very similar to the signed book I had long ago. I always thought it was authentic but now I am curious if perhaps it was autopen? These two examples do vary a little, but is it enough to call mine likely authentic?
Mine (we will call this Exhibit A)
Exhibit B
Exhibit C (I tilted this one a little using software on my computer since it was taken at a very different angle).
Keep in mind all three pictures were taken/scanned at different angles.
I definitely see multiple differences.
That’s what I thought but I got scared as many other signatures in this same book looked WAY different.
Any opinions on these two. Dropped 7 autos off with JSA last week and these 2 didn’t pass. The Koufax I got as a gift many years ago and not sure of source. The Maris was my fathers and he was a pretty savvy collector. I’m pretty confident it’s real but looking for opinions if it’s worth trying authentication with another company for either of these. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I don’t know anything about Sandy Koufax’s autograph but have seen Roger Maris’ autograph before although I never studied it, but at quick glance that looks like his signature from what I am used to seeing from him.
On another note, I recently heard that actor Ben Kingsley might be secretarial ttm. I got this Kingsley as a gift from a friend that got it signed ttm sometime in 2018. It may very well be that one address produces secretarial results while other another address produce authentic ones? I wanted to know your opinion on it.
I agree with the Koufax assessment since it appears to be slowly written.....No opinion on the Maris either way
IMF
BUYERS BEEARE!
I found a very deceitful copy/fake of an authenticated autograph being sold by a company called The Golden Age of Rock n Roll. I am assuming there are many different autographs they frame up and sell this way. I just saw one today while at a big show.
What is being done is they are color photocopying both the signed 8x10 autographed band photo and framing it up with a custom made gold plated record. On the back of the framed piece is a color photocopy of the PSA/DNA Letter of Authenticity and their own COA authenticating the custom gold record from Golden Age of Rock n Roll. It is numbered in a limited edition of 500. So obviously it’s not originally signed if there are 500 of these. It’s meant to be tricky but at the same time something they can probably get away with since the piece is custom framed and their 24k gold record is included which is original.
Here are pictures of one of their “signed” framed displays (front and back). This particular one is of the Grateful Dead. The dealer was duped as he was selling it for $975 (offered it to me for $650 after I took a look at it). I didn’t want to tell him the bad news because it could had caused a fight especially if he knew he was originally tricked and was now passing it off as authentic so I let it be. Maybe I should had said something?
I looked up the certificate number just for fun and sure enough it is listed. The picture on PSA/DNA website is the signed photo just like the framed one but not in a frame. Also when I saw the framed piece in person it totally looked real until I got a closer look and could see the signatures as part of the photo like a preprint.
Not really questioning the signature itself here but rather was this photo actually signed or did someone print the photo over the signature?
Thoughts?
Price $30,000 so it could be actually signed photo. So hard to tell though.
Uneven at the top, and the label says "print".
Maybe cut from a book or pamphlet?
Or, maybe that Obama photo expert added the photo to a signed cut.
In any case, something was butchered to create that.
I just did some digging and it was altered/added.
I found the original source the signature was purchased. RR Auction sold this MLK Jr. signed book back in October 2020 for just under $5000.
I matched up the book’s signature with the slabbed signature and it’s a match. So it looks like they removed the signed page from the book, cut the page to have just signature on top and Best Wishes removed and printed iconic picture over it. Now they are trying to get $25,000 profit by destroying what was a perfectly fine signed book…the type of book even I would NOT remove signature.
Excellent detective work!
Looks like a German edition. Clearly a rare title.
I just don't know how they do the picture over the signature so well. 🤔
In any case I am truly sickened by this practice as it relates to books like this. To make it worse they destroyed the inscription in MLK's hand.
Furthermore, it is dishonest, and shame on the authentication company for not noting it.
It’s possible the authentication company did not catch this and thought it was a signed print (such as a magazine or book photo). I was almost fooled by this one since placement looked normal unlike the Obama ones or the Rosa Parks one signed over the guy’s face sitting in the back seat on the bus.
It’s sad people will do anything to make a buck.
I can see exactly how they “make” these. They take the signed cut with white space, lightly tape it with removable tape on a full sheet of paper and put it through an inkjet printer.
The print quality of the images I print off my own inkjet printer actually come out really well. I usually print my own pictures on thick paper stock when doing ttm requests. No need for printing through services - I have seen their jobs and find them often to actually be of inferior quality to my inkjet printer ones. Anyway, I can easily see how easy it is to print on top of cut autographs as long as enough white space exists on cut. A lot of times it comes out awkward since the famous photo might not look right with signature in fixed area.
But doesn't the ink create a layer over the pen ink?
I've heard some autograph hunters get blank sheets of photo paper signed and then print the photo later. I just don't see how the signature doesn't get impacted.
It just boggles me as to why they do that. I know, $, but still, all I do is shake my head. And I am more annoyed the book was damaged and the "best wishes" was removed.
So, maybe somewhere part of Kings handwriting is now in the landfill. Sicking.
Oh I see what you are saying. I don’t know why the signature doesn’t get affected by the ink being printed on top of it. I found that kind of surprising too when I first saw these done with the Obama signatures.
Looks like the seller decided to sell the handwritten “Best Wishes” Martin Luther King Jr wrote in that book that had signed page removed:
All for the great low price of just $1500
Wow, what can really be said about that.
I am speechless.
