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Guess the Grade Dahlonega Gold 1852-D revealed due to suck photos

SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 4, 2021 5:33PM in U.S. Coin Forum

gee Beaver; there's nothing wrong with the second picture

«1

Comments

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2021 3:11PM

    Rescinded even a stab at it. Obverse photo is useless for detail and surface evaluation

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2021 3:16PM

    Try again? I only have my cell phone.

    Lots of things are useless.

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,546 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe 35 if it straight grades. Hard to tell from the photos.

  • kazkaz Posts: 9,185 ✭✭✭✭✭

    range of 30 to 40 imo.

  • No HeadlightsNo Headlights Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    40-45

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2021 3:48PM

    I just checked on the HA archives and there's a wide variability of strike and lustre combinations to evaluate for this date and MM.. You will learn a lot more about grading this difficult issue from those comparisons than from any comments here. Between the two, you can get somewhere. Such a teeny tiny little bit of work, and yet so few bother. :s

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2021 3:47PM

    Jess, I've been there and done that just this morning. The coin is in there on that site and I am just trying to have fun.
    just some fun. Thank you. PS ONE GUY NAILED IT ALREADY

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 2:37AM

    Does anyone remember Piper Laurie, Paul Newman, Jackie Gleason, George C Scott and Jake Lamotta in the HUSTLER?

    Nominated for seven academy awards!

    Won one one One!

    For Black and White cinema photography
    Cinematography

  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭✭✭

    35

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seeing has I didn't film the hustler and I m not going to get the gold and white academy award.

    You should always go with your first instincts as to wat's up.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you ! Indeed they are.

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would have guessed 50.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Colonel Jessup nailed it right off , but had second thoughts, which I understand as my photography is lacking. He knows his early gold branch mint stuff 4 sure.

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Def an NGC AU grade. Strike is one thing, mint surfaces is another. I want to see 50-85% mint surfaces intact for the 55 grade all other additions and demerits aside. That is net graded 50 to these eyes (53 with + color,- for strike).

  • JonBrand83JonBrand83 Posts: 480 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2021 6:57PM

    I was thinking 55+ before seeing the reveal. Nice one!

    Jbknifeandcoin.com
    IG: jb_rarities

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2021 7:31PM

    @Crypto - How can you tell? The obverse image is multi-dimensionally useless.

    I originally posted that I wasn't wasting my time guessing on a no-grade, but didn't want to be leading people off a cliff, so I rescinded/rewrote my post and PM'ed the OP my reservation and my grade.

    While I have a reputation of being a partially-blind former world-class guesser below the 69+/70 line, I was grading it from the reverse like a Chain Cent. :# Really like the reverse. The HA archive image might show it as even better.

    I really can't be cruel enough about the OP's imaging skills :'( . Luckily he has better taste in coins. :)

    I wouldn't consider the famous Reiver provenance a particular virtue. He was a variety researcher. Paying up for quality in that sort of endeavor was a waste of money. Surface quality was often compromised.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 2:47AM

    Gee I see we all had a lot of fun with this one.

    The reverse image is just fine the way it is.

    I paid less than the original bidder in the Reiver auction of 15 years ago.

    Charlotte and Dahlonega mint stuff is tough to find nicer. The HA photo is useless compared to the coin received in hand

    Quite a lot of old times collections were constantly environmental damaged or cleaned along the way. This coin at 170 years old, not bad.

    Reverse photo is excellent,
    It's great. Obverse is not too bad although I couldn't find my pin hole camera.

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Next time leave it up for longer before giving it away.

    I was thinking 50-53.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At least I'm not the only person on this site that doesn't take good photos

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Old days - EF-45

    Current time - AU-50.

    In this case over graded, and over priced because, on this coin, the extra 5 points matter.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 4:39AM

    @ColonelJessup said:
    @Crypto - How can you tell? The obverse image is multi-dimensionally useless.

    I originally posted that I wasn't wasting my time guessing on a no-grade, but didn't want to be leading people off a cliff, so I rescinded/rewrote my post and PM'ed the OP my reservation and my grade.

    While I have a reputation of being a partially-blind former world-class guesser below the 69+/70 line, I was grading it from the reverse like a Chain Cent. :# Really like the reverse. The HA archive image might show it as even better.

    I really can't be cruel enough about the OP's imaging skills :'( . Luckily he has better taste in coins. :)

    I wouldn't consider the famous Reiver provenance a particular virtue. He was a variety researcher. Paying up for quality in that sort of endeavor was a waste of money. Surface quality was often compromised.

    I can’t really tell but as my mom used to say “always certain, occasionally wrong”.

    My tactic for photos is interpretive; meaning I look for the classic protected areas such as the eye socket, around liberty and the inside of the shield. After I develop a baseline how ever bad the photo quality is I then gauge the rest of the fields off of those. The back crook of her neck being lighter speaks to me that there is friction on most of the exposed surfaces and the fact it is lighter and there is an absence of layers of age speaks to a processing at some time not that recent that stripped/impaired much of the rest of the mint surfaces. It has since mellowed nicely.

    With all that the real question is how much is it worth and I suspect PCGS would think it is worth AU50 money with its various pluses and minuses. AU50 is almost always a net grade these days with the TPGs

    (*Not trying to teach the Col, just explaining my self to those who also wondered against his rhetorical question)

    @Billjones is spot on, the spreed between grades on that coin that has xf45 downside means no matter how nice that it actually is, it is in a tomb and retail $$$ offers only downside to a collector.

  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,822 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 6:35AM

    @BillJones said:
    Old days - EF-45

    Current time - AU-50.

    In this case over graded, and over priced because, on this coin, the extra 5 points matter.

    I paid $1800 for the coin. Phhhhhhhttttttttttt when they want em' you sell them, when they don't you buy them.
    that's how you do coins. OK? now, repeat after me blah, blah, blah,bablah bablah blah.....

    PS Collect and study the Stoics Seneca, Marcus Aurelius etc. focus on the study part.

    That kinda dealer is the guy who says 'it grades $3500. okay kid"

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 6:17AM

    If you're trying to teach the Colonel and he learns something. or if you're running threw a theory that illuminates for others, I'm all for it. This is how we all learn to grade; bouncing ideas against each other. And being "right" or "wrong" is not a number but a process.
    If you can articulate to yourself the various attributes of a coin and balance the pluses and minuses, that's grading. Hold the dialogue with the Forum, myself, the HA archive images. and what's in your head already.

    Any "C" or "D" mint gold is a trial for most graders.
    The strike pressures, the planchet preparation, these and couple of other factors make the Southern emissions very unlike Philadelphia issues that are the paradigms for much grading.

    Sadly, the obverse image is at best counter-productive.

    The head and neck of the eagle have the detail of VF, but it is not wear. The lack of detail there leads to a conclusion that is contradicted by the rest of the detail. The wingtips, the feather detail in general, the overall height of the device above the field, the claws; these attributes far exceed what should be expected for VF. "P" mints are much more consistent, overall more well-made.

    I'm dead serious about the Heritage archives. I will tell you again and again to use them. They're the best resource an internet-trained photo-image grader can have. Five effin minutes on a page of 52-D $5 from VF- to 58 and you'll be
    less confused. At least you'll see enough to ask "what about.....". You'll have to decide whether you will risk exposing your ignorance in public or paying a higher tuition for it in private. I look at a photo here and my first two thoughts are "If I'm wrong, my exalted self will now be exposed as a clueless arrogant jerk". and "If I'm wrong, will I lead someone over a cliff?".
    Coin in-hand is my absolute minimum requirement for an informed decision. Photos? Not how I got my 100,000 hours. And here we are in 2021 with photos the only game in town.

    If you're not curious about coins, don't ask. Or, you can think like Thomas Edison. Every wrong answer gets you a little closer to the right one. I can't teach you grade like I can. But I can lead you into thinking MORE about what you're looking at.

    If you're on this thread and don't check the Archives, you've already screwed yourself. :#
    I have numerous times given my phone number via PM to someone here with a grading issue. I've spent quite a few hours in dialogue with someone looking at the same images I am.

    Several hours of my very precious time.
    Several hours this whole effin year.
    A tragic burden, to be sure. :'(:#

    I was lucky. I have "the knack". Maybe I hit mastery of "P" mint gold at 8,000 hours, and competence in Southern gold at 20,000. Let's get to work :)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 6:43AM

    Edison???
    I am from Edison! I have volumes on the man, you assume too damn much! Wat a prig! I have become well acquainted with the wizard of Menlo Park and West Orange. Where I took that photo 30 years ago.

    Jessup, How in god's name did my posting for opinions on a coin lead you to question everything I do?

    Sadly Jessup you never noticed I edited the post THREE TIMES WITH THREE DIFFERENT TAKES ON THE OBVERSE.
    I used a cell phone. I wanted to have fun. I HATE PRIGS ! Priggish behavior and long distance "shots" .

    Guys like you don't know when to stop; You surmise, you think too much, you assume, you clandestinely rail a person, it's what drives people out of this ever changing world of loose boundaries in rare coins. "Hold the dialog" ?? How many keyboards you go through in a week?

    You're enough to make a man take up collecting "designer 1/10 ounce gold coins"

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 8:08AM

    Hey, you posted a no-grade in a holder.
    The obverse is, as I expected, semi-FUBAR.
    My comments on your imagery were teasing,
    The better your photos, the worse the coin looked. Is that praise or criticism?
    The coin still affords opportunities for learning. I thought it was an excellent example of "addition and subtraction"
    I see good instincts at work.
    I do resent being mis-graded as a "prig". I'm a "hard-ass".

    Condescending vocabulary lesson. "Clandestine" means hidden from observation. I could form the impression you think I blind-sided you, "railed" you in what you experienced as a covert(?) attack(?). Not priggish; precise.

    Have you checked out that page from the HA archives yet?

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    Old days - EF-45

    Current time - AU-50.

    In this case over graded, and over priced because, on this coin, the extra 5 points matter.

    Bill,
    I priggishly, albeit rhetorically, disagree about a "current time" grade.
    I might agree if we were talking in terms of it trading at a "net 50'ish" level.
    You might also agree it would no-grade at our host if submitted today.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ColonelJessup said:

    @BillJones said:
    Old days - EF-45

    Current time - AU-50.

    In this case over graded, and over priced because, on this coin, the extra 5 points matter.

    Bill,
    I priggishly, albeit rhetorically, disagree about a "current time" grade.
    I might agree if we were talking in terms of it trading at a "net 50'ish" level.
    You might also agree it would no-grade at our host if submitted today.

    Colonel when you get up friday morning "break the pills in half"

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 8:47AM

    I can only paraphrase and remotely refer to a national figure who recently whined "Why don't people like me?" o:)

    @Soldi - Do you own this coin? is that connected with the offense you've taken? Has pride of ownership or expectations of market worth been lessened?

    @ColonelJessup - codependency is masochism - Run, Rick. Run :s

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 8:44AM

    @ColonelJessup said:
    I can only paraphrase and remotely refer to a national figure who recently whined "Why don't people like me?" o:)

    truth is a bitter elixir that rarely sits well in the stomach. There are mass-graves with messengers in them scattered throughout this planet

    I don't think it no grades, I say worst case is a 45 which would almost certainly sticker... Green.

    What are these threads for but an opportunity to show grading process by better graders than us and talk about the multiple elements to buying coins right?

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 9:05AM

    @Crypto said:

    @ColonelJessup said:
    I can only paraphrase and remotely refer to a national figure who recently whined "Why don't people like me?" o:)

    truth is a bitter elixir that rarely sits well in the stomach. There are mass-graves with messengers in them scattered throughout this planet

    I don't think it no grades, I say worst case is a 45 which would almost certainly sticker... Green.

    What are these threads for but an opportunity to show grading process by better graders than us and talk about the multiple elements to buying coins right?

    I think the reverse by itself might sticker 53. I implore you to check some images of lower-graded coins of the date in CAC and recalibrate your frost texture paradigm as it relates to the obverse. Otherwise, I'll likely find myself under compulsion to find a polysyllabic pejorative to describe your refusal to accept my definition of, now that I come to think of it, essentially everything. You will be subjected to clandestine public castigation until you either repent or break for lunch.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ColonelJessup said:

    @Crypto said:

    @ColonelJessup said:
    I can only paraphrase and remotely refer to a national figure who recently whined "Why don't people like me?" o:)

    truth is a bitter elixir that rarely sits well in the stomach. There are mass-graves with messengers in them scattered throughout this planet

    I don't think it no grades, I say worst case is a 45 which would almost certainly sticker... Green.

    What are these threads for but an opportunity to show grading process by better graders than us and talk about the multiple elements to buying coins right?

    I think the reverse by itself might sticker 53. I implore you to check some images of lower-graded coins of the date in CAC and recalibrate your frost texture paradigm as it relates to the obverse. Otherwise, I'll likely find myself under compulsion to find a polysyllabic pejorative to describe your refusal to accept my definition of, now that I come to think of it, essentially everything. You will be subjected to clandestine public castigation until you either repent or break for lunch.

    you might be right, the pop of mint surface is very hard to gauge from photos good or bad. If the luster is there then the sky is the limit in terms of desirability and grade. My guess is it is muted and the AU53 technical grade will be netted down. It is clear that there is very little wear going off the eagles wings and rims which is where I would suspect NGC ascertained the 55 grade from (58 wear with only neg being field friction then giving it a bump for bulk submission and southern strike charm, with the last parts being tongue in cheek). That said highpoint friction and mint surface are two different things and once you get sub-50% remaining mint surface, the line between weak strike and rub starts to be gradually become irrelevant from the trends I have observed.

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 9:23AM

    @Crypto

    @Soldi said:
    Guys like you don't know when to stop; You surmise, you think too much, you assume, you clandestinely rail a person, it's what drives people out of this ever changing world of loose boundaries in rare coins.

    He got us...... :'(

    Actually, I'm wondering what politician said "I'd rather have a slice of Margherita pizza than be President"

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For what it is worth I would gold bean the Smoking sign with the signature

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 10:29AM

    The whole thing started out innocently enough. Guess the GradeThen ColonelJessup
    Redacted , I saw something that wasn't there.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,249 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ColonelJessup said:
    If you're trying to teach the Colonel and he learns something. or if you're running threw a theory that illuminates for others, I'm all for it. This is how we all learn to grade; bouncing ideas against each other. And being "right" or "wrong" is not a number but a process.
    If you can articulate to yourself the various attributes of a coin and balance the pluses and minuses, that's grading. Hold the dialogue with the Forum, myself, the HA archive images. and what's in your head already.

    Any "C" or "D" mint gold is a trial for most graders.
    The strike pressures, the planchet preparation, these and couple of other factors make the Southern emissions very unlike Philadelphia issues that are the paradigms for much grading.

    Sadly, the obverse image is at best counter-productive.

    The head and neck of the eagle have the detail of VF, but it is not wear. The lack of detail there leads to a conclusion that is contradicted by the rest of the detail. The wingtips, the feather detail in general, the overall height of the device above the field, the claws; these attributes far exceed what should be expected for VF. "P" mints are much more consistent, overall more well-made.

    I'm dead serious about the Heritage archives. I will tell you again and again to use them. They're the best resource an internet-trained photo-image grader can have. Five effin minutes on a page of 52-D $5 from VF- to 58 and you'll be
    less confused. At least you'll see enough to ask "what about.....". You'll have to decide whether you will risk exposing your ignorance in public or paying a higher tuition for it in private. I look at a photo here and my first two thoughts are "If I'm wrong, my exalted self will now be exposed as a clueless arrogant jerk". and "If I'm wrong, will I lead someone over a cliff?".
    Coin in-hand is my absolute minimum requirement for an informed decision. Photos? Not how I got my 100,000 hours. And here we are in 2021 with photos the only game in town.

    If you're not curious about coins, don't ask. Or, you can think like Thomas Edison. Every wrong answer gets you a little closer to the right one. I can't teach you grade like I can. But I can lead you into thinking MORE about what you're looking at.

    If you're on this thread and don't check the Archives, you've already screwed yourself. :#
    I have numerous times given my phone number via PM to someone here with a grading issue. I've spent quite a few hours in dialogue with someone looking at the same images I am.

    Several hours of my very precious time.
    Several hours this whole effin year.
    A tragic burden, to be sure. :'(:#

    I was lucky. I have "the knack". Maybe I hit mastery of "P" mint gold at 8,000 hours, and competence in Southern gold at 20,000. Let's get to work :)

    I like southern gold just for this reason. It's just dang interesting! :D

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 10:28AM

    @Soldi said:
    The whole thing started out innocently enough. Guess the GradeThen ColonelJessup gets up this morning and
    goes out to get the newspaper on the front lawn, suddenly he slips on his pre cast front porch and bumps his head.
    Seeing him sprawled out on the porch and the door ajar his mother makes her move, seeing the mailman, races down the driveway and barks frantically for help. To no avail and all day I have to read his nonsense and wonder why nobody really collects this stuff any longer. All is not lost though, Jessup's mom sees a pork chop bone on the parkway and buries it in the backyard.

    You look in the mirror and see a brilliant wordsmith who is scoring with a "yo mama".
    As per John Wayne, you'd better be smiling when you call me that. :#

    But I'm seeing someone who just doubled-down on characterizing my Mom twice in a degrading way as a b!tch., :s:s
    If you haven't apologized on this thread for this specific post within 30 minutes, I'll flag you. >:)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 10:38AM

    I didn't want to say Son of a b___
    So. I made the story. I took it down, but you're outta line just the same.
    Now, u take it down PRIG

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Geeze! :s

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 10:54AM

    @Soldi said:
    I didn't want to say Son of a b___
    So. I made the story. I took it down, but you're outta line just the same.
    Now, u take it down PRI

    this song isn't about you,

    It is a decent coin and it is what it is and the variables of what you paid and what it is worth to you no one commented on. I was the one saying the coin was over graded as a 55 and the plastic was skewed with it's true value in different & more market accepted standards (good coin, bad plastic). The Col was calling me a know-it-all who couldn't possibly be as certain as I purported to be simply based off your substandard/poor photos. He conceded it had a net neg fabric but was arguing this date is known to be very poorly made and the provenance not always a selling point to old timers who remember the collection but it might very well be nicer than my assumptions.

    while my codex for deciphering the Col may be a slightly more update version, I assure youre barking up the wrong tree.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 11:00AM

    Okay!
    It's over.
    I can be wrong!
    I want to play guess the Grade and he denigrated the coin right off the bat !
    He guessed the grade correctly and then proceeded to tear up the coin, it's provenance, as well as , the whole point . His behavior is ridiculous.

    He's so special and he just can't be wrong about it, so much so, that he took down his CORRECT GRADE GUESS. He's perfect. He's not an SOB sorry.

    I think

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Soldi said:
    Okay!
    It's over.
    I can be wrong!
    I want to play guess the Grade and he denigrated the coin right off the bat !
    He guessed the grade correctly and then proceeded to tear up the coin, it's provenance, as well as , the whole point . His behavior is ridiculous.

    He's so special and he just can't be wrong about it, so much so, that he took down his CORRECT GRADE GUESS. He's perfect. He's not an SOB sorry.

    I think

    I think you might learn to appreciate (enjoy, even?) the Colonel's loquacious stylings if you train yourself to not take them personally. I didn't get here in time to read his original comments, but I'm pretty sure they weren't intended as a reflection on you as a person. BTW, if you don't want potentially negative comments about one of your coins, it might be a good idea to not post a GTG thread here. When I bought some questionable coins toward the beginning of my collecting journey and had them identified as such by members here, I used it as a learning experience. Note that I'm not calling your coin questionable out of hand. FWIW.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for the constructive comments

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Soldi said:

    @BillJones said:
    Old days - EF-45

    Current time - AU-50.

    In this case over graded, and over priced because, on this coin, the extra 5 points matter.

    I paid $1800 for the coin. Phhhhhhhttttttttttt when they want em' you sell them, when they don't you buy them.
    that's how you do coins. OK? now, repeat after me blah, blah, blah,bablah bablah blah.....

    PS Collect and study the Stoics Seneca, Marcus Aurelius etc. focus on the study part.

    That kinda dealer is the guy who says 'it grades $3500. okay kid"

    Well, good for you, but I had no idea what you paid. I was grading it, not pricing it.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,093 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 2:08PM

    @ColonelJessup said:

    @BillJones said:
    Old days - EF-45

    Current time - AU-50.

    In this case over graded, and over priced because, on this coin, the extra 5 points matter.

    Bill,
    I priggishly, albeit rhetorically, disagree about a "current time" grade.
    I might agree if we were talking in terms of it trading at a "net 50'ish" level.
    You might also agree it would no-grade at our host if submitted today.

    Grading has become a moving target and also a concept that is overly influenced by stickers. I've watched grading get loser and loser over the years. It used to go in cycles and now the trend seems to be downward. That's one of the big reasons who I am mostly out of the U.S. coin market. I love what I have, but I can't add to it.

    Coins for Charlotte, Carson City and Dahlonega often get breaks. I don't agree with that, but it's a fact.

    I tend to grade these coins more by surfaces than sharpness when it comes to Mint State versus AU grades. That's not a popular concept because I see too many pieces with lots of rub in the fields that now get the Mint State grade, especially for coins that really hard to find in true Mint State.

    I bought this coin, which is in an MS-61 holder, which it isn't

    As opposed this coin which is in an MS-63 holder, which it isn't.

    The motivation was that coin #1 cost one-third the amount of coin #2, which had a sticker, which drove the price even higher.

    Unless you have infinite funds and infinite patience, you can't collect coins like this, in true Mint State because they are very, very scarce.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 2:11PM

    I appreciate your input. I must say when I thought grading got loose, I believe it was JA who when at NGC decided to "market grade" coins. To me this was a bad idea and I felt the "market" should decide what value should be put on a coin and not the numerical grade. I believe this displayed above to be a prime example of "market grading" they are both nice coins, but do not meet the technical grade for that which has been assigned.

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 2:14PM

    @BillJones said:
    I tend to grade these coins more by surfaces than sharpness when it comes to Mint State versus AU grades. That's not a popular concept because I see too many pieces with lots of rub in the fields that now get the Mint State grade, especially for coins that really hard to find in true Mint State.

    Agree++

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • markelman1125markelman1125 Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2021 2:42PM

    I love that coin. If I where you I would be proud to have the coin in the collection.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you.

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