@MKUltra24 said:
For most of human history people have bought things with silver and gold and sold things for silver and gold but only very recently has the world stopped using them as currency.
Did average people really do this for most of human history? Maybe copper and bronze. Probably a lot of barter going on in stable societies way back when, even when they had coins.
I guess I should’ve added that I meant recorded human history :P
Even so. Richer people had money, I doubt the average medieval peasant used money at all, they would use barter instead. Even copper or bronze, these things were useful metals and if you are using them as money then they are not being used for tools or weapons. The real reason gold and silver were useful as money was because they had no other use. They were useless, fiat currency was just a small step away from that, it is literally nothing.
Keep in mind a medieval peasant was when society was at its most unequal.
Prior to feudalism average people did have money. Not a lot but some.
For example a Roman legionary made 1 silver denarius per day under Emperor Tiberius.
They would have had nothing to barter like crops or tools because they served in the Roman Army full time so they would need to use money to pay for necessities. But I wouldn’t exactly call them “wealthy”.
Centurions were definitely wealthy since they made a minimum of 10 denarii per day which is 10x the pay of an average legionary.
On top of all that when a new Emperor came into power they also paid a “donativum” to the Army to buy their loyalty and often this donativum would be worth several years wages.
For example Claudius paid 3,750 denarii to each soldier upon coming to power. Considering a soldier made 1 denarius per day that is over 10 years wages.
On top of all that when a soldier retired they were paid another 3,000 denarii (12,000 sesterces) retirement bonus.
I think it’s fair to say even normal citizens had money and used money even if they weren’t rich.
@MKUltra24 said:
Oops my post went through twice for some reason. O_o
That article is from 2016 we are in 2021. I can't find it anywhere. Anyway what kind of house is he talking about? A cardboard box maybe I mean sheez with a dozen eggs costing $150.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
To coin collectors and bullion dealers, yes, but the average person has no experience with them, much less chopped up pieces of them.
Whole economies are built to accommodate those who can't figure out how to navigate life, we shall see how many people have been irreversibly dumbed-down. If things deteriorate to that level, I suspect that most people will get real smart, real quick.
I know many stackers fantasize about being king of the apocalypse with their piles of gold and silver, but the sad truth is that someone stronger or quicker on the draw will simply take it away from you.
You must really have a low opinion of stackers and our level of awareness and preparedness, and yet you have a plan for yourself. What's the sad truth here? You really think that's the mentality of most stackers? What differentiates you?
Yes! A large ammo stockpile will also attract those whole will want take it from you.
Nobody I know has a "Get your free ammo" sign out front. Do you?
Lay off the zero hedge. No houses are being bought in Venezuela for an ounce of gold nor is an ounce of silver feeding a person for 3-4 months unless perhaps they are an anorexic living off top ramen. lol
I'd like a first hand account from someone who has actual experience in Venezuela. Someone who posts here actually has that experience. Have you been there recently? Do you know someone who lives there?
The real reason gold and silver were useful as money was because they had no other use.
Gold and silver are no longer considered as legal tender, so if there is no other use, why is gold $1774 and why is silver $23.81? Something with no use should be very very cheap, right?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said: The real reason gold and silver were useful as money was because they had no other use.
Gold and silver are no longer considered as legal tender, so if there is no other use, why is gold $1774 and why is silver $23.81? Something with no use should be very very cheap, right?
You’re playing semantic games. In ancient times, gold and silver were used for money because of their relative scarcity. That’s also why they were used for jewelry. There wasn’t much practical use for them. In modern times, silver has use as an industrial metal. Gold is still heavily used for jewelry (around 25%, iirc) along with some industrial uses. And they both have “historical value” as money, which affects the price today, because they were money for thousands of years. Look at platinum as a counter example. It DOESN’T have a history of being money. 10-12 years ago it was worth a lot more than gold (10-20% IIRC) and today it’s about 2/3 the price. Because it’s primarily an industrial metal
Gold and silver are no longer considered as legal tender, so if there is no other use, why is gold $1774 and why is silver $23.81? Something with no use should be very very cheap, right?
American eagles are legal tender issued by the US Mint. They are not used in commerce simply because their reflection of faith in central banks and central bank policy makes them worth more based on their content and weight.
They have a use NOW, in the age of electronics, but that is a very new thing. And a large part of their value comes from the doomsday preppers.
All of their added value, comes from faith, or lack thereof, in the central bank and it's policy. The producers of electronics and solar panels are unfortunately at the mercy of this valuation.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Now that the Taliban has taken over Afghanistan, can we assume their coins and paper money are now worthless? Will people there resort to bartering with gold and silver coins? Will the Taliban print new money? It will be interesting to see what happens there.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Now that the Taliban has taken over Afghanistan, can we assume their coins and paper money are now worthless? Will people there resort to bartering with gold and silver coins? Will the Taliban print new money? It will be interesting to see what happens there.
They will continue to trade in US supplied suitcases of $100 bills.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
@PerryHall said:
Now that the Taliban has taken over Afghanistan, can we assume their coins and paper money are now worthless? Will people there resort to bartering with gold and silver coins? Will the Taliban print new money? It will be interesting to see what happens there.
I think even in ancient times, gold wasn't used that often for individual commerce. I believe it was mostly silver and bronze (or whatever base metal/alloy).
No country has gone back to the gold standard after moving to fiat currency. For one thing, basing the money supply on gold means that the economy is only able to grow if more gold is added. Remember how the sinking of the SS Central America helped exacerbate the Panic of 1857. If a new gold deposit is discovered, you end up with inflation, etc.
a large part of their value comes from the doomsday preppers.
Most industry reports that I've ever read note that private gold & silver holders are a minor component in precious metal demand.
Look at platinum as a counter example. It DOESN’T have a history of being money. 10-12 years ago it was worth a lot more than gold (10-20% IIRC) and today it’s about 2/3 the price. Because it’s primarily an industrial metal
The reason that platinum dropped below the price of gold is simply because the automotive industry switched from platinum to palladium for catalytic converters in gasoline vehicles.
Yes, but if you could make gold and silver into swords or ploughs or something useful they would not have been a good thing to use as money because then you could not have done useful things with it.
Except for one thing - it never happened.
Uselessness is the primary attribute a potential thing needs to have to be useful as money
I know of no useless material that would ever qualify as money. Hey, I'd be glad to trade you 3 oz of dried grass clipping for a 1 oz gold eagle.
basing the money supply on gold means that the economy is only able to grow if more gold is added
Not so. The economy expanded greatly during the Industrial Revolution - while gold was used to back credit, and letters of credit based on gold were key to a stable dollar and a booming economy. The difference between credit then and credit now, is that credit is no longer based on anything tangible. Crazy and irrational levels of leverage is exactly what the banks are selling. For a profit. The house always wins.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@derryb said:
American eagles are legal tender issued by the US Mint. They are not used in commerce simply because
The are not used in commerce because they were never intended to be used in commerce. If they wanted them to be used in commerce they could simply make them the size of a dime.
It's just a way for them to make a billion a year selling silver.
Thanks to legislation introduced by Ron Paul, it is a convenient way for Americans to buy and own precious metals. That does not take away from the fact that they meet the definition of legal tender. If silver were to suddenly drop to 25 cents an ounce, cash registers would fill with them.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
No country has gone back to the gold standard after moving to fiat currency. For one thing, basing the money supply on gold means that the economy is only able to grow if more gold is added. Remember how the sinking of the SS Central America helped exacerbate the Panic of 1857. If a new gold deposit is discovered, you end up with inflation, etc.
You can explain that to a gold bug until you are blue in that face, it is pointless, they do not care. They want deflation because they will get to be rich as society collapses.
