Ebay question. Or pet peeve. Or maybe I'm the crazy one?
Weiss
Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
When you yourself personally go to the store, or to Amazon, or pretty much any retail website you can name, when you buy something, you pay for that item instantly. There is no option to "buy" the item and then maybe pay for it 2 or 3 days later, when you finally get around to it, or maybe you just never pay for it because you got sick or forgot about it.
So why does eBay work that way?
Twice recently I've sold a couple of mid-range items ($100 to $350) with this issue. The first buyer bought an item (a newly listed item, pretty hot with 10 watchers and 100 views) on Sunday night/Monday morning. They messaged me late Monday to say they would pay Thursday. They are a seasoned eBayer with 200+ feedback. That's against eBay policy--which allows 48 hours for payment (correct me if I'm wrong). I messaged back to say that I had no control over how eBay moves a non-paying buyer through its dispute system. Lo and behold, they paid last night (Tuesday). About 48 hours after they clicked "buy".
The second made an offer 20% lower than my sale price, which I accepted, within about an hour of their offer. In this case, a new eBayer with just a few feedback. And now 72 hours later there has been no communication and no payment. Three days and nothing. eBay automatically reminds the "buyer" that they are expected to pay if they haven't 12 to 24 hours after they "buy". And then they send a more firm message a little later. But you, the seller, can't cancel the sale and relist with no fees for four days. My gut tells me there is a bit of a stigma attached to an item that "sells" and then relists 4 or 5 days later. Especially in a field like ours where we look for specific items with specific attributes. Like the item was returned for having issues. On that your mileage may vary. But it certainly doesn't seem like a positive.
Should buyers on eBay be allowed to "buy" something and not pay for it instantaneously? If yes...why? I get that eBay is eBay and they get to set the rules. But what good does it do the seller, the buyer, or eBay to facilitate a sale when there is no sale? Why should a new buyer with low feedback be able to take down a legitimate listing, blocking actual sales that generates revenue for eBay and for the seller, with essentially no consequences? Or why should a seasoned eBayer be able to get a four day lay-a-way at the expense of the seller?
Here's a coin, because Peace dollars are super hot right now 
--Severian the Lame
Comments
If it were left to me, I'd distinguish auctions from buy-it-now purchases. Because in the case of the former, the bidder might not even know until days later, whether he'll end up winning the item and/or at what price.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You aren't the crazy one. You can set your BIN listings to require immediate payment, but I do not think payment is required if a best offer is accepted
I know it used to be there but I just looked and don't see that option available.
Simple answer...... Ebay believes buyers are never wrong.
2021 Spring Seller Update
New cancel function for unpaid items
Starting in early April 2021, we’ll begin introducing a new cancel function for unpaid items. You’ll no longer have to file unpaid item claims or send payment reminders. Instead, we’ll proactively remind buyers if they have a payment due, and you’ll be able to manually or automatically cancel an order if the buyer hasn’t paid after 5 calendar days.
A quicker, more streamlined way to handle unpaid items
We’re introducing this new function to help you resolve unpaid item cases quicker and with less work.
-We’ll proactively remind buyers to pay once they commit to purchasing an item.
-If a buyer hasn’t paid after 5 calendar days, you can cancel the transaction.
-You can choose to have eBay automatically relist the item when you cancel the transaction.
-You’ll be able to set up automatic cancellations for non-payment in your “Preferences for items awaiting payment.”
-If you cancel an order because the buyer hasn’t paid, we’ll block that buyer’s ability to leave feedback and, if they’ve already left feedback, we’ll remove it.
https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/seller-updates/2021-spring/business.html
Ebay, in it's quest to balance buyers and sellers interests, is again putting it's thumb on the scale in favor of the seller.
But, to be fair, most ecommerce websites DO allow you to "purchase" something and pay for it a few days later. Indeed, if you wait a few days, you often get a better offer from the seller or website. Just put items in your shopping cart and don't complete the sale and watch the better offers come in. This is why I believe that ebay is cutting buyers more slack here than they should, at least for coins and other one of a kind items.
And that's the difference between your case and other sellers. What you (and we) sell is often one of a kind so there is a lost opportunity if a buyer backs out. Other internet sellers don't lose the opportunity to make the sale if they have many duplicate items. Different rules should apply to one of a kind items and buyers should have to pay when they commit tp purchase.
You can set your terms to require immediate payment.
However, be aware that every "solution" creates a new problem. Sellers who require an immediate payment are a pet peeve of mine.
Why? Because in some cases I want to purchase multiple items to get combined shipping. Immediate payment causes issues with that.
Whenever, I am watching and planning on bidding on items and win an item, I immediately inform the seller that, IF they are agreeable, I would pay after the last item I'm watching. I have always been told by the seller "thank you for your purchase and that would be fine". And I always ask for immediate payment on bin's and always get it. I also when thanking customers via feedback, note their prompt payment and welcome them back again. Courtesy is required by all parties to complete a pleasant transaction, whether buying or selling. Then, that is JMO.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I don't eBay, but I buy stuff on other places like Great Collections, Stacks, Spink, HA etc and pay right away, I want my stuff.
