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Referrals needed

FilamCoinsFilamCoins Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭

Can anybody recommend a good firm for buying/selling PM's who also offer a storage solution for large volumes? Looking for a legitimate company with good customer service and fair prices who also have secure facilities and a decent online system for account management. A one-stop shop. Any referrals would be appreciated. Thx!

Comments

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,652 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The only one I would trust to hold my stuff is www.goldsilver.com

    thefinn
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2021 1:36PM

    If you're gonna trust and pay someone else to store your PMs you're better off trading precious metal ETFs.

    Learn and understand the difference between allocated and unallocated when it comes to third party storage.

    It's also possible that a lot of stored precious metal has been leased, without the owner's knowledge to another party.

    Unless you hold it yourself you only hold a claim to it. Claims can easily become worth only the paper they are printed on. Avoid promises when it comes to PMs. A "company with good customer service and fair prices who also have secure facilities and a decent online system for account management" can become a nightmare at the drop of a gold nugget.

    Bernie Madoff once had great references.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You’re asking the wrong crowd about storage “held in trust.”

    The advice? Don’t

    The hitch with these firms are also they’re not likely to be best on price/oz.

    I think APMEX & kitco come to mind

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No unallocated

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:

    I think APMEX & kitco come to mind

    I traded with a kitco pool account for a couple of years. Easy way to trade PMs without holding them. Then I learned more about counterparty risk and moved to holding my own metal.

    As long as the Titanic is afloat, the chairs are all lined up on deck. And then. . .

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Kitco does allocated but I didn’t know their min on silver was 500 oz

    But the size kinda makes sense now

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,175 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you don't take physical possession of your gold, do you really own it?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • FilamCoinsFilamCoins Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭

    Thanks guys. If I'm reading the fine print correctly, www.goldsilver.com, for example, says very clearly that they sell you actual (physical) bullion or coins and ship it to a depository where it is stored for you. It is not allocated to any trust and not mixed with other PM's owned by others. Sounds like a safety deposit box (or dedicated area) in a large vault so to speak. You can have it shipped and sold back to them (or others) anytime or have it shipped to you. Am I missing something?

  • meluaufeetmeluaufeet Posts: 746 ✭✭✭

    Goldmoney.com may work for you.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FilamCoins said:
    Thanks guys. If I'm reading the fine print correctly, www.goldsilver.com, for example, says very clearly that they sell you actual (physical) bullion or coins and ship it to a depository where it is stored for you. It is not allocated to any trust and not mixed with other PM's owned by others. Sounds like a safety deposit box (or dedicated area) in a large vault so to speak. You can have it shipped and sold back to them (or others) anytime or have it shipped to you. Am I missing something?

    Sounds like the usual language

    Never heard of goldsilver.com

    Should anyone commingle and sell what’s held as allocated, I believe you are treated as another unsecured creditor in a bankruptcy

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you don't hold it you don't own it. Rgds!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,297 ✭✭✭✭✭

    im not going to gamble like that. best wishes

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As clearly stated by many above, if you do not have possession, you do not have it. I would not trust a single one of those places, since it can blow up at any time. And guess who loses?? Yep.. those who 'thought' they had gold, held in trust. Cheers, RickO

  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Having someone else store your metals.... takes a huge amount of trust. In these times, who do you trust that much?? Fraud everywhere.

    ----- kj
  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2021 6:22AM

    @FilamCoins said:
    Thanks guys. If I'm reading the fine print correctly, ************, for example, says very clearly that they sell you actual (physical) bullion or coins and ship it to a depository where it is stored for you. It is not allocated to any trust and not mixed with other PM's owned by others. Sounds like a safety deposit box (or dedicated area) in a large vault so to speak. You can have it shipped and sold back to them (or others) anytime or have it shipped to you. Am I missing something?

    Did a quick check on their website. Sounds pretty good... till I got to the statement " Try it out. There are no contracts or terms of any kind. And if you’re not happy for any reason, we’ll ship you your metals."

    Seriously?? You're going to let someone sell you metals that you will never see... and let them send them to some third party storage facility in multiple locations around the world... and you will pay for that 'privilege'.... and there is no contract of any sort???

    Okay.... what can go wrong??

    ----- kj
  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't enjoy reading through contracts, with all of the typical legal wording and fine print. But the bottom line is that contracts are what protects both parties, and specifies exact procedures, ownership, responsibilities, etc.

    To me, saying 'there are no contracts or terms of any kind' is another way of saying.... we have no responsibilities.... ?? Perhaps such a firm is in fact totally responsible and reliable.... but I tend to be suspicious when it come to my money and not sure I would have that much faith without a contract of some sort. JMO... do your own due diligence.

    ----- kj
  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And another point that comes to my mind. The company you mentioned does NOT store the metals themselves. Instead, they send them to a 'third party' storage facility. You can 'manage' the metals though the company you purchased them from though, and they will execute your orders, redemptions, moving to another storage facility, etc. Sounds simple and easy.

    But think about it for a moment. For the company to be able to do so... they must retain some ownership of some sort or permission to handle the metals with the third party storage facility. So... do you really own those metals? Or... are they actually owned by the company that sold them to you, and your ownership only amounts to a ledger entry on their books? Again, how much faith do you have?

    ----- kj
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2021 6:20AM

    @tincup said:
    I don't enjoy reading through contracts, with all of the typical legal wording and fine print. But the bottom line is that contracts are what protects both parties, and specifies exact procedures, ownership, responsibilities, etc.

    depends on which party wrote the contract.

    Plan on another fee when/if your "storage" partner eventually ships you your metal. As you were advised earlier if you are not going to personally store your own physical metal, it is much safer and far more efficient to own a precious metal ETF that is protected by the SEC. I highly recommend PSLV.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Holding gold and silver as a fiduciary appears to be an expensive proposition and completely unregulated and very risky. I ask myself, 'why would I take the responsibility of holding someone else's PM's?' The answer is, only if I'm being paid very well'. No thanks.
    Filam, if you don't hold it, you don't own it.
    Good luck with what you're trying to accomplish. You'll need it.

    Have a nice day
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Contact me. I will show you how.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @streeter said:
    Holding gold and silver as a fiduciary appears to be an expensive proposition and completely unregulated and very risky. I ask myself, 'why would I take the responsibility of holding someone else's PM's?' The answer is, only if I'm being paid very well'. No thanks.
    Filam, if you don't hold it, you don't own it.
    Good luck with what you're trying to accomplish. You'll need it.

    A depository doesn't operate on luck.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Goldstartrust.com has facilitated a few of my customers. ( gold/silver IRAs )

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

    wild guess worth looking into:
    IRA custodial accounts have holder protections against loss due to the custodian

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2021 3:02PM

    RE PM IRA:
    why would anyone want to put a date stamp on when they can cash in their PMs?

    My PMs are part of my retirement but I pay no one to store them and I choose when they can be converted to dollars.

    On the other hand my ROTH IRA holds PM related ETFs that can be bought or sold any time prior to account maturity at retirement age. The only stipulation is that the funds have to remain in the account until retirement age or one has to pay a penalty for early withdrawal. It is an excellent way to grow a retirement account tax free simply by buying and selling at the opportune times. Even an initial investment with no subsequent contributions can grow beyond increases in spot.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,652 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FilamCoins said:
    Thanks guys. If I'm reading the fine print correctly, www.goldsilver.com, for example, says very clearly that they sell you actual (physical) bullion or coins and ship it to a depository where it is stored for you. It is not allocated to any trust and not mixed with other PM's owned by others. Sounds like a safety deposit box (or dedicated area) in a large vault so to speak. You can have it shipped and sold back to them (or others) anytime or have it shipped to you. Am I missing something?

    That's right. Your gold or silver allocated in a Brinks Depository of your choice.

    thefinn
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2021 9:54PM

    If the word "Trust" is in their title, then look elsewhere.

    If you don't hold it, you don't own it!

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,573 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If your going to have somebody else hold your PM's, best to not buy em.

  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,311 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One could also argue that even if you keep your gold in a safe deposit box, you physically don't own it.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
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