I know that in some cases just handwriting can be authenticated, but in this case I don't see how in the world those two words were authenticated. I can only assume the submitter gave them a copy of the whole thing and they based it on that. That makes them complicit.
The whole situation is a travesty and totally corrupt.
Hi, I picked this up at a thrift store for next to nothing. I'm assuming it's not authentic, but you never know... Interested to hear what you all think. Thanks, Mark
Looks like a common fake, below is a real one through the mail.
I didn’t know Bob Dylan signed ttm at one point. I know he is notoriously difficult to get in person.
Thanks, I figured as much. Either way, a great album!
Hello all! I recently came into possession of several unique on card autographs to include Michael Jordan, Ja Morant, Curry, Luka, Jokic, Giannis, Lillard, and one Burrow. I've heard some conflicting things about them so I figured I might turn to an actual forum instead of the facebook guru's on how to proceed forward. So all have a COA sticker on the back of the card from companies such as InPersonAuthetications, Red Carpet Authentics, and VS Autograph Authentication. In terms of validity, there isn't much to be found research wise for these companies. Of course the best way to truly find out if these are authetic signatures would be to proceed with PSA/BGS DNA Auto Authentics. I tallied up the total and it would be close to about $1700 in PSA fees at the economy price to get the cards both graded/autos authenticated. (Unless I sign up for the membership and go value and claim the cards top value is less than $500).
So my problem is that $1700 is a step price to gamble to see if these are legit autos or not. Would kinda suck to submit the lot only for PSA to laugh, take my money, and say they are all fake.
I figured I'd post them here for ya'll to take a look at and see what you think? Authentic or no? If you do think they are authentic, how would you proceed to getting them graded? I've seen them all types of ways, only auto grade, just auto authentication, card grade with auto authentication, or the whole 9 years for both card/auto grade. I don't think any of the cards would come back 10s if that helps. I would like to pump as much value into them as possible before storing them away in my vault.
Thank you in advanced for any/all help! Happy collecting!
It won't let me post images on my comment, only asks for URL but wont drop it down into the comment. So please see links
https://imgur.com/DmqzoyN
https://imgur.com/pdpN78b
https://imgur.com/vwVU8pL
https://imgur.com/ksDUMuv
https://imgur.com/rtHyxvp
https://imgur.com/mupg9h1
I just came across this on eBay. JSA authenticated it but I just don’t feel this is authentic. It looks like a good attempt at a forgery in my opinion. The use of blue sharpie seems highly unusual for O’Connor so that there is enough for me to begin not to like it.
The bidding started at just 99 cents and finished at just under $30. If this was trusted I feel like it would had brought closer to $100 due to the “authentication premium” I often see on eBay. For comparison, a non-authenticated O’Connor inscribed signed card brought $45 because that one looked very much authentic.
One more note, I am not a fan of this sleeve. Looks like PVC and probably smells like a shower curtain. That’s VERY bad for collectibles’ storage. Since I believe this is forged it’s probably no biggie if it degrades.
That's just a BCW card saver. The signature is on a 3x5 card and the JSA sticker is affixed to that. Whoever the owner is simply has it in the card saver for protection; but it can be easily removed.
Steve
Problem is the sticker cannot be removed. That’s why I hate the stickers.
At first I thought it looked OK, but I don't like the "an" in Sandra, and I don't like the way the "o"s in the last name hang below everything else.
Then there's that prominent JSA sticker.... That is not an item I would buy.
I just found this fake/forgery on eBay. It’s an autopen book with a forged inscription. So we got to beware of this type of thing happening now too.
Thought I would put this here since it’s a pretty convincing looking stamped signature.
Unfortunately the seller is trying to sell this as authentic for $17,000. I believe it to be a stamped signature.
Since there seem to be a lot of sport collectors here I figured I would ask if you think this is likely a ball club signed team ball? I only got a picture of the Ted Williams and Mickey Mantle signed part. I am definitely leaning towards fake but wanted to check with you guys that know sports autographs better. Thanks for any feedback.
I'd say no unfortunately
IMG
I'm not an expert on these, but those look like they might be the problematic "banana" Ms on the Mantle.
Yes...they call those "Monkey" Mantle
IMF
I've been looking to buy a Hank Aaron autograph and I wondered what everyone here thought about this one.
I like it
IMF
Saw this while browsing. A whole pad of unused vintage JFK stationary. Alerting you to this in case forgeries start showing up on this letterhead. This was sold over 3 years ago.
NEVER MIND: it’s dated 1966, not 1968 (looked like 1968 to me, lol)
I was browsing Martin Luther King Jr. autographs and found this. It has to be fake because it is postmarked MAY 15, 1968 - MLK Jr. died April 4th, 1968. Postmarked over a month after he died. It also doesn’t seem possible he signed the envelope before it was addressed and postmarked because it’s from the White House so they likely mailed it already addressed and not signed by MLK Jr. and then the addressee got it signed after. If MLK Jr. signed it before he would had signed it where it is addressed and not where he did, since it would had been blank. Just my thinking. If we didn’t have that postmark clue then this looks like a pretty convincing MLK Jr. autograph.
Thanks Ironmanfan.
Joe Biden from when he ran for president in 1988. From his campaign office, about 5x7. Any opinions? Thx.
I hate to say this but that doesn’t look quite right, especially the last name. I hope I am wrong but if I saw that for sale I would be too scared to bid fearing it could be secretarial. Not sure about Biden’s history with secretarial signatures so will need more research.