What are some recommendations for soaking brass?

coinsarefun

Some sort of smutz on the reverse. Obverse looks okay........I thought acetone but if this has a light gold gilt it might remove it?
Or a long soak in mineral oil? Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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These are shots head on.


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These are slightly tilted to show the pl surfaces.
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Up close and personal
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jmski52

Acetone could affect the metal surface if the residues are at all reactive. It looks like the metal has already reacted, though.

I would suggest toluene, xylene, or mineral spirits. Use good ventilation, gloves and keep away from any ignition sources. Final rinse with isopropyl or ethyl alcohol, then distilled water. Pat dry.

HalfDimeDude

I agree not knowing the exact medal mixture of the token and the environmental damage already done I leave it alone,but if the specimen isnt that valuable I say try the above post method. I wouldn't let it sit for any amount of time just dip and see.
Ive have seen old copper turn color in an acetone left to sit . I never have had it happen,but a friends coin did.

Sonorandesertrat

There is a known photochemical reaction between acetone and copper ions, so room light might be enough to cause this color change.

coinsarefun

Thanks for the input so far. I was told this is heavy oxidation. Do you see it this way?
I see as some crud was put/fell/dump on it. Am I wrong?

HalfDimeDude

@Sonorandesertrat said:
There is a known photochemical reaction between acetone and copper ions, so room light might be enough to cause this color change.

And it also could be caused of some unknown substances on the coin that caused the reaction with the acetone to make the color change. One never knows where the money been....what was the % of bills found in the 1980's that had cocaine traces on the notes?
I've also have seen many old coppers with varnish or other substances trying to keep the coin from tarnishing. I personally do not treat coins of value unless I am 100% sure that no damage will occur.

thefinn

Extra Virgin Olive Oil and/or mineral oil.

MsMorrisine

The green stuff is absolutely heavy oxidation.

ifthevamzarockin

Some brass car wash, transit or game tokens may be good to practice with.

JRocco

Use heavy mineral oil Steph not olive oil. Put it in a jar with about 1/2 inch of mineral oil and turn it once a month for a few months. Then you can roll an oil soaked Q-Tip over it (you already know not to rub it) to see if it needs more time. Be patient it will come off but may take some time. I have cleaned some old medals over the course of a year but they usually come out nice.

291fifth

If the dark area appears to be raised it may be gunk. If the dark area is perfectly level with the surface of the token then it is probably a chemical reaction that has directly affected the metal. The green stuff appears to be corrosion. If it is a valuable token it would probably be best to just leave it as it is.

Jzyskowski1

Brasso if you don’t care about the value (so to speak) should polish right up unless there’s damage to the surface then I’m not sure what will happen. I collect brass bronze etc. I leave them alone unless I want to have a nice shiny token. It’s personal but using different tokens as trial pieces they don’t have consistency with in the metallurgy 🧐

PerryHall

@Jzyskowski1 said:
Brasso if you don’t care about the value (so to speak) should polish right up unless there’s damage to the surface then I’m not sure what will happen. I collect brass bronze etc. I leave them alone unless I want to have a nice shiny token. It’s personal but using different tokens as trial pieces they don’t have consistency with in the metallurgy 🧐

This is terrible advice. Brasso is an abrasive and will ruin any coin or token that it's used on.

relicsncoins

In the Navy we used to soak brass fire nozzles in what was known as bug juice. It was basically the military version of Kool-Aide. I think it has absorbic acid in it. They would go in all dull and dingy and come out shiny and new. Not sure I would recommend it for a token though.

Jzyskowski1

I mentioned it was for shining up the token. Not conservating a valuable coin. Thought I made that clear. Sorry

NumisOxide

Looks like the gilt layer has been compromised and the base layer has corroded/oxidized.

ColonelJessup

I know nothing about this piece.
Please note the value of free advice.

I don't know why "gilt" would be considered. This is an advertisement for a discount on something that was already over-priced at a buck.
It's not classic numismatic bronze, it's modern. It'll likely hold up better than some older pieces to some processes. I'm surprised to see such brightness surviving from something I'll guess is from the 30's or 40's and surviving by accident.
You've got what looks like a combination of encrustation and corrosion. Too much on, and too much in.