If someone does a BIN on eBay and then doesn't pay - suggest they are short of dosh and hoping to get a bit of a float at your expense.
In the highly unlikely event I sold stuff on eBay, been 2.5 years now, I would block them from future bidding.
One reason...
I sell a lot of inexpensive items. I don't want to have to pay the 30 cent transaction fee on every one of twelve different coins a buyer wants because he's required to pay for each instantaneously.
When I used to frequent ebay (and I have not for a couple of years now), when I won an auction or a BIN, payment was made immediately. Before paypal and other options, payment was in the mail the very next day. I just believe in prompt payment, as in other business transactions. Cheers, RickO
I was under the impression that an item with "Buy it Now" requiring instant payment can be added to you "Cart" and then you pay for all items in your cart at the same time. I have done this in the past but don't know if something has changed.
This is a very important consideration, especially if there is a separate shipping charge. Even as a seller, what will happen is a buyer will buy multiple items, end up paying multiple shipping charges and then contact me for a refund of the shipping charges.
Personally, I don't find very many buyers who fail to pay. So, if it takes a buyer a few days to pay, I don't care. It is quite rare that someone never returns to pay.
There is no amount of wording I can add to keep some buyers from paying for a boatload of items before I have a chance to adjust the shipping. Some pay and then get angry that shipping was $20 when it would have been $4.50 if they had just waited. With a payment somewhere like PayPal, the fee to refund the excess shipping doesn't get refunded, so I either lose money because the buyer didn't give me a chance to adjust the shipping, or I don't refund 100% of the excess so as to cover the fee.
Last I checked, it still works this way.
In theory, but it does not always seem to work that way.
Plus, I have lots of stuff in my cart, for various reasons.
Of 23 auction sells this past month 3 flaked out paying which seemed rather high bs past. Retail (non auc) buyers paid promptly. Flake outs buyers had low feedback activity vs their time on eBay for most part although one rather 5000 fb plus did flake out. All subsequently blocked.
For the most part buyers pay right away or at least in 12 hr.
It is what it is. eBay holds the cards. Just don’t get behind on your bills….like rent, mortgage, utilities, food, etc. Stay away from credit card debt and never ever use that run up hefty balances to buy coins.
For shipping my policy all items free shipping. Shipping cost factored in.
We could bash the bay all day but there are flakes at shows like guy telling u put it aside he wb back but does not return.
Even though eBay sends the buyer an automatic invoice, to the people that don't pay instantly, I will send them one with "If you pay by - xxxx, I will be able to ship on - xxxx. That usually gets the payment made.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Part of the problem is that ebay doesn't do anything to non-paying bidders.
They want you to think they do but much like the rest of their customer service, it's all smoke & mirrors.
I had a buyer purchase a coin, after a day of no pay the buyer contacted me asking for a few more days to pay, I said Okay.
It started with give me 4 days, after 2 weeks I had to cancel the sale. This buyer's feedback shows many unpaid items, enough so that sellers are leaving false positives. Think of all the sellers that would just block and move on, I'm sure there are more unpaid items than their feedback would suggest. They have only ben a member since 2/28/21 and have a lot of unpaid items.
On a side note this buyer opened another account to avoid my blocked bidder list and purchased the coin again.
I canceled the sale and reported it to ebay. Ebay deleted the new alt account but did nothing to the buyer for trying to bypass the block. ( an ebay policy violation )
Here are the feedback.
https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/justinejewels?filter=feedback_page:All&_trksid=p2545226.m2531.l4585
No Communication, No payment
buyer canceled but had really great communication with buyer
BAD EBAYER...BIDS NEVER PAYS ..NEVER ANSWER..GAME PLAYER
BEWARE!!!! THIS BIDDER HAS A HISTORY OF BIDDING UP ITEMS AND NOT PAYING FOR THEM
AVOID!!!! Non-Paying BINs. No communication.
Item (1923 Peace Dollar) was purchased on auction and buyer failed to pay. Two requests were made for payment over the next 7 days with no response. Not a very good experience.
Thank you for making this bid. We all can forget. Hope you were having fun.
Didn't want coin so they returned it no problems with return.
Customer didn't pay. Beware.
Out of 120 feedback there are 8 we can see there was a problem.
I did not leave a false positive for their transaction with me.
Ebay cares about sellers and takes action against non-paying bidders.
People may only check on ebay every few days. So a winning bid might not be discovered right away. There are times I let the seller know that I am going to bid on another one of their items and want to wait to see if I win so that the items can be packaged together and save me on postage.
BIN is a different story.
All above mentioned problems are instantly solved.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Welcome to retail.
I'd rather they not pay than return it later.
Ebay does suspend but doesn't seem to ban non-payers.
On my list of business problems, it's about #136.
The only crazy here is your expectation that something eBay does should make sense.
It was not possible for me to buy and sell there and still enjoy the hobby..... