Certified MS65 Indian $2½s and $5s

ms71

It has long seemed to me that it's very tough to find the Indian $2½s and $5s certified by PCGS or NGC in MS65 or better and with a CAC bean (green or gold). So I had to check the pop reports, and here's what they have to say (all totals include both PCGS and NGC):

Indian $2½
Total mintage: 7,252,088
Total certified MS65 or better: 9,678 (0.13% of the total mintage)
Total with CAC bean: 739 (7.64% of those certified MS65 or better)

Indian $5
Total mintage: 13,163,143
Total certified MS65 or better 1,732 (0.013% of the total mintage)
Total with CAC bean: 229 (13.22% of those certified MS65 or better)

Of the total of 20,415,231 struck of both types, 11,410 (0.059%) have been certified MS65 or better and 968 (0.0047%) have been certified MS65 or better and have been beaned by CAC.
Anyway, I guess it's no wonder I haven't seen these on bourse floors. Big-name auctions or top-tier dealer sites are the only hope.

ms71

Deleted - problem solved by TurtleCat.

ricko

I cannot help with the gray box issue..... But those are interesting figures. Seems the coins were well used (i.e. large quantities below MS65) or melted. The gold $5 Indian is a personal favorite of mine. Cheers, RickO

BryceM

Yeah, I wanted MS65 examples for my type set but there's a significant price jump right at that level, especially for the $5. So, I picked out nice MS64+ CAC coins and got them for a bunch less. As you said, they were MUCH easier to find at that level too.

logger7

Most were melted, it is tough enough to get the $2 1/2 or $5 Indians to grade MS63 or MS64, then to get a 65 plus one that will pass muster with cac is doubly hard.

Crypto

@ricko said:
I cannot help with the gray box issue..... But those are interesting figures. Seems the coins were well used (i.e. large quantities below MS65) or melted. The gold $5 Indian is a personal favorite of mine. Cheers, RickO

I was taught it was more about the unprotected nature of the fields being incused than circulation as gold coins were well on their way out by the 20th cen. Their fields are often stuck MS64 with the design not compressive enough to fully strike out planchet irregularities

TurtleCat

The gray box is one of the various markdown codes. I can’t remember which one. Maybe I should use markdown more.

You can create some nice effects with the code block, for example.

In your case there is probably 4 spaces in front of each line of the gray block area.

Four spaces in front of this line
And this line as well

ms71

Thanks! That was it. Problem solved.

fathom

Yeah the 5's are TOUGH.

But what a great looking coin, well designed aesthetically.

Dscoin

The other thing with the $5 Indian numbers is the vast majority of of the 65s are 1908 and 1911 mint dates, after that very few are available.

Kove

Thanks for the info.

I knew Indian $5 were tough in 65 or better, but those numbers are even lower than I would have guessed!

WCC

For anyone looking for either as a type coin, it shouldn't be that hard to buy. Plenty of other coins in the same price range with this availability come up for sale often enough, as in every few months. Individual dates will be much harder.

winesteven

Here’s my Quarter Eagle. I got very lucky, as I bought this back in Feb ‘18 from Heritage for “only” $3,600.
https://caimages.collectors.com/coinimages/42396/34606078/lf[5].jpg
https://caimages.collectors.com/coinimages/42396/34606078/lf[5]1.jpg

https://caimages.collectors.com/coinimages/42396/34606078/lf[7].jpg

Downtown1974

I was happy to add this beauty to my collection recently.

JonBrand83

@winesteven said:
Here’s my Quarter Eagle. I got very lucky, as I bought this back in Feb ‘18 from Heritage for “only” $3,600.
https://caimages.collectors.com/coinimages/42396/34606078/lf[5].jpg
https://caimages.collectors.com/coinimages/42396/34606078/lf[5]1.jpg

https://caimages.collectors.com/coinimages/42396/34606078/lf[7].jpg

Very, very nice 1908. I have one just like it but not great pictures.

Cougar1978

What a super pickup on the 08 65+. It’s a $5500 coin per Coin Facts.

JonBrand83

Yah I def paid around price guide for mine. Nice going @winesteven

winesteven

@Cougar1978 said:
What a super pickup on the 08 65+. It’s a $5500 coin per Coin Facts.

When I bought this in a Heritage Auction back in February 2018, the PCGS Price Guide had it at that time at $4,600. The $3,600 I paid INCLUDING the buyers premium was even a great deal back then.

In my opinion, with NO data to back this up, I believe at that time (even though it was only 3-1/2 years ago) there were fewer collectors bidding then in those auctions than today. My sense is there were a lot of dealers bidding, as there still are today, but fewer collectors. Since I’m an aggressive bidder if I really want the coin, I don’t fear dealers, but only other collectors like me.

Separately, I also believe that more dealers and collectors value a CAC sticker more today than then, especially with gold. As noted in the OP, CAC is tough on gold with low percentages of graded gold coins meriting a CAC sticker.

Steve

asheland

@JonBrand83 said:
Yah I def paid around price guide for mine. Nice going @winesteven

That's S W E E T !

asheland

Not 65’s, but close enough to satisfy me:

BryceM

Like @asheland, close enough to gem for my purposes too:

asheland

@BryceM said:
Like @asheland, close enough to gem for my purposes too:

Very nice!