An informed gold bug wants no such thing because while his gold will protect the small portion of his assets held in it the others lose a lot of value. An informed gold bug is simply hedging some of his declining currency.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Thanks to legislation introduced by Ron Paul, it is a convenient way for Americans to buy and own precious metals. That does not take away from the fact that they meet the definition of legal tender. If silver were to suddenly drop to 25 cents an ounce, cash registers would fill with them.
I really doubt that.
doubting facts does not make them less true.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
@derryb said:
Thanks to legislation introduced by Ron Paul, it is a convenient way for Americans to buy and own precious metals.
This doesn't make sense though, it is very very easy to buy metals if you have the money. More likely is that he has political donors who are silver producers. But haven't they been making these since the 80s?
Since 1986. Paul made it easier for Americans to buy and hold quality precious metals by requiring their government to make the metals readily available. Prior to that Americans had to depend on foreign mints and often shady bullion dealers. The premiums that still exist on American Eagles give testimony to the value and success of Paul's vision.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
No country has gone back to the gold standard after moving to fiat currency. For one thing, basing the money supply on gold means that the economy is only able to grow if more gold is added. Remember how the sinking of the SS Central America helped exacerbate the Panic of 1857. If a new gold deposit is discovered, you end up with inflation, etc.
You can explain that to a gold bug until you are blue in that face, it is pointless, they do not care. They want deflation because they will get to be rich as society collapses.
I don’t think anyone is expecting to be “rich as society collapses”.
Think about it. If society collapses what’s the point of being rich? It’s not like there will be luxuries to buy in the first place.
I think many gold bugs are hoping just to have something to survive on if society collapses. Not just gold either but silver too.
Like maybe that 1 oz of silver will be able to buy them some drinking water and maybe that 1 oz of gold will be able to buy them food for a week.
Fiat money definitely would be useless if there are no governments to back it.
It’s kind of like the people who buy guns & ammo hoping that if society collapses they will be able to defend themselves even though chances are their guns & ammo will be taken from them by force within days.
Since 1986. Paul made it easier for Americans to buy and hold quality precious metals by requiring their government to make the metals readily available. Prior to that Americans had to depend on foreign mints and often shady bullion dealers. The premiums that still exist on American Eagles give testimony to the value and success of Paul's vision.
Oh, Ron Paul, I was thinking Rand.
Keep in mind Ron Paul has vested interests in multiple gold/silver mines. He certainly has motive to pump it to the people at high prices.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Since 1986. Paul made it easier for Americans to buy and hold quality precious metals by requiring their government to make the metals readily available. Prior to that Americans had to depend on foreign mints and often shady bullion dealers. The premiums that still exist on American Eagles give testimony to the value and success of Paul's vision.
Oh, Ron Paul, I was thinking Rand.
Keep in mind Ron Paul has vested interests in multiple gold/silver mines. He certainly has motive to pump it to the people at high prices.
Does he have interests because he believes in what he pushes? Or does he pump it because he has interests?
Since 1986. Paul made it easier for Americans to buy and hold quality precious metals by requiring their government to make the metals readily available. Prior to that Americans had to depend on foreign mints and often shady bullion dealers. The premiums that still exist on American Eagles give testimony to the value and success of Paul's vision.
Oh, Ron Paul, I was thinking Rand.
Keep in mind Ron Paul has vested interests in multiple gold/silver mines. He certainly has motive to pump it to the people at high prices.
Maybe he puts his money where his mouth is.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Since 1986. Paul made it easier for Americans to buy and hold quality precious metals by requiring their government to make the metals readily available. Prior to that Americans had to depend on foreign mints and often shady bullion dealers. The premiums that still exist on American Eagles give testimony to the value and success of Paul's vision.
Oh, Ron Paul, I was thinking Rand.