You could send it to me and I could do a couple of thing with various emulsifiers and an ultrasonic. I'm pretty confident I could retain the brightness, though @Sonorandesertrat might know more.
Much better techs could not do much more. You can only destroy much of its remaining virtue as writ in great remaining color. My advice

Put a clean cup of water in your microwave and boil.
Drop in the token and let it sit for 5 minutes.
Rinse with alcohol and let it dry naturally.
Re-rinse, re-dry,
Re-flip and enjoy.

The corrosion is there to stay. Whatever goop that's corroded the bronze underneath is there to stay, and if any of it came off, it might come off unevenly leaving in a blotchy or mottled group of shadings, at the lowest level of which you'd find a dull granular surface. I think we're way to late to do anything to much improve it, and it's apparently been stable for long enough that there's little cause to believe it will further decrepitate.

derryb

JBK

You suggested it is gilt but are you sure it's not just lacquered?

I've seen old tokens that were issued that way to retain brightness.

PerryHall

@JBK said:
You suggested it is hilt but are you sure it's not just lacquered?

I've seen old tokens that were issued that way to retain brightness.

It doesn't make sense to go through the trouble and expense to gilt a mass produced token intended for use in commerce. I tend to agree that it may have been lacquered perhaps by a collector when this practice was in vogue.

keets

you can try any of the suggestions mentioned but my experience tells me that corrosion like this on brass is there to stay, nothing will alleviate the damage.

coinsarefun

Thanks to everyone for your input. A few things……. This is from the 1920’s during prohibition.
You bought this product and along with some yeast you made beer. I’m fairly certain it’s gilt simply because I’ve seen enough. It doesn’t appear to be lacquered as I have several of that type too.
However it could have been lacquered at one point and dipped in acetone and that messed up the surfaces.
But, since it’s very think and built up it must be some type of glue, lacquer or some type of crap the owner put on it.
I’m really at a loss as to what to do with it so still open to suggestions but it might be either a long soak in mineral oil might be the only alternative that won’t further ruin the surfaces.
It not a super expensive item so I’m not that concerned but thought to get some opinions.
If this was not messed with a graded a 64 pl it would bring +-$200 as most are rubbed raw, destroyed
or just wore down from use.
Gold gilt was used at late as the 70’s maybe 80’s. The latest one I’ve ever seen and still have is this one.
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Broadstruck

Soak in mineral oil for a few months checking it monthly.

Broadstruck

Nothing will remove the dark area on the reverse, but mineral oil will lift the green.

JBK

The way the scratches have turned dark as well as that large tarnished area suggest to me lacquer that has been compromised.

Not sure how it looks in hand.

Neat story on the product, though.

ricko

@coinsarefun .... Steph, I would start with acetone, it will remove organics without harm to metals. That being said, the surface below the organics may not be nice, so removal may not improve the appearance. I cannot determine if it is gilt from the pictures, though the surface does look different than base metal. Cheers, RickO

CaptHenway

I would leave it as it is and accept it as it is. Many numismatic items, like all people, are less than perfect. Accept this as a fact of life.

Hydrant

Take them out behind the barracks and dump a bucket of water on them. It works but the downside is the brig.

ColonelJessup

Sometimes the smartest people overlook the most obvious solution in choosing a solvent. Leave it overnight in a glass of beer.

ColonelJessup

@Hydrant said:
Take them out behind the barracks and dump a bucket of water on them. It works but the downside is the brig.

I thought you were talking about retaliating against your grandkids for waterboarding you in the kiddie pool!

That Gitmo story about me was supposed to have my name redacted. You've likely noticed I went thru plastic surgery during my second visit with Witness Protection. You want to talk about a inter-agency clusterf--k? DHS, US Marshal Service, the NJ Division of Motor Vehicles and the ANA convention photo-ID databases all think I look like Gumby's punched-out little brother. None of these will stop me from hitchhiking to Rosemont.

Jzyskowski1

Thanks for your service colonel 😊

Hydrant

@ColonelJessup said:

@Hydrant said:

>

Federal Witness Protection are working through a few jurisdictional conflicts that will not stop me from hitchhiking to Rosemont.

Rosemont sucks. Russian infiltrators. Especially the Blonde barberettes on River Road. Always looking for info. The Mafia controls everything north of Belmont...... Their restaurants are awesome. Keep your head down.......MAMA MIA!

streeter

Brasso, ykes!!🙄🙄

I'd leave it as it is. If you want to make it shiney then there are lotsa chemicals that will do that but then you lose the good side.

ColonelJessup

@Hydrant _ I may have rewritten some of what you laughed at.

Illuminatti minions have secured the perimeter of the Motel 6 and renamed it the Section 8. Military parlance, not a rent subsidy program. They raised rates 30%, Domino's won't deliver there anymore.

Outside the convention site, the line around the block for gold Kennedy's continues to build, and minions are already stopping Good Samaritans from handing out water bottles due to a recent change in local ordinances. Since the ANA elections are over and done with, and nobody's yet promulgating the melting of all the Stone Mountain Lincoln commems, Rosemont politicians find themselves grasping for solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.

@Jzyskowski1 said:
Thanks for your service colonel 😊

As one of my less-pleased clients once riposted unpleasantly to my attorney during a deposition "Said the bull to the heifer, 'it was my pleasure to be of service'". Cracked the judge up My insurance company settled soon afterwards.

Hopefully, you intended the use of the much-needed "dripping with sarcasm" emoji. In real life, my dad served. My rank here is from Clown Camp.

Hydrant

Colonel,......Did you notice that edited out the Motel number part.? I value my life and those of my loved ones.

Steven59

It's gone from bringing back to life (corrosion?) . Anything you do is pretty much an experiment - good luck! I just happen to have some experimental "juice" for that exact cause - PM me and I'll send you a small sample with instructions. It works great on coppers, never tried on brass yet

WaterSport

CaptHenway

The basic question with copper and brass cleaners is "How much damage will it cause?"

coinsarefun

@CaptHenway said:
The basic question with copper and brass cleaners is "How much damage will it cause?"

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I agree!! I asked because I did have several brass tokens that were gold gilt and came back from the grading company as "lacquered". I dipped quickly and rinsed with mixed results, I was extremely lucky the very expensive ones came out fine and the inexpensive from the 1920's looks damaged. I didn't submit anything yet but I will and can post later down the road.
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I've never used acetone on anything but silver and always had no problem whatsoever. I do have one silver medal that came out semi damaged after the soak but I think the medal had glue on it and was messed with before I got it. When I dipped it, you can see all the damage below.

JRocco

Hey Steph,
I started a thread on these boards 14 years ago....wow time flies.... about soaking an older piece in mineral oil and the results. I found the old thread but the pic of the piece was deleted for some reason so I will show that here and then post the link to the thread showing some of the results from a long mineral oil soak. The first pic in the thread shows results after a year but pics deeper into the thread show effects of a longer soak.
Hope it helps.
This is how it looked to start. That crud was rock hard embedded into the metal.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/587604/graphic-example-of-what-soaking-a-coin-in-oil-can-do-updated-pics/p1

coinsarefun

@JRocco said:

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Hi!
Thanks for posting that one. I’m bidding on a British model now, coin insadently……..lol
It may need the exact same thing if I win it.

Hydrant

But......those hair cutter babes are HOT!!! > @ColonelJessup said:

I thought you were talking about retaliating against your grandkids for waterboarding you in the kiddie pool!

No. It's much worse than that. The grandkids and I have just finished up shooting Borax and bleach into squirrel holes. Air charged fire unit. I made the BIG MISTAKE. I put 3 year old Jenny in charge.........she mistook me for a squirrel hole. ......Now I'm a bleached blonde with peeling skin and bloodshot eyes!

ColonelJessup

You may be able to get off the hook with Jenny's mom by praising the the courageous child for saving you from the Zombie incursion approaching Rosemont. You just got a little splattered in the rescue cross-fire, right? Jenny looks like a bright sweet child who is going to be the hero of the story right after Grandpa takes all the grandkids for ice cream and maybe some pony rides.

Next summer, all the kids can do it all over again. You can have T-shirts made for them. A squirrel with your face in the middle of a target. They'll be singing about you and Jenny around family campfires for generations.

Ice cream and pony rides. You just might pull it off!

To get back on task, I don't see the borax and bleach solution as being workable for brass