1909 s VDB

HalfDimeDude

I know one shouldn't post images in a 2x2 but this specimen isn't mine, but a pick for a friend of mine.
Options please as to grade ....etc. thanks in advance.

PerryHall

I can't comment on your coin without some close up pics especially of the date/mintmark area and the VDB area on the reverse.

MsMorrisine

MsMorrisine

the important part of the picture is too small.

Off_Cent_er

I think it is in the VF range but hard to tell. Here is my VF30 by NGC for comparison.

BuffaloIronTail

Kinda far away, but close enough to venture a guess.

Looks good to me.

Pete

HalfDimeDude

I have no concerns over it being the real McCoy....been collection over 50 years! So yeah not my 1st rodeo....just more so grade....and price.
90% of my collection was purchased raw....and haven't been fooledvyet. Thanks for your input.

HalfDimeDude

@MsMorrisine said:
the important part of the picture is too small.

Yes I do.... understand my concern isnt if its real I have no worries on that part. More or less just thoughts on grade ,color ....
However thank you for the enlarged images.
I am also a fan of your Avatar Bill Mum and the Twightlight zone!

BuffaloIronTail

OK...........looks VF-35 to me.

Too much forehead wear for an XF, IMHOP.

Pete

jesbroken

Looks ok to me with a VF30 obverse and VF20 reverse(wheat stalk lines weak). Just an opinion.
Jim

ifthevamzarockin

Looks like a #2 in VF-25 and a good chance of an old cleaning. ( not harsh )

Nice coin for the grade.

MarkKelley

When I was a kid this coin would have graded no better than an F 12. I still have a hard time going VF with it..

Martin

I’m going with a 20 mine that I bough 45 years ago as a fine is in a 25 holder it has full wheat stalks

Martin

PerryHall

VF20 or 25 depending on how it looks in hand. It's unusual that a famous key date cent would last that long in circulation to get worn down to a VF grade. It's an attractive coin for the grade and it would be perfect for filling that last hole in your coin album.

Jimnight

.

HalfDimeDude

@PerryHall said:
VF20 or 25 depending on how it looks in hand. It's unusual that a famous key date cent would last that long in circulation to get worn down to a VF grade. It's an attractive coin for the grade and it would be perfect for filling that last hole in your coin album.

This specimen came from a collector that a dealer friend purchased many albums that the collector had over the years. The dealer told me he still has albums to process and inventory .
I like the coin myself its a very light brown woodie .. the wear looks even and in hand I see no signs of any cleaning.
Nor would I believe that it would be as the collector the dealer purchased from was just a album filler who had over 50 albums from complete to half full.Plus my friend also is purchasing the rest of the collection. And again the old man is not the type to be cleaning coins he the hoarding type. And from what i've seen he most probably never sold or traded any of this hoard.
The only issue and it wouldnt be one with me ...is if you wanted your set to match color .
As this is a lighter tone.
Lincoln series isn't a series that I collect.....however over the years Ive have examined many keys in this series as well others....this coin is spot on a 1909 s VDB.
Thanks to all whom have replied.

HalfDimeDude

@MarkKelley said:
When I was a kid this coin would have graded no better than an F 12. I still have a hard time going VF with it..

You sound like me....as if you were a YN and coin club member in the 60's you learned how to grade,and trade. My collection is still 90% raw self slabed,or in albums etc.
I find those whom only buy slabbed or stickered coins are missing one of the key parts of this hobby.
I always lecture that the hobby is more than putting round medal disc in a hole.
I also appreciate the fact as a child my academics wasn't the best! However improved as I got deeper into the hobby.
Making me start to appreciate reading, research,history,and geography.....so in fact it gave me the drive to exceed in school. I was always told "you're not dumb" your IQ is 143!
I guess just lazy or just needed a kick start .
I love seeing parents and grandparents sharing this hobby with their children.
It gives me hope for many reasons....but most of all I just wish for the connect for another YN to
Succeed,and truly have a lifetime of achieving, learning.and enjoyment.

ricko

I would guestimate a 25.... based on the enlarged images.... Cheers, RickO

HalfDimeDude

@PerryHall are you a Maryland resident? If so we do know one another.lol

PerryHall

@HalfDimeDude said:
@PerryHall are you a Maryland resident? If so we do know one another.lol

I used to live in Perry Hall, Maryland.

HalfDimeDude

@PerryHall said:

@HalfDimeDude said:
@PerryHall are you a Maryland resident? If so we do know one another.lol

I used to live in Perry Hall, Maryland.

You had a coin shop and lost your lease correct?

PerryHall

@HalfDimeDude said:

@PerryHall said:

@HalfDimeDude said:
@PerryHall are you a Maryland resident? If so we do know one another.lol

I used to live in Perry Hall, Maryland.

You had a coin shop and lost your lease correct?

No. Not me. That was Stuart Jones. His coin shop was Perry Hall Rare Coins and Currency. Is his coin shop now closed?

7Jaguars

I like this coin as well and occasionally a coin with honest wear is preferable. I also found one in the wild and posted this story some while ago. I am not a big Lincoln guy but had always wanted the S VDB and found mine in the raw at a UK auction about 5 years ago. Even from the photos it was good and paid about 50% retail & ended up with a 64RB graded by our hosts - this a coin unmessed with and original surfaces & very attractive.

HalfDimeDude

@PerryHall said:

@HalfDimeDude said:

@PerryHall said:

@HalfDimeDude said:
@PerryHall are you a Maryland resident? If so we do know one another.lol

I used to live in Perry Hall, Maryland.

You had a coin shop and lost your lease correct?

No. Not me. That was Stuart Jones. His coin shop was Perry Hall Rare Coins and Currency. Is his coin shop now closed?

Ok that's who I believed you to be....unfortunately yes in fact the lot is flat now! That strip center gone.

HalfDimeDude

@PerryHall
I did work shows securty and the door off I-83 area, so we most probably would recognize each other.
I know just about every dealer in the tri state area.

Joe_360

My VF-25 (by our Host) for reference - I would have yours graded (as Ricko "mine" say, it's value is beyond $200)

ifthevamzarockin

Nice coin!
If it is going in an album and not being graded, all that matters is that you are happy with it.
I would be happy to fill a hole with it.

"I see no signs of any cleaning."
It doesn't show obvious signs but the color seems off. (It may just be the photos)

"the old man is not the type to be cleaning coins"
He may not be the type and you aren't either, that doesn't mean it could not have been cleaned long before either of you owned it.

"if you wanted your set to match color"
Why would this be a different color than most other cents from the same time?
This should be your first indication it may have been cleaned.

"As this is a lighter tone."
Yes, the difference in color and the lack of any grunge on the coin is where the problem is.
Look through your album or any wheat cents you have that have been circulated down to a VF grade, after decades of circulation they are not as clean as this coin.

Some of the things you mentioned should raise a little red flag.
I do understand "woodies" can have some different colors.
It could just be the photos.
I could be wrong, I am wrong all the time and I will be wrong again.
You asked for opinions and you know what they say about opinions.

mr1931S

not an XF. Does appear to be genuine. Some 1909-S V.D.B.'s have a lighter, brassy color that should not be mistaken for cleaning.

HalfDimeDude

@ifthevamzarockin said:
Nice coin!
If it is going in an album and not being graded, all that matters is that you are happy with it.
I would be happy to fill a hole with it.

"I see no signs of any cleaning."
It doesn't show obvious signs but the color seems off. (It may just be the photos)

"the old man is not the type to be cleaning coins"
He may not be the type and you aren't either, that doesn't mean it could not have been cleaned long before either of you owned it.

"if you wanted your set to match color"
Why would this be a different color than most other cents from the same time?
This should be your first indication it may have been cleaned.

"As this is a lighter tone."
Yes, the difference in color and the lack of any grunge on the coin is where the problem is.
Look through your album or any wheat cents you have that have been circulated down to a VF grade, after decades of circulation they are not as clean as this coin.

Some of the things you mentioned should raise a little red flag.
I do understand "woodies" can have some different colors.
It could just be the photos.
I could be wrong, I am wrong all the time and I will be wrong again.
You asked for opinions and you know what they say about opinions.

Photos taken with lousy Samsung cel phone camera so no not a great image, it was also taken in a 2x2 flip.
I dont own the coin read the thread .
It hasn't been cleaned at all by anyone, after 60 years of collecting I am very knowledgeable

as to what Im looking at.

Color match is important to many serious collectors ,woodies can be light or dark and if you knew anything about medal mixtures from the late 1800 to the 1930's you know that time peroid copper ,bronze, CN can be many shades....do to impropper mixing of the alloys.
"grunge" your term can be found on all coins depending on their life in circulation from clean as a whisle to "grunge" on each devise.

I've see coins like this or even older... that actually spent most of their life, in a piggy bank,glass jar, coffee can etc.

and I am very confident of the pratice of the gent whom all these albums belong to. He is well known for his collection.

So you can speculate till the cows come home....but withour knowing all the details, and history on this coin,again its only speculation over what you think you know! Or believe you see from a photo in a 2x2.

lastly there are no Red Flags the coin is without a doupt an 1909 s VDB in vf condition that has sat in a album for probably 4 to 6 decades!

And yes opions are like Civil war generals a dime a dozen.
1930 woodie very dark, and the other 2 specimens are med to light in color. So they come in alot of tones.

ifthevamzarockin

"I've see coins like this or even older... that actually spent most of their life, in a piggy bank, glass jar, coffee can etc."

"that has sat in a album for probably 4 to 6 decades!"

It didn't wear down to a VF in a piggy bank , jar or album.
An AU coin could have spent most of the time in a piggy bank not a VF.

"but withour knowing all the details, and history on this coin"

You just purchased this coin for a friend and yet you know the history of the coin going back to 1909?

"its only speculation over what you think you know!"

Right back at ya.

You asked for opinions and I gave you mine.

HalfDimeDude

@ifthevamzarockin said:
"I've see coins like this or even older... that actually spent most of their life, in a piggy bank, glass jar, coffee can etc."

"that has sat in a album for probably 4 to 6 decades!"

It didn't wear down to a VF in a piggy bank , jar or album.
An AU coin could have spent most of the time in a piggy bank not a VF.

"but withour knowing all the details, and history on this coin"

You just purchased this coin for a friend and yet you know the history of the coin going back to 1909?

"its only speculation over what you think you know!"

Right back at ya.

You asked for opinions and I gave you mine.

*Once again reading and comprehension of what you are reading are two different things!

I said the coin was a "pick" for a friend....said nada about purchasing the coin.
Next never said it wore down in a piggy bank "your words "again !

However a coin that was minted in 1909 and was in circulation say until 1935 ,and then was put in a kids bank or a change jar most certainly hit the criteria....

Your words again... I never said I knew the history of coin , I said I knew the collector whom the coin lot was purchased. And he's very well known....in Numismatics.... however his personal business ,and name need not be mention in this thread in respect to his privacy.
lastly yes I did ask for opinions....however I didn't ask to be misquoted or snide replies.

Have a nice day!

ifthevamzarockin

"been collection over 50 years! So yeah not my 1st rodeo"

"after 60 years of collecting I am very knowledgeable"

Do I hear 70? Yes, we have a bid for 70 in the back row.

Did you just gain 10 years of knowledge in one thread?

"you're not dumb" your IQ is 143!"

You've been a collection for over 50 years?
What type of collection have you been?

"and haven't been fooledvyet"

fooledvyet?

"if you knew anything about medal mixtures"

I don't know anything about medal mixtures but I do know something about metal mixtures.

Maybe my reading skills would be better if your writing skill were better. 143 IQ ????

You can use whatever logic you want to justify what you are trying to say.
You asked for opinions on the coin, you got them.
It really doesn't change anything as to who actually bought the coin.
I love when new members feel the need to show the forum how much they know.
There is another new member that thinks his counterfeit is a new pattern and won't pay attention to the replies given.
I would think with a 143 IQ you would have learned by now to keep an open mind.
A smart person with a high IQ would just say "Thanks" to any replies.

Your reading skills leave a bit to be desired also.
I said:
"It could just be the photos."
"I could be wrong, I am wrong all the time and I will be wrong again."

Have a nice day!

koynekwest

Fine 15 I think.

PCGS_Moderator

@HalfDimeDude and @ifthevamzarockin
Let's keep it civil.

Let's keep the discussion is about the 1909 S Penny.
Thanks guys.

Legacy

Here is a VF25/CAC graded by PCGS.

lkenefic

To the OP... I think it's genuine, although a closer image of the date/MM would be helpful... I'd grade it VF20...

HalfDimeDude

@lkenefic said:
To the OP... I think it's genuine, although a closer image of the date/MM would be helpful... I'd grade it VF20...

Thank you and to be honest thats what I feel its a nice mid grade specimen that would fiill an album slot. And the friend who asked me to search isnt looking for something to slab, so condition & price to my liking is very doable!