Keep in mind Ron Paul has vested interests in multiple gold/silver mines. He certainly has motive to pump it to the people at high prices.
being the troubadour of "sound money" that he is and his published awareness of the FED's role in economy destruction it would not surprise me at all to know he has such dollar insurance. However, somehow I get the feeling that this is also just another case of you claiming to know all about the investment choices of others.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Since 1986. Paul made it easier for Americans to buy and hold quality precious metals by requiring their government to make the metals readily available. Prior to that Americans had to depend on foreign mints and often shady bullion dealers. The premiums that still exist on American Eagles give testimony to the value and success of Paul's vision.
Oh, Ron Paul, I was thinking Rand.
Keep in mind Ron Paul has vested interests in multiple gold/silver mines. He certainly has motive to pump it to the people at high prices.
Maybe he puts his money where his mouth is.
Perhaps, although much more likely he's just another doomsday snake oil salesman.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Since 1986. Paul made it easier for Americans to buy and hold quality precious metals by requiring their government to make the metals readily available. Prior to that Americans had to depend on foreign mints and often shady bullion dealers. The premiums that still exist on American Eagles give testimony to the value and success of Paul's vision.
Oh, Ron Paul, I was thinking Rand.
Keep in mind Ron Paul has vested interests in multiple gold/silver mines. He certainly has motive to pump it to the people at high prices.
Maybe he puts his money where his mouth is.
Perhaps, although much more likely he's just another doomsday snake oil salesman.
You mean like those who warned of the 08 crisis? lol
Truth (economic crisis) hurts, but only if you fail to recognize and prepare for it.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I don’t think anyone is expecting to be “rich as society collapses”.
They want gold to be used as money because they have gold stockpiles and the value would increase if it is used as money. They don't worry so much that the value would keep going up (deflation) and destroy society.
I am talking about the crazy gold bugs i have meet on the net, not every person who has gold. There are significant numbers of people who want a new gold standard, some of them are in congress.
When I first started stacking I used to dream of returning to the gold/silver standard.
Then I realized how vulnerable it would make our economy.
For example the US national debt alone is more than the value of all the gold ever mined and ever will be mined on Earth for centuries.
The government needs to be able to manipulate the economy during times of crisis.
Like during COVID they needed to be able to inject liquidity into the population to avoid the depression and severe deflation that would result if 100 million people were suddenly unemployed.
However by doing that they also taxed the heck out of the population by injecting huge amounts of money that made all the existing money in circulation worth less. Every dollar printed makes every other existing dollar worth slightly less. Inflation.
So yeah the gold standard wouldn’t work today. Unless they decided to peg it at $1900/oz or something crazy like when it was pegged at $20.67/oz.
However maybe something like a fractional bi-metallic standard would be possible. Like maybe every $100 printed had to be backed by $1 in gold, silver, or some other fungible commodity. But don’t quote me on that it’s just my own thought and I’m not an economist or even close to one.
currency will never again be backed by anything but printing press, ink and paper.
Owning physical gold as protection against the consequences of another failed financial and currency system does not necessarily make one a prepper or a gold bug. In most cases it is the result of being an apt student of economic history.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
The thing the gold bugs don't like is that fiat currency is debt, but money is ALWAYS debt. If I have money, gold or fiat, I own debt. The economic system OWES me something. What matters is if an the economic system can honor that debt, can they produce the goods when I demand them.
If you own gold, the system does NOT owe you anything, and further - gold isn't debt in any way. Gold has no counterparties and its value is market-driven except for Central Bank intervention into the gold market.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@BadWithMoney said:
money is ALWAYS debt. If I have money, gold or fiat, I own debt. The economic system OWES me something.
a debt (financial promise) held is an asset, a debt owed is a liability. However, there is no debt associated with a physical asset such as gold. Your only "claim" is what another party is willing to trade you for it.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
@jmski52 said: The thing the gold bugs don't like is that fiat currency is debt, but money is ALWAYS debt. If I have money, gold or fiat, I own debt. The economic system OWES me something. What matters is if an the economic system can honor that debt, can they produce the goods when I demand them.
