How many degrees would you say?

gumby1234

I know that what the holder says is wrong. I do not think its worth the cost of recertification. Tell me how many degrees you think this is rotated and after some responses I will show what the holder states.

airplanenut

120 or 60 depending on which way is up for the reverse photo

gumby1234

@airplanenut up is the top of the photo

airplanenut

@gumby1234 said:
@airplanenut up is the top of the photo

Then 120

pmh1nic

About 120 degrees if the eagles head is suppose to be at 0 (straight up)

Edited because I'm disoriented (happens when you get old).

mbogoman

50. It looks a tick further than 45...

Steven59

If eagles head should be up then I'm in the 120 camp

gumby1234

The coin is rotated 120 degrees as @airplanenut and @Steven59 say. Here is the holder. I need to know if they are required to reslab this at their expense because they mislabeled it.

rte592

The grader was right handed...120° rotated to the right.
Clockwise should be the direction or orientation of the ascending numbers.

amwldcoin

Does it really matter?

joeykoins

Magician coin?

gumby1234

@amwldcoin it matters in terms of value. Rotated rev coins with 90 degrees or more rotation are more desirable and thus more value. Also I think certification companies need to have the correct label inside the holder.

@joeykoins it is real

airplanenut

@gumby1234 said:
The coin is rotated 120 degrees as @airplanenut and @Steven59 say. Here is the holder. I need to know if they are required to reslab this at their expense because they mislabeled it.

Can you show a photo of the entire reverse side of the slab?

Hydrant

I would have to hold it in hand and have a protractor to give the correct answer......Otherwise, it's just a guess.

MsMorrisine

yeah... I'm lookin fer whole slab shot too

Steven59

@Hydrant said:
I would have to hold it in hand and have a protractor to give the correct answer......Otherwise, it's just a guess.

Then I'm guessing don't use the same protractor NGC used!

gumby1234

@airplanenut

PerryHall

A die can rotate in either direction. This coin is rotated about 60 degrees in the CCW direction so the label is correct. What if it were rotated 5 degrees in the CCW direction? Should the label say 355 degree rotation?

MsMorrisine

120 CW

now, you bought it knowing it's not 60. "must" it have 120 CW on the label?

PerryHall

@MsMorrisine said:
120 CW

now, you bought it knowing it's not 60. "must" it have 120 CW on the label?

I think you meant 300 degrees CW which is the same as 60 degrees CCW. There are 360 degrees in a circle.

gumby1234

@PerryHall No this 71D it is rotated 120 degrees clockwise. If a coin were rotated 5 degrees CCW thats what it should say. After 180 degrees CW it would be a CCW rotation of up to 179 degrees.

gumby1234

@MsMorrisine I know it is 120 degrees, but others (see above) do not realize it.

Edit* Even when they are looking at it in the photos.

joeykoins

Awesome Kennedy, dude!

USSID17

.....or obverse rotated. LoL!!

Great coin!

gumby1234

@USSID17 Thanks. They use the term rotated reverse because they generally don't know which die was rotated. When the obv is facing normal the reverse appears rotated, so that's how they do it.

airplanenut

@gumby1234 said:
@MsMorrisine I know it is 120 degrees, but others (see above) do not realize it.

Edit* Even when they are looking at it in the photos.

With all due respect, showing multiple photos with the slab not oriented up makes this more difficult. Yes, it's 120 degrees off because when the reverse of the slab is upright, the eagle's head should face down. Show the slab oriented properly and it's pretty obvious. NGC would probably correct it for free, but I doubt they'd cover shipping. They might reholder it at a show for no charge at all. That said, since this is pretty obvious (it's not one kind of error being called something else) I'm not sure I'd bother. Anyone seeing the coin in the slab can see the entirety of the error.

Steven59

@PerryHall said:
A die can rotate in either direction. This coin is rotated about 60 degrees in the CCW direction so the label is correct. What if it were rotated 5 degrees in the CCW direction? Should the label say 355 degree rotation?

Coins reverses are counted starting normal orientation which would be zero at the top. Even if you go by the tail feathers being at the bottom (180) like normal then it is still rotated up 120 degrees - (From 180 to 60 on the protractor which is a total of 120) Maybe the NGC grader got confused too?

gumby1234

@airplanenut its hard to get the holder in the pics with my digital microscope. The first pics are oriented correctly you just can't see the holder. Top pic with label up and second pic flipped top to bottom. Sorry for any confusion.

messydesk

I'm coming up with 117° CW rotation, assuming the obverse appears unrotated in the slab. Take it to a show and have them fix it. I suppose you could ask for "Medal turn with 63° CCW rotated reverse."

ShaunBC5

Maybe they meant to say that each one was rotated 60 in opposite directions, and we’re just acting like one side is 120

CaptHenway

55 degrees CCW

airplanenut

@gumby1234 said:
@airplanenut its hard to get the holder in the pics with my digital microscope. The first pics are oriented correctly you just can't see the holder. Top pic with label up and second pic flipped top to bottom. Sorry for any confusion.

I understand that… I’m just trying to point out why others may be getting confused. This is the kind of coin where a full slab shot of both sides (with the top of the slab up for both sides) really helps show exactly what happened.

johnny9434

I'll stick with i like the coin

gumby1234

@airplanenut maybe this is where phone photos would be better. I will try taking photos slab top up both sides when I get home.

1630Boston

2.1 radians

gumby1234

PerryHall

Now that we can finally see the entire slab, I agree with 120 degrees clockwise.

ricko

Well, those pictures make the issue clear.....Nice error coin.... Good luck with the label. Cheers, RickO

silverpop

error coin