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*Bad* Perth Mint Gold Bars - Be Careful!

ashelandasheland Posts: 22,694 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Precious Metals

A dealer I know just got three of these in today. The PMV read bad, but, being in plastic we cut one open and investigated further. Acid text revealed the truth, plus they were significantly thicker!

My YouTube Channel

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Google is your friend.

    I personally avoid gold bars.

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,219 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dang

    They didn’t even use tungsten

    But every bar has been faked. The dealer needs more testing methods and comparison photos.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice copies - I have had people come in to sell them - people that know gold. A pawn dealer decided this was a great way to increase his profit margin.
    I personally like to use specific gravity - then I can tell you what the gold is plated over.

    thefinn
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    Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with derryb. I have zero interest in gold bars.

    MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940

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    MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,310 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gold bars. I agree…yuck! Of all the options available to me why gamble?
    OP, does this change your approach to buying gold bars?
    5 gram,why bother?!
    Good information to have but like others have said no way Jose do I take the chance on gold bars.

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
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    DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2021 4:51PM

    They bought them????

    Font off immediatlely....

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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah bad Perth mint gold bars everywhere for years now. Thanks for continuing to get out the word. BTW most of the PMV are EASILY fooled as well. Remain vigilant.

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,151 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    Yeah bad Perth mint gold bars everywhere for years now. Thanks for continuing to get out the word. BTW most of the PMV are EASILY fooled as well. Remain vigilant.

    What process is used to fool them?

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    BTW most of the PMV are EASILY fooled as well. Remain vigilant.

    You have obviously no hands on experience with a Sigma PMV when it comes to plated bullion. I know from first hand experience that it is great for identifying plated bullion.

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Sigma PMV will register a pure copper bar or round as .999 fine silver. The company knew about this when I called and just said that due to the similarity in conductivity, the detector couldn’t definitively distinguish them, and that the machine should only be used as “a test”, not “the test”.

    thefinn
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    PppPpp Posts: 467 ✭✭✭✭

    I found using Sigma PMV in conjunction with a scale and magnet on coins works really well in finding fakes.

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ppp said:
    I found using Sigma PMV in conjunction with a scale and magnet on coins works really well in finding fakes.

    @thefinn said:
    The Sigma PMV will register a pure copper bar or round as .999 fine silver. The company knew about this when I called and just said that due to the similarity in conductivity, the detector couldn’t definitively distinguish them, and that the machine should only be used as “a test”, not “the test”.

    Before using a PMV one should obviously apply the "sight" test. My PMV is used for the items that get past my eyes.

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I deal in U.S. gold coins... well, I do have a couple of Mexican gold coins, but I know they are authentic. For me, I stacked gold from the mint for many years - back when it was $3-400 toz.. I have also a lot of slabbed gold of interest, acquired back in the early 2K's, late nineties. I will not deal in bars or the dicey secondary market. Cheers, RickO

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    pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2021 1:19PM

    @thefinn said:
    The Sigma PMV will register a pure copper bar or round as .999 fine silver. The company knew about this when I called and just said that due to the similarity in conductivity, the detector couldn’t definitively distinguish them, and that the machine should only be used as “a test”, not “the test”.

    I think the company and most users are concerned with identifying things that are made to appear to be something they are not rather than weeding out the obvious (copper bar versus a silver bar). There is over a 15% difference in the density between copper and silver so weighing and measuring the size of a bar or round would reveal the difference if someone went through the trouble of making one to pass off as silver.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    I deal in U.S. gold coins... well, I do have a couple of Mexican gold coins, but I know they are authentic. For me, I stacked gold from the mint for many years - back when it was $3-400 toz.. I have also a lot of slabbed gold of interest, acquired back in the early 2K's, late nineties. I will not deal in bars or the dicey secondary market. Cheers, RickO

    Lucky you....Congrats!!!! Some of us are still acquiring gold coins (or trying to anyway). PMV is just another tool, no better than many of the much cheaper options but fakes are getting better by the week. Regards!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2021 8:08PM

    @blitzdude said:

    @ricko said:
    I deal in U.S. gold coins... well, I do have a couple of Mexican gold coins, but I know they are authentic. For me, I stacked gold from the mint for many years - back when it was $3-400 toz.. I have also a lot of slabbed gold of interest, acquired back in the early 2K's, late nineties. I will not deal in bars or the dicey secondary market. Cheers, RickO

    Lucky you....Congrats!!!! Some of us are still acquiring gold coins (or trying to anyway). PMV is just another tool, no better than many of the much cheaper options but fakes are getting better by the week. Regards!

    What other tools are you referring to? Can they test coins in slabs or bars that are packaged?

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
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    meluaufeetmeluaufeet Posts: 751 ✭✭✭

    I need a serial # on any gold bar I would consider.

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @meluaufeet said:
    I need a serial # on any gold bar I would consider.

    A S/N on the actual bar does not guarantee authenticity

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MilesWaits said:
    Gold bars. I agree…yuck! Of all the options available to me why gamble?
    OP, does this change your approach to buying gold bars?
    5 gram,why bother?!
    Good information to have but like others have said no way Jose do I take the chance on gold bars.

    Personally I do NOT like gold bars with some rare exceptions vintage, etc but the carded stuff, no way!

    I work in a B&M and see this stuff come in often.
    As for my taste in gold bullion, strictly bullion, eagles...
    but as many know on here, I’m more into the numismatic gold...

    My YouTube Channel

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have noticed the sigma passing copper under the 999 silver setting, however, it never in my observation passed copper under the 9999 setting.

    You guys should test that with your PMV sometime and see if it’s the same with yours...

    My YouTube Channel

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree the Sigma is not foolproof, but it can be handy with other tests and, most importantly, experience!

    My YouTube Channel

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    maplemanmapleman Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sigma functions well through airtites flips and bar plastic.
    It detected some bogus jm silver bars in sealed plastic sheets.

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    what a bummer

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