If you own gold, the system does NOT owe you anything, and further - gold isn't debt in any way. Gold has no counterparties and its value is market-driven except for Central Bank intervention into the gold market.
When gold was used as money, it was debt, the same way that when fiat currency is money, it is debt.
money is not debt. No one is under any obligation to give you anything for it. Acceptance of it is strictly voluntary, except when used to pay taxes.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
money is not debt. No one is under any obligation to give you anything for it. Acceptance of it is strictly voluntary, except when used to pay taxes.
You need to read what it says on the bill. Legal tender for all debts, public and private.
lol that only means it is recognized by the gov as a medium of exchange, it does not mean the other party has to accept it. Tell ya what, I'll give you $1 for every ounce of silver you send me. Are you obligated to meet my price?
Any time you receive any kind of token as payment, debt is created. Scribble an IOU when you borrow 20 bucks from someone and you have just increased the money supply.
Debt does not increase the money supply unless the lender creates new money out of thin air to fund the debt such as with the banking fractional lending system. I you hand me an IOU for $20 bucks the only thing created was your promise to give it back.
debt is only created when future payment is involved (your IOU example). Giving up $5 for a pack of smokes does not create debt, it is an exchange of money for product. It is not an exchange of future payment for product.
You like to argue just for the sake of arguing, right? lol
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
@taxmad said: @derryb - you did notice his username, right?
You guys need to go watch some youtube videos or something so you know how this stuff works. I would suggest reading but I don't think that will do it for you.
That's actually where they get all their data. The Bulgarian youtube anyways. lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Comments
Keep in mind a medieval peasant was when society was at its most unequal.
Prior to feudalism average people did have money. Not a lot but some.
For example a Roman legionary made 1 silver denarius per day under Emperor Tiberius.
They would have had nothing to barter like crops or tools because they served in the Roman Army full time so they would need to use money to pay for necessities. But I wouldn’t exactly call them “wealthy”.
Centurions were definitely wealthy since they made a minimum of 10 denarii per day which is 10x the pay of an average legionary.
On top of all that when a new Emperor came into power they also paid a “donativum” to the Army to buy their loyalty and often this donativum would be worth several years wages.
For example Claudius paid 3,750 denarii to each soldier upon coming to power. Considering a soldier made 1 denarius per day that is over 10 years wages.
On top of all that when a soldier retired they were paid another 3,000 denarii (12,000 sesterces) retirement bonus.
I think it’s fair to say even normal citizens had money and used money even if they weren’t rich.
That article is from 2016 we are in 2021. I can't find it anywhere. Anyway what kind of house is he talking about? A cardboard box maybe I mean sheez with a dozen eggs costing $150.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
To coin collectors and bullion dealers, yes, but the average person has no experience with them, much less chopped up pieces of them.
Whole economies are built to accommodate those who can't figure out how to navigate life, we shall see how many people have been irreversibly dumbed-down. If things deteriorate to that level, I suspect that most people will get real smart, real quick.
I know many stackers fantasize about being king of the apocalypse with their piles of gold and silver, but the sad truth is that someone stronger or quicker on the draw will simply take it away from you.
You must really have a low opinion of stackers and our level of awareness and preparedness, and yet you have a plan for yourself. What's the sad truth here? You really think that's the mentality of most stackers? What differentiates you?
Yes! A large ammo stockpile will also attract those whole will want take it from you.
Nobody I know has a "Get your free ammo" sign out front. Do you?
Lay off the zero hedge. No houses are being bought in Venezuela for an ounce of gold nor is an ounce of silver feeding a person for 3-4 months unless perhaps they are an anorexic living off top ramen. lol
I'd like a first hand account from someone who has actual experience in Venezuela. Someone who posts here actually has that experience. Have you been there recently? Do you know someone who lives there?
The real reason gold and silver were useful as money was because they had no other use.
Gold and silver are no longer considered as legal tender, so if there is no other use, why is gold $1774 and why is silver $23.81? Something with no use should be very very cheap, right?
I knew it would happen.
You’re playing semantic games. In ancient times, gold and silver were used for money because of their relative scarcity. That’s also why they were used for jewelry. There wasn’t much practical use for them. In modern times, silver has use as an industrial metal. Gold is still heavily used for jewelry (around 25%, iirc) along with some industrial uses. And they both have “historical value” as money, which affects the price today, because they were money for thousands of years. Look at platinum as a counter example. It DOESN’T have a history of being money. 10-12 years ago it was worth a lot more than gold (10-20% IIRC) and today it’s about 2/3 the price. Because it’s primarily an industrial metal
American eagles are legal tender issued by the US Mint. They are not used in commerce simply because their reflection of faith in central banks and central bank policy makes them worth more based on their content and weight.
All of their added value, comes from faith, or lack thereof, in the central bank and it's policy. The producers of electronics and solar panels are unfortunately at the mercy of this valuation.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Now that the Taliban has taken over Afghanistan, can we assume their coins and paper money are now worthless? Will people there resort to bartering with gold and silver coins? Will the Taliban print new money? It will be interesting to see what happens there.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
They will continue to trade in US supplied suitcases of $100 bills.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I think even in ancient times, gold wasn't used that often for individual commerce. I believe it was mostly silver and bronze (or whatever base metal/alloy).
No country has gone back to the gold standard after moving to fiat currency. For one thing, basing the money supply on gold means that the economy is only able to grow if more gold is added. Remember how the sinking of the SS Central America helped exacerbate the Panic of 1857. If a new gold deposit is discovered, you end up with inflation, etc.
a large part of their value comes from the doomsday preppers.
Most industry reports that I've ever read note that private gold & silver holders are a minor component in precious metal demand.
Look at platinum as a counter example. It DOESN’T have a history of being money. 10-12 years ago it was worth a lot more than gold (10-20% IIRC) and today it’s about 2/3 the price. Because it’s primarily an industrial metal
The reason that platinum dropped below the price of gold is simply because the automotive industry switched from platinum to palladium for catalytic converters in gasoline vehicles.
Yes, but if you could make gold and silver into swords or ploughs or something useful they would not have been a good thing to use as money because then you could not have done useful things with it.
Except for one thing - it never happened.
Uselessness is the primary attribute a potential thing needs to have to be useful as money
I know of no useless material that would ever qualify as money. Hey, I'd be glad to trade you 3 oz of dried grass clipping for a 1 oz gold eagle.
basing the money supply on gold means that the economy is only able to grow if more gold is added
Not so. The economy expanded greatly during the Industrial Revolution - while gold was used to back credit, and letters of credit based on gold were key to a stable dollar and a booming economy. The difference between credit then and credit now, is that credit is no longer based on anything tangible. Crazy and irrational levels of leverage is exactly what the banks are selling. For a profit. The house always wins.
I knew it would happen.
Thanks to legislation introduced by Ron Paul, it is a convenient way for Americans to buy and own precious metals. That does not take away from the fact that they meet the definition of legal tender. If silver were to suddenly drop to 25 cents an ounce, cash registers would fill with them.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
An informed gold bug wants no such thing because while his gold will protect the small portion of his assets held in it the others lose a lot of value. An informed gold bug is simply hedging some of his declining currency.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
doubting facts does not make them less true.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
The difference between a gold bug and a prepper is why they hold gold. I believe most here consider themselves gold bug stackers.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Since 1986. Paul made it easier for Americans to buy and hold quality precious metals by requiring their government to make the metals readily available. Prior to that Americans had to depend on foreign mints and often shady bullion dealers. The premiums that still exist on American Eagles give testimony to the value and success of Paul's vision.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I don’t think anyone is expecting to be “rich as society collapses”.
Think about it. If society collapses what’s the point of being rich? It’s not like there will be luxuries to buy in the first place.
I think many gold bugs are hoping just to have something to survive on if society collapses. Not just gold either but silver too.
Like maybe that 1 oz of silver will be able to buy them some drinking water and maybe that 1 oz of gold will be able to buy them food for a week.
Fiat money definitely would be useless if there are no governments to back it.
It’s kind of like the people who buy guns & ammo hoping that if society collapses they will be able to defend themselves even though chances are their guns & ammo will be taken from them by force within days.
Keep in mind Ron Paul has vested interests in multiple gold/silver mines. He certainly has motive to pump it to the people at high prices.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Does he have interests because he believes in what he pushes? Or does he pump it because he has interests?
My Ebay Store
Maybe he puts his money where his mouth is.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
being the troubadour of "sound money" that he is and his published awareness of the FED's role in economy destruction it would not surprise me at all to know he has such dollar insurance. However, somehow I get the feeling that this is also just another case of you claiming to know all about the investment choices of others.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Perhaps, although much more likely he's just another doomsday snake oil salesman.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
You mean like those who warned of the 08 crisis? lol
Truth (economic crisis) hurts, but only if you fail to recognize and prepare for it.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Some would give it to them one at a time (maybe). Take your chances I guess
When I first started stacking I used to dream of returning to the gold/silver standard.
Then I realized how vulnerable it would make our economy.
For example the US national debt alone is more than the value of all the gold ever mined and ever will be mined on Earth for centuries.
The government needs to be able to manipulate the economy during times of crisis.
Like during COVID they needed to be able to inject liquidity into the population to avoid the depression and severe deflation that would result if 100 million people were suddenly unemployed.
However by doing that they also taxed the heck out of the population by injecting huge amounts of money that made all the existing money in circulation worth less. Every dollar printed makes every other existing dollar worth slightly less. Inflation.
So yeah the gold standard wouldn’t work today. Unless they decided to peg it at $1900/oz or something crazy like when it was pegged at $20.67/oz.
However maybe something like a fractional bi-metallic standard would be possible. Like maybe every $100 printed had to be backed by $1 in gold, silver, or some other fungible commodity. But don’t quote me on that it’s just my own thought and I’m not an economist or even close to one.
currency will never again be backed by anything but printing press, ink and paper.
Owning physical gold as protection against the consequences of another failed financial and currency system does not necessarily make one a prepper or a gold bug. In most cases it is the result of being an apt student of economic history.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
The thing the gold bugs don't like is that fiat currency is debt, but money is ALWAYS debt. If I have money, gold or fiat, I own debt. The economic system OWES me something. What matters is if an the economic system can honor that debt, can they produce the goods when I demand them.
If you own gold, the system does NOT owe you anything, and further - gold isn't debt in any way. Gold has no counterparties and its value is market-driven except for Central Bank intervention into the gold market.
I knew it would happen.
a debt (financial promise) held is an asset, a debt owed is a liability. However, there is no debt associated with a physical asset such as gold. Your only "claim" is what another party is willing to trade you for it.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
money is not debt. No one is under any obligation to give you anything for it. Acceptance of it is strictly voluntary, except when used to pay taxes.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
lol that only means it is recognized by the gov as a medium of exchange, it does not mean the other party has to accept it. Tell ya what, I'll give you $1 for every ounce of silver you send me. Are you obligated to meet my price?
Debt does not increase the money supply unless the lender creates new money out of thin air to fund the debt such as with the banking fractional lending system. I you hand me an IOU for $20 bucks the only thing created was your promise to give it back.
debt is only created when future payment is involved (your IOU example). Giving up $5 for a pack of smokes does not create debt, it is an exchange of money for product. It is not an exchange of future payment for product.
You like to argue just for the sake of arguing, right? lol
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
@derryb - you did notice his username, right?
That's actually where they get all their data. The Bulgarian youtube anyways. lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Another few added to ignore list
Economics 101: "The Banking System, Debt and the Creation of Money."
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong