Answered nothing to see here :)
SlickCoins
Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
Answered LMAO I only wish,,, oh wait it's too red hmmm 1793, the devices and fonts, the weight= which I'm sure since nobody says that Early American Copper could be underweight by 10% or more or 5% overweight & that coins are cancelled cause of the weight alone, it was bought as a supposed reproduction, of what hmmm 🤔 that's the famous question, the best is this coin beats an ex EAC President for 4 hours,,, yeah ok I believe you.
Yeah oh I've been told lol
Thanks again all
0
Comments
It is unclear what your question is, but if you are wondering if this coin is genuine, it is not.
The edge does not have the vines and bars (or letters).
from
https://www.usacoinbook.com/coins/97/large-cents/flowing-hair/1793-P/vines-and-bars-edge/
There are relatively high quality reproductions made of many old coin designs.
On this one, they did not bother to reproduce a correct edge.
https://www.landisstudios.net/product-page/1793-wreath-cent-proof-vine-and-bar-edge
You posted the same material to a different coin forum 10 days ago.
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=404274
What is a "1978 D LMC"?
What is it you want to know?
I'm guessing LMC is Lincoln Memorial Cent.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It’s a pretty nice looking fake.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Looks to be a copy of the S-8.
Pretty close, the only real difference to me is the beading is off.
The plain edge is also a concern, though there are reports of 'plain edge' specimens,
going back to Edward Froussard.
I agree... looks to be a copy... albeit a pretty nice one.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
and it still has the nearly universal weakness in the central parts, hair, ear, eyes, nose and where liberty would normally be. i did not read much of the op, so i'll bow out.
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I suggest editing the thread title to: "Copy Of 1793 1c Wreath, Vines and Bars" or "Counterfeit 1793 1c Wreath, Vines and Bars".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Welcome to the forum!
You bought it off ebay as a replica.
The seller has more listed.
If you think they are real why haven't you bought all this seller has in stock at $31 each?
You have posted this on several forums and all the replies have been fake/counterfeit.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203477274909?hash=item2f6030d11d:g:sWkAAOSwUO1g~vG9
The prevailing wisdom on ebay is that if it's too good to be true,
it usually is... BTW... Welcome to the forum!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
why not make an exact copy? why are there differences?
low quality fakes will have easy to spot differences. hang around here long enough and someone will post an ebay auction where a low quality fake is being sold as a real one. have a look then.
I do not see die breaks on the reverse. I do see some type of either die gouges or die polish marks.
here's a real one from PCGS' CoinFacts for the Wreath Cent with Vines and Bars edge
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1793-wreath-1c-vine-bars-edge-bn/1347
The coin posted from CoinFacts is a Sheldon 5.
The coin posted by the op is a Sheldon 8. If you can find a picture of an S-8, you’ll see it is an extremely close match for a die state I coin.
I was being lazy not finding the right match
It was just to show the overall look and feel is not rustic colonial but modern copy
Agree.
But I fear that someone somewhere is going to “wear” these down to VG and get the color close enough to fool average collectors and Sunday bourse dealers….ugh!
ty
Realize a good deal of what Breen wrote needs to be taken with a grain of salt....
Your coin is similar to an S-8, but not a match. Like I stated above, the beading isn't
a match, also neither is the line in the fraction on the reverse. They would not have struck
ONE coin with the die then discarded it, then made another with almost identical attributes for normal cent production.
If you want more detailed explanations about die ejection indicators etc, on early copper, you should try to reach out to Craig Sholley (if you can find him), or Mark Borckardt at Heritage. Mark Feld on the forum @MFeld can likely put you in touch with Mark B.
Good luck.
Your coin is an anonymous reproduction. While some manufacturers of reproductions like D. Carr and the Gallery Mint do have a following, unless you can identify the maker, I'm afraid there will be very little, if any interest in different compositions. However, if you find them interesting, go ahead and collect them.
BTW. I don't believe it's legal to sell this In the US because it's not stamped with COPY unless you can show it was made before 1970.
A $200. PCGS walk-thru will give you the answer you are seeking lickety-split.
peacockcoins
I agree with everyone 😊.
Just look at the faces on said identical reproductions, then if you all want I'll do side by side reverse.
I'm just lost, the one he says it's identical I would never buy.
Thanks again all
Your coin is a reproduction. The seller is selling them as a reproduction. I would guess the seller knows where they purchased them. I would also guess if you would have bought it from a seller in China rather than a middle man seller in Israel you could have paid much less and you could get hundreds of them if you want. It doesn't matter if they are made of bronze, copper, silver or tin it is a copy not some special off metal pattern. No matter how bad you want it to be something else it will always be a counterfeit. No matter how close it looks to the real thing it will always be a counterfeit.
I hope the amount of time you have spent posting this on different forums has been worth the education to you.
You have spent far more time on a cheap counterfeit trinket than needs to be spent.
Do yourself a favor and put it away with your other coins or just throw it in the trash but move on to something else.
You wouldn’t perhaps be over studying die markers would you? Or using a cheap Amazon scope?
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
No, it’s not real
And
No, we don’t want to buy it
No, it's not for sale.
All I'm doing is showing and asking questions, sorry if I show a hint of skepticism in your answers.
I'm baffled, so I figured the pros would know, lips, nose, eyes, chin, cheekbone all have a form of protection, in my opinion.
Thanks all
Glad I spent an hour trying to help and provide research, insight and avenues for you, only to get insulted.
Enjoy your coin.
I'm not trying to insult anyone, I'm simply saying it's the best I've ever seen.
You all are the pros, hence me posting here and everywhere.
Again I'm not saying this is real or anything I'm saying is, it's just a super mysterious replica that's all.
No insults intended.
Sorry, and thanks all
Have a great night
"So here is my new find, this coin has anti-counterfeit protection engraved into the die that struck this coin."
Not sure if you are asking a question or making a statement?
Are you asking if there was anti-counterfeiting protection on a genuine 1793 cent?
Or are you saying you believe your counterfeit has anti-counterfeiting protection?
"I'm not saying this is real, or that this kind of anti-counterfeit protection is a real thing."
So you are saying the coin isn't real and the anti-counterfeiting protection isn't a real thing?
"I'm baffled, so I figured the pros would know, lips, nose, eyes, chin, cheekbone all have a form of protection, in my opinion."
You are "baffled" because you are overthinking everything and confusing yourself.
You are welcome to your opinion.
A genuine 1793 cent did not have anti-counterfeiting protection on the lips, eyes, chin etc.
A counterfeit would not have anti-counterfeiting protection because that would just be silly.
"it's just a super mysterious replica that's all."
No, it's just super mysterious how you buy a counterfeit and somehow think it's real even after many experts have told you it is not.
I have a pattern proof and it just has to be a real pattern proof because it has the best finish I have ever seen.
Any coin or medal stuck in a collar will have ejection marks, even copies made on modern presses. If I am not mistaken the US mint did not use collars until the early-mid 1800's which alone should be enough to show that this coin is not the age it claims to be.
Here is a 2005 article by David Lange that goes into some detail. Yes, this is a tertiary source but the best I can do on the internet.
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/804/
Specifically this section. Bold and italic added by me.
"Until the 1820s the United States Mint appears to have used collars solely for centering planchets as they were placed upon the lower die. These were known as open collars, since they did not actually compress the coin during the striking process. Whatever edge device appeared on a coin was imparted in a separate operation, prior to striking. Most literature, including my own book on the history of the United States Mint, asserts that it was not until 1828 that USA coins were struck within close collars that actually formed the coin's edge (these are the Small Date dimes dated 1828). Recent research, however, has revealed that certain dimes and quarters display repeating collar flaws that establish usage of the close collar earlier in the 1820s."
Collector, occasional seller
pics are everywhere
Reading that is like trying to interpret a long paragraph of Yoda. Not sure what you’re trying to say.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
I don't really think he has any point, he just enjoys spoofing everyone on multiple coin forums for whatever reason.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
"My bad you all are correct, had me fooled that's for sure"
And you are back and still fooled.
Small minds are easily amused.
My bad with that a choke of words, I'm sorry lol.
That's an SP66 mmmkay, just saying
Counterfeit
And
No, we aren’t interested in buying it
It’s a poorly made modern fake. The differences are because it’s poorly made. Counterfeiters in China do produce fakes in copper, not that it really matters where it came from. People make all sorts of fakes. Nothing about it looks like a real coin and nothing about it looks like it hasn’t been struck within the last decade or so.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
"First, China doesn't make reproductions from copper, or so the internet says, that would be too expensive in just metal costs alone."
Clearly you didn't research this as much as you have everything else.
You can get them here for $1.70 and they are made of copper.
The images shown have "copy" on them but there is a very good chance the coins you get will not be stamped.
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20210809205754&SearchText=1793+cent
If I recall your story correctly (Either from here or one of the other sites)...
Just a quick question. How did a seller of multiple reproductions somehow get an real coin, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, mixed in with his fakes?
To paraphrase the 14th century monk and philosopher William of Ockham, The simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation.
Numerous experienced, knowledgeable, and credible collectors, early copper specialists, and numismatic researchers have said it's a fake on multiple sites. Time to stop the nonsense. If you believe its real, send it in for authentication.
BTW, I think this summarizes your explanation.
the Jewish on here will be quite proud to know the colonists brought in die sinkers from Israel
The guy is almost a good story teller… needs more practice.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Lotta words, not a lot of substance.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
I still haven’t figured what the point of this thread was. Half the OP posts seemed to be little more than predictive text stories mixed in with some shaming.
He’s trying to have fun at the board’s expense. Could be an alt, who knows. At this point he’s trying to keep the thread alive with more prose. Must have a lot of free time on his hands.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars