Newbie Tips for Selling a US Type Set
Hibernaculum
Posts: 5 ✭
Hi Folks-
My Dad was an avid coin collector in the 1960s-1980s. His main goal was a US Type Set, which he completed in the late 1970s/early 1980s. He passed away in 2019, and so my mother got it. She and my sisters would like to sell the set. Since I was a coin collector way back when, too, I got the task. All of my coin collecting was pre-internet, so I’m sure things have changed!
The type set has 92 coins and is in a glass frame with styrofoam inserts. Some pieces are quite valuable, of course. I think my favorite, though is the 1865 three-cent piece. My Dad pulled it out of circulation in 1937!
At any rate, I have lots of questions. I know that some of them are judgment calls, so I’m not really expecting that there will necessarily be ONE answer. Just tell me what you think and I’ll go from there.
1- Am I posting this in the correct part of the forum? If not, where does it go?
2- How do I handle coins? Cotton gloves? Any particular cotton gloves? What if they’re reluctant to come out of the case?
3- Given that I don’t haunt coin shows, I think the best thing to do would be to send in the coins for grading. What’s the best way to pack coins? What’s the best carrier to ship them?
4- I’m going on the assumption that the more valuable coins in the collection would benefit from third-party grading and slabbing. How valuable should a coin be to get graded? How cheap is too cheap to grade? I’ve got at least 20 or so high-value coins where I think TPG would be a slam-dunk. Also, since I’m doing a number of coins at the same time, it would probably make the price for TPG a little bit cheaper, since the extra shipping at least won’t cost much... I’m likely going to join PCGS and send them their for grading.
5- How long might grading take from PCGS? A couple of months?
6- I see price estimates on pcgs.com and elsewhere that give an estimate of what a given coin in a given condition is “worth.” I assume this would be an approximate dealer selling price. If that is so, what percentage of that might I expect to get when I sold the coins, i.e. what would be a dealer buying price? I know that the price I get is really only totally known once I have an offer or offers in hand, but I’m curious about what a ballpark might be compared to listed prices at a given condition.
7- Do the TPG outfits also take photos of the coins? It seems like this would be very helpful for sales.
8- What are the pros and cons of various ways to sell coins? Is there any possible advantage to selling the type set complete, or should I part it out? I know I could sell it complete for some sort of low-ball offer, but I guess what I’m wondering is if there is a ready market for complete type sets like this one. It seems like ebay is a ready marketplace for coins. My problem with selling there is that I, as of right now, have zero track record.
9- I live in Atlanta. Any recommendations for good dealers in the area?
Thanks in advance!
Comments
Perhaps start by showing us a picture or two of the group.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Post some photos of the coins you think are most valuable. The members of this board will than be able to provide you with much more useful information. Don't assume anything at this time and don't send anything in for slabbing until you have a better feel for what it is you actually have. (Many coins are not worth the cost of slabbing, including older ones.)
The coins will have individual values. The fact that were part of a type set will not count for much when it comes time to sell.
To that end, depending on the coins, the set itself may be worth more just as a complete type set. Most likely, the higher value the individual coins, the less (or more negative) the value will be if someone has to buy the whole set to acquire them. But if the coins aren't worth a lot individually, the set as a whole can be appealing and an easier way to sell. But to the point of the replies before me, at least a few photos to get started will really help get better advice, whether it's specific or just instructions about what else to photograph.
But in general your answers can be…
Two things to help you immediately and immensely-
1) Do not clean any of the coins!
2) We need good quality images of the coins to help.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If you truly wish to sell them and any are placed as worthy of submission from photos you provide on this forum, then you might consider an auction venue such as Great Collections. As I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, they will take the coins raw, and submit them for you at a reduced rate plus deduct it from the sales amount along with fees. There maybe restrictions as to what they will take, but again you will gain valuable information here once you provide good individual coin photos that are sharp and without blurry results. Try some method of holding the camera steady against something or in a camera stand would be great. Good luck and I look forward to your photos and your results.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Yes.
Dry clean hands should be fine, as long as you handle the coins by the edges.
If there are some extremely valuable high grade proofs / uncs, then gloves could be appropriate.
Pack in soft flips. USPS is fine.
You want:
slabbed_value > raw_value + grading_cost
Note that grading cost could be $30-40 each.
You should post some good photos of the better coins here, so we can advise on the likely grades.
Yes, a couple of months currently.
Depending on the value, dealers might pay 60-80% of retail.
Yes.
See other answers on selling it as a set.
ebay is a good option.
GreatCollections.com is a good option for moderate to higher value ($100+) slabbed coins.
I don't know, but others may.
A single auction house can sell them individually if sent as a set.
A dealer would likely offer for a decent condition whole set.
Either way the set will get sold.
The end point is not to take an easy way out with a dealer unless people here knows someone that would offer a fair value
You're getting great advice here newbie. Go with it. Don't even think about it.
To add; DON'T CLEAN THE COINS!
Thanks to everyone for the useful comments. I’m fortunate that my Dad had good records. It looks like some of the more noteworthy pieces are these, with terminology (and grading) from the 1970s:
1793 Chain Cent, F
1793 Wreath Cent, VF
1796 Draped Bust Quarter, VG
1796 Draped Bust Dollar, EF
1795 Liberty Dollar, Three Leaves, EF
1818 Coronet Quarter, AU
1793 Liberty Cap Half Cent, G to VG
1892 Barber Half Dollar, BU
Here are some photos:
https://tinyurl.com/ub4e4d8
As you can see, I’ve kept the coins in the mount for the moment. Some of them proved very difficult to photograph- in particular the older copper pieces.
So I think it's fair to say that you are correct, and yes, you definitely will want to grade some of those. I think most folks (myself included) think of type sets that are mostly the more common types. This one has many much scarcer (and more valuable issues) not often included in type set albums or boards. Some of those more valuable pieces do look to have issues (the copper has some corrosion, the silver looks cleaned), HOWEVER, those coins are still very much in demand and with the details remaining, command a significant price tag. Some of the more common coins won't be worth grading.
As has been said by others, do not clean the coins! While that's good advice in general, all the more so for the coins you have. They have a lot more value than the coins in most "how can I sell these coins?" posts, and there's a lot more to lose if they're mishandled.
Your set seems to contain many very desirable type coins. It is unfortunate that some have been cleaned as this will depress their price significantly. You will do best if you sell the coins individually as the high grade, uncleaned coins with no problems such as corrosion, will be in demand. Anything from the 18th century, cleaned or not, will also have real demand though the cleaning will hurt. You may want to slab coins with a true value of at least $200 in today's market as the slabs will make them more saleable and will also provide authentication. Authentication is important today because of the many fakes that have come in to the US over the past 25 years, most from Asia.
You may be best off finding a local dealer you can work with. This is where you will need to be careful. You need a trustworthy individual. Perhaps other board members who live in the Atalanta area can give you advice in this regard. (I don't live there and don't know the local dealers.)
Good luck!
You may want to consider a full service consignment and auction house like GreatCollections — https://www.greatcollections.com/main-sell
Send them the coins you deem worth being certified and they’ll handle getting them graded and listing them in an auction. This will minimize the time and hassle and get you a fair market price.
The pieces that aren’t worth certification you could see if your local coin shop would be interested in buying.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Thank you for the images. Unfortunately, much of the early copper is highly corroded and many of the better silver coins are severely cleaned. Truly, you only have a fraction of the value in that holder that you believe you have. This is quite common.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Roger on the not cleaning the coins. To my knowledge, none of these coins have been cleaned. I'm pretty sure I learned not to clean coins from my father! 22 of these coins my Dad had listed as "Brilliant Uncirculated". I know that today, there is a range of conditions that BU is split into, but that's why you see a good number of quite lustrous ones in there.
They have been cleaned. You can believe what you remember, but I know what I see.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If you’d like to send me your zip code through a private message, I’d be happy to see if I could locate a trustworthy dealer for you in your area. A number of other forum members could do the same.
Edited to add: Even if neither you nor your father cleaned any of the coins, some of them have been cleaned. It could have happened long before your father obtained them. Unfortunately, that’s not particularly unusual.
.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mark's as trustworthy as they come. Anyone who gets his vote of approval is someone you can feel completely confident working with.
I am sure better and more experienced eyes than mine can easily determine whether a coin has been cleaned. Hence the request for information on third-party grading. I would find it surprising, but it is what it is. TomB, which coins do you think have been cleaned? I would appreciate your opinion. Just know (and you'd probably agree) that getting into a back-and-forth on it isn't a great use of anyone's time, so if my Dad's notes say a coin was purchased as BU, and you say it was cleaned, I'll just say thanks again for your opinion and widen my expectations for what a TPG might say.
I understand what you are writing and appreciate your receptive post. A few folks in this thread have significant experience (@MFeld, @airplanenut, @291fifth, @Baley and myself) and we have more or less "seen it all" over two-plus decades on these boards.
Your situation is a common one with collections put together as you describe. The coin collector in the family bought coins during a time when condition was correlated mostly with remaining details and the negative aspects of surface preservation, manipulation or cleaning were not heavily discounted. The collector might have taken copious and careful notes, but as decades past and the hobby-industry changed, those notes became outdated. Lated, the heirs to the collection use the notes as primary source material and this is where the problems arise if the heirs stick to the original notes and don't learn that things are dramatically different today than they were in 1970 or 1980 (I was around then, too, so I have first-hand knowledge).
I'm going to dinner right now, but will post later tonight with observations.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I would ditto Mark Feld. If he can recommend a trustworthy dealer in your area that would be a tremendous help to you. It's going to be hard to make conclusive judgments on authentication and condition via photographs. There are some things that can be ascertained with high confidence via photos (cleaning) but a lot that can be missed. Having them in the hands of a knowledgeable dealer would be a plus.
Regarding the coins that have been cleaned, some of them still have numismatic value. Avoid doing any more harm by cleaning or otherwise mishandling.
Look forward to hearing the outcome.
Problems or not, you have some damn nice stuff there!
Considering there is already some back-and-forth over cleaning
Plus it has already been suggested they go to a TPG.
perhaps an auction house is the way to go over the dealer route.
Thanks for posting the photos.
Many of the above are worth $$ and worth slabbing,
even though many will come back as cleaned / genuine with no grade.
I would slab the two earliest half dimes as well.
It's true the Chain Cent is corroded, but still worth $$.
The 1818 quarter is a good example of a "cleaned" coin -
you can see the parallel scratches / scuff marks in the photo.
Other coins show as cleaned due to polishing or gray fields with dark around the stars;
an example is the 1839 dime.
Collector here, currently working on a very similar US type set.
Sure, some of them are cleaned. Some of them are quite valuable anyhow. Any genuine 1796 quarter and any genuine Chain Cent & Wreath cent are coins most collectors only dream of owning. Your coins have a decent amount of remaining detail.... and you never know, some of them will probably straight-grade as problem-free. One or two might even be counterfeit. It was the wild west when the set was assembled. Most early copper is corroded or has other issues - no surprise there. The small-eagle dollar is no slouch either. Where are the Susan B. Anthony and Sacagawea dollars?
So, it's a very, very cool collection with some valuable pieces in it..... but probably not so valuable as you might have suspected at first. It's a common occurrence that people with a collection like this show it to a dealer (who rightly needs to make a profit to stay in business) and the offer is only a fraction of what was expected. It's then quickly assumed that they're being ripped off, even when it's a legitimate offer. Of course, there are shady characters in the coin business (and every business) too,
To maximize the value, you need the help of an honest individual who has a proven ability to evaluate (grade) the coins, determine what warrants TPG grading, and who has connections to sell the rest of it as-is. I would leave the coins in the holder, intact until that evaluation happens. Only bad things can happen to them once they're removed. Others have mentioned Mark Feld @MFeld who works for Heritage Auctions as a consignment director. He's a former dealer and former professional coin grader. His opinion is as informed as they come in my book and he'll give it to you straight, both the good and the bad. He will also recommend a course of action that will get your family the maximum value out of the collection, even if that means his company doesn't end up with a consignment.
Do us all a favor here and report what happens. These old finds are really cool and it's this sort of thing that fuels the imaginations of collectors and dealers alike.
Yes, we definitely wish to know how you progress and would especially like some great photos of the key coins in the collection. Your Dad did a great job and should be well remembered by his family for collecting with such enthusiasm. I would also add my high regards for Mark Feld, whom you can trust to give you his best judgement and assistance. I wish you the best.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
A trustworthy dealer can maximize the return by preventing the stabbing of coins that should not be slabbed and the auctioning of coins that should not be auctioned.
I'm back from dinner now and will share some thoughts on the coins and why I might have decided to think certain ways.
All the dollars prior to the Morgan dollar look to have been at least mildly dipped or lightly spiffed up at some point. This is actually quite common and the coin can retain significant value, but the pool of buyers is also generally a little bit smaller and the prices (depending on the appearance of the coins) might be a bit lower. The two Seated Liberty dollars are far too circulated to remain so white, so they were at least dipped and perhaps something like baking soda was used on them at one time to lighten them up. They may certainly certify as straight-grade coins, but their relative values will be somewhat depressed. The Flowing Hair (labeled Liberty) and Trade dollars also appear dipped or lightly cleaned, but not as bad as the Seated Liberty coins. The two Draped Bust (Draped Bust and Heraldic) have the most natural appearance of the early dollars and may very well be pretty darn acceptable to most buyers.
The half dollars have me worried. The Liberty has what looks like pitted surfaces, is lightly stained and was dipped or cleaned in order to make it brighter. If the surfaces are pitted then the value is hurt quite a bit, otherwise it is simply depressed some amount. The 1807 Heraldic half has the appearance of a coin that had its dirt removed rather aggressively, but perhaps no hairlines were left behind. Truly, although it looks manipulated to me, it might not look as bad in person. The two Reeded Edge half dollars (1837 and 1838) both look unnatural and both have diagonal hairlines running throughout the obverse indicating either a full-blown cleaning or simply an unfortunate wipe. The 1837 is AU and the 1838 EF and they look white (from my interpretation of the images) and this would indicate they might have been dipped. The 1860 Seated Liberty half has diagonal hairlines throughout the obverse to indicate it was previously cleaned in a mechanical manner, this is considered a more severe impairment than dipping to most folks. The 1892 Barber half might simply have been dipped and, if so, lots of folks would be happy to own it, but there is something about the muted luster that makes me worry if it was dipped too many times, too severely or if it were wiped, too.
The early copper appears corroded, but these are still scarce coins and quite valuable, but not nearly so valuable as if they had smoother surfaces. The Coronet quarter is high grade, but it was unfortunately harshly cleaned and there are myriad hairlines from that cleaning on the coin, most obvious in the images in the field in front of Ms. Liberty. Many other Seated Liberty coins appear dipped, as well, but I might be getting confused as to what you have posted individually, what is posted as a group shot and what might be posted more than one time.
The images provided are okay, but obviously are not the same as seeing the coins in the flesh. Reach out to @MFeld and get his expert, unfiltered opinion. I may be wrong on some of these coins, given the limitations to the images, but I believe I am pointing you in the right direction.
Regardless of how dire my post might read, your father put together a terrific type set at a period of time when there was precious little help for collectors and he did a very nice job. It still has lots of value. Good luck!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I can't add much to what @TomB wrote above since it's quite detailed, but I'll give two thoughts to consider. First, I appreciate wanting to follow your father's notes while realizing that we're all strangers to you. If it's of any value, note that none of us have made any mention of doing anything to make money off the coins. No one here is saying "these are junk, and thus I'll offer you [low amount]." Hopefully that gives a little clout that the replies you're getting are unbiased.
Second, I've known @TomB and @MFeld (in real life, not just online) for the better part of two decades. I'm confident in my abilities, but I also know that if either one of them ever says something that counters my opinion, I have to very strongly consider it. There are many other board members here who fall into that category. Getting lots of people here to agree doesn't indicate we're all mean and just trying to counter your information, rather, it's a sign that there's probably a lot of truth to what's being said.
It’s been Harshly Cleaned.
Calling it just Cleaned is too gentle of a language for that
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1818-25c/5322
Here is an excellent example of a 1818 quarter. Notice no parallel cleaning lines
I'm just West of Atlanta. I would be happy to meet you at a bank and give you my humble opinion and possibly an offer.
@Hibernaculum.... Welcome aboard.... I cannot possibly add to the great technical analysis that @TomB provided above. His information, added to what several other respected members have provided, should provide your path forward. @MFeld is a superb resource (and professional) that can provide assistance with your collection. Good luck and let us know how things go. Cheers, RickO
Very interesting post and welcome to the forum! You've already received a lot of very good advice and I've nothing to add in that regard; except that I'm looking forward to follow up posts to keep us updated as to your progress with the dispersal of this set.
Do your homework before selling this material. Learn about the market for problem coins (the cleaned ones). You have a lot of in-demand types that should bring good money even if cleaned but you are also likely to attract interest from "buyers" who will only tell you how bad the coins are while making low offers. As others have advised, contact Mark Feld. He will point you in the right direction.
lots of good advice given and your dad did a good job putting together that collection
coins for sale at link below (read carefully)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wvMmoUmVZySywyXj7
Wow... what an awesome collection your father put together. As others have already stated, much of the early silver appears to have been cleaned at some point, but some have retoned over the years and may actually be "market acceptable" at this point. A TPG will definitely be helpful here. As for the early copper pieces, yes... corrosion... but many pieces minted prior to 1816 have suffered this fate, and certain coins (such as your 1793's) will still bring decent money because of rarity in any condition.
You have solid advice from quite a few highly respected numismatists... several of which have worked at TPG's during their careers... best of luck to you! ...and please consider posting grading results tot he Forum should you elect to go that route!
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Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and expertise! Mark connected me with a local dealer who I also imagine will be a good source of advice. I'll report back as things go along.
I hope you are able to keep it in the family.
It's a well above average inherited coin collection, and altogether the coins have significant value individually and in groups. Please do Not take comments, which appear to be accurate observations, regarding cleaning, corrosion, and other damage as saying the coins are worthless or that the collector was anything less than astute and skillful, as we do not know what was paid...
Coins with problems such as these are worth... less, not worthless
There is a concept called net-grading that accounts for these and deducts points for them from the Details grade, which is the degree of wear, versus surface Quality. Original surfaces, unmarred by abrasives, environment, or wiping/polishing, are almost often best, and then appraisers go from there, much like a classic car's or antique furniture's finishes.
The collection shows a preference for remaining details, and quite possibly some nice bargain- hunting, if the buyer was shrewd in paying Fair prices for the pieces over time.
Nice set overall, again far nicer than we usually see. Welcome to the forums, enjoy the journey. Lots of US history there, and many coins, if genuine, that even advanced collectors still dream of after 45 years in numismatics.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Send them to Great Collections Raw Coin Service they will get them slabbed then auction off. Give them a call. Get with somebody experienced in selling coins. Somebody who has the business ability get it done. If in Houston my recommendation US Coins - Kenny Duncan
Or get with an experienced major dealer in your area who knows how appraise, value, and sell coins. They will be able separate the coins worth slabbing and those not or just make You an offer.
Many estates I have appraised / purchased the nice stuff was sold off years ago leaving junk silver, worn slick type coins, cupro nickel proof sets, Rolls of SBA dollars worth face perhaps a MS 60 GSA Dollar not worth slabbing. But could be sold about 80 pct CDN bid. Sadly the heirs had a grossly inflated idea of value.
So you need to find out what’s there in the way of quality material.
I just want to say that it is the extremely slim chance that hoards/collections/inheritances will turn out like this that keep many of us coming back. In other words, if there weren't occasional lots like this, no one would ever answer a Craig's List post about a coin collection.