newman rings vs newton rings info:
blurryface
Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
“hello newman”
not sure what to actually call these. often times they get labeled as “newton rings” and collectors often think that it is an optical illusion that causes zero harm to the cards they appear on. i have zero experience in the comic book world but apparently these occur quite often in holdered books however cause zero damage. just putting these pics out there so folks know that the phenomenon that occurs w comics does not automatically equate to zero damage when it comes to trading cards. while the appearance is eerily similar, the damage can be quite real. while instances of newton rings in psa holders could still be just that, there are several instances, especially that of a certain range of panini cards coupled w the plastic inner pvc sleeve that can cause a perhaps chemical(?) reaction that leaves a sticky’ish residue. sometimes it quite certainly resembles the look of newton rings. while i am no chemist, from my limited experience in the modern arena, these “newman” rings are caused by a mixture of:
- humidity. particularly that of the coastal south east.
- inferior penny sleeves (will post pics of ones to avoid/use below)
- panini cards from at least 2016 - 2019. esp optic & mosaic. these years listed are merely from my experience.
i have learned the hard way. most of this stuff was ripped during the past year. i would like to reiterate that this isnt caused by years of sitting in a high heated storage unit and left unattended for months on end. these effects can literally take a effect after a week or so. i literally ripped a case of 2018 optic this past winter, penny sleeved the hits, placed in a box to review for grading candidates at a later time and to my dismay this happened literally a week or so later when i was sorting. during that time that passed from rip to sort, the cards were stored in my climate controlled man cave in the same environment that i keep my mantles in:
what i havent figured out is why this doesnt happen w every card under the same conditions. some experienced this damage. some didnt. and those that did had a very wide degree of damage/residue that was left behind on the card’s surface.
one thing ive noticed that helps reduce this from happening is to use a thicker gauged penny sleeve and to not overload a box with cards. ie not sandwich them as tight as can be in a box. if you are temporarily storing them in a 50ct box, only put 40 cards in there, not 50. while the cards are made by “panini”, you dont want to “panini press” them.
how to reduce the damage if its happened to you. it took a lil trial and error to help minimize the damage. first thing is do NOT try to peel the penny sleeve off the card. you want to stick it in a bag of rice for a day, penny sleeve still on. once youve done that, and this is very important, you want to push the card out of the penny sleeve from the bottom of the sleeve/card. do not try to peel it off from the top opening. it will leave the rings and residue on the card just like the pictured example above. once the card is out of the penny sleeve, allow it to sit out near a very low level heat source for a couple of hours. under a desk lamp perhaps. once youve done all of that, grab a new microfiber and in a circular motion (think karate kid, wax on - wax off) with extremely light pressure clean the surface. if you put too much pressure on the cards surface you will smear or rub that residue all over the surface. like spilt wine on a carpet, you basically want to blot, not rub it in.
penny sleeves to use that make a noticeable difference:
penny sleeves to avoid at all costs:
while both are made by ultra pro and claim to be “pvc & acid free”, the premium sleeves seem to help prevent whatever is happening by epic proportions. if it doesnt say “premium” or “thicker gauge”, stay away.
anyways, as with everything else, we arent dealing with absolutes. if anyone w/ a science degree out there can chime in on what might be the actual cause, that would be great. just trying to warn those that are under the misconception that they are newton rings that this might not be what it appears. newton rings could certainly be in play. each card should be taken by its own merits and on a case by case basis. i can assure you though, that this can and certainly has happened with a few cards that came back from psa with the inner sleeve/card protector. if i get anymore, i will certainly post those pics before i crack them out for rescue. at this point, i have immediately crscked out any card that starts to exhibit this look. as more time progresses, more damage occurs.
hopefully this helps out anyone thats googling and goes down the “newton ring” tunnel. if theres anyone that knows exactly whats going on here or if theres an actual scientific term to use moving forward, that would be great to know too!
Comments
I think the issue you posted here with the penny sleeves may be specific to your climate and materials in the penny sleeve and card. this looks indeed like moisture inside the sleeve paired with whatever material the sleeve is made of. this is not the same issue in question when cards inside PSA slabs create the effect we have discussed before. none of the cards I currently have stored for months in the standard non premium sleeves exhibit anything like what you posted here. and I have a wide range of Topps refractors, Panini Prizms and other thicker "clear coated" cards of various years. none have this issue. only time ive experiences this has been cards in PSA slabs that press against the inside. I just got one single card back yesterday that exhibited this issue and by lightly pressing on the case was able to make the spots disappear.
myslabs.to/smzcards
yes, exactly as stated previously and again above, right?
but im not even going to start w you. i gave it ample time and even tried to pm you after you succumb to personal attacks and had the other thread locked.
so please, put your ignore back on and stay on your side of the room, please.
i get it. this doesnt pertain to you obviously or your region of the country. im happy for you. so there should be nothing for you to chime in about on this one. it doesnt effect you, so again move on. please.
ignore never came off, dont worry.
either way, I just think there are two different issues here and not one single one. is your man cave in a humid basement? if it is due to humidity, water molecules are cohesive and adhesive. these properties help make the two smooth surfaces stick together.
myslabs.to/smzcards
obviously ignore did come off. youre reading and replying, right?
but to answer your concern, i live on the water in coastal sc. but no, there is no basement. if you dug down 5ft, youd prolly hit mud. and not only is a basement impossible here, the entire first floor is nothing but garage space. the cave itself is on the 3rd floor (40 feet up) with its own ac and dehumidifying system.
my parents live in coastal SC on the water. maybe ill send a few cards down to their place to test. I still think the issue you posted has something to do with humidity, especially water is a polar molecule, it would keep the two surfaces stuck together if they were opposite polar charges. I also wonder if this specifically has to do with sea salt air. the surfaces of the cards look like they could have dried salt residue from the natural humidity.
what if you tried storing a few test cards in a box the same way you always have, along side some desiccant packs to rule out humidity entirely before looking at the next suspected item, the sleeves.
myslabs.to/smzcards
wait just one second. before we go any further. are you attempting to say that perhaps i wasnt just busting your chops and attempting to single you out previously. that, maybe, just maybe there actually is some sort of “chemical reaction” hypothesis that has an eerily same look. and maybe what i was previously speaking solely based off my own personal experience on this matter is that it certainly has nothing to do w “physics”? again, while i reiterate that newton rings, your explanation based off your personal experiences, are most certainly a viable explanation as well? and perhaps with this being a collector site, that any and all possibilities should be presented and might be considered beneficial in helping each other or future members that may stumble across this site looking for information about this issue albiet whether they are south carolinians or arizonans? am i getting that right?
ps: and if you are willing to stop dealing in absolutes, that there very well could be another explanation and keep it civil, id be more than happy to answer your questions now that you at least seem receptive to the idea. because you actually did bring up a good point i hadnt thought about above. team work makes the dream work. if not, no big deal either. happy collecting either way.
again, I think we are discussing two entirely different things here.....
true suspected newton rings (which is the only thing I was referencing in previous threads as being a physical reaction between a smooth card surface and the smooth PSA slab surface and also between the two surfaces of a brand new card saver. these rings are called rings because of the rainbow effect rings they produce when the surface touches. the dry surfaces produce the rainbow effect and can be made to disappear when you press on the spots. whereas a wet "humid" one would just create a spot which likely won't go away unless the card is removed, cleaned and put into a new sleeve.
your issue looks like you put the card in a wet penny sleeve. or how any smooth surface would look with wet plastic over it. I will maintain that newton rings produced inside the slabs appear to be due to the physical properties of the surfaces. your issue appears to be inclusive of other factors at play, namely humidity and or other possibly chemical reactions. but my money is simply on humidity mixed with perhaps a residue inside the penny sleeve from the manufacturing process.
myslabs.to/smzcards
duh. two different things that look awfully similar. glad you quit dealing in absolutes & can finally admit it.
ding, ding, ding. two admissions in one day? “a chemical reaction”. thats right. like i offered earlier that you took personally last time simply because it was a possible different explanation that differed from your absolute theory. you just took it personally. the funny part is just above you offered the exact same advice of “desiccant packs” to deal with the humidity issue. our original beef was of a similar issue in regards to psa flips wrinkling inside the psa holder and that is the EXACT solution for storing that i offered to the op in that thread. remember, you said it would never work? again this was based off of my previous experience AND actually living near the op. the op was down in florida. you offering that same advice here was priceless.
as for your “residue inside the penny sleeve” or the “wet penny sleeve” angle, just stop. ive been dealing with this and cards for a while. if i can properly keep up with, sub and store six figure mantles, i think i posses the mental and ocular capabilities of placing cards in a fresh, adequately dry & residue-free penny sleeve.
above and beyond that and getting back to your previous immature rant, maybe you were just wrong? there are tons of things i dont know. but when i do know something and 100% confident on the subject, i will offer my opinion. especially when i learned the hard way. i will certainly hear out someone elses opinion. maybe you should try that next time instead of spitting some immature vitriol where it certainly now looks like you were the “know it all” that maybe didnt really know it all. but by all means, send some cards down to mom and recreate it. maybe she has a basement? just make sure they are panini cards of the years mentioned above, not topps. make sure you use the penny sleeves that were pictured and boxed how i stated above. i bet you wont send a 2018 luka optic holo. as of now, id love nothing more for you to learn the hard way.
for the record, i tried several times previously via pm & above to burry the hatchet all while you wanna maintain your hard-headed approach and attempts to poke holes in my story from anywhere from basement living to wet/residue laced sleeves and everything in between. its quite pathetic. keep in mind op’s card was what kinda card? a panini card, right? right.
so again, as requested in the beginning, place me back on ignore and stay on your side of the room. you obviously lied when you said you never took me off because thats the thing about the “ignore feature”, it hides my posts from your screen. take care and happy collecting.
For your information, ignore just dims your responses, doesn’t hide them. They can be clicked to be viewed.
You’re long winded rants and raves about me are comical. You’re so keen on proving me wrong or getting me to show sorrow for possibly having insulted you I just don’t understand. This whole thread I’ve brought nothing up regarding the other thread, and I’ve ignored your pokes and tried to offer solutions or ideas. You are completely more interested in hearing me cave in about old business and I don’t understand your obsession.
There is no hatchet to bury. I’m over the previous thread. You apparently aren’t. And it alone seems to be your priority.
myslabs.to/smzcards
I think it definitely has to do with the environment because a lot of collections I buy here along the gulf coast with cards in penny sleeves look exactly like that, blurry. Everything here is constantly wet to some degree and cards stored in penny sleeves are no different. I think it’s just a simple as that.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
anyways.
Newman or Nueman rings will have these patterns
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
First, and I’m likely not breaking any new ground, but all plastics are petroleum based. It’s a byproduct of oil refinement. The earth’s atmosphere contains some water at all times and one of the properties of water is that it can go from gas to liquid easily with quick changes in temperature (think morning dew on grass after a night with no rain, that is quickly gone as the sun elevates).
I would think storage in a vacuum sealed container (purchased or home made) would stop the issue altogether, assuming they’re in ideal shape and zero humidity conditions when first stored and I would probably add some moisture sapping desicates in with them to absorb any residual moisture present at sealing time.
Now, secondly…
@blurryface
@dictoresno
You two should be nicer to each other. You’re both sharp guys who add a lot to these forums. You both are very confident people who post intelligently and passionately with an intent to share information or an awesome card 99.9% of the time.
Everybody has bad days and this is the written word; sometimes meaning and tone aren’t conveyed properly. We have ALL been there, I’m sure.
I am one who believes that man accomplishes more together. Gang up on me for a few days - a common enemy creates a bond among those fighting together.
Whatever it is, please figure it out - for me? I am a fan of each of you and don’t want to lose either because you couldn’t get along.
All the best,
Tim
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Tim I appreciate the kind words. I can get along with blurryface if he can get along with me . I got nothing against him, he just come off sharp and abrasive. I tried to offer intelligent ideas and flat out ignore attempts to engage regarding previous encounters. I would be happy to continue to focus on the issues at hand and figure out the solution all together, so long as the past is left where it should be left.
myslabs.to/smzcards
classic victim card. no, that is what i tried to do. instead you chose to swear up and down that it could only be newton rings and physics. so much so that you turned into to making immature, personal attacks and had the last thread locked down. dont try to come off as the good guy here. again, i have asked several times already, just stop it and stay on your side of the room. its a simple request. especially since youve initiated ignore mode, right?
eta: i waited an ample amount of time to post this thread, made zero mention of you nor @‘d you and within minutes youre the first one to respond. late at night. coincidence? i think not. the first freaking one w/in minutes. check the date stamps. its more than obvious who is trolling who here. let it go and move on
HELLO NEWMAN!
good to know im not the only one. even over in germany…
Relevant. Especially the latter comments:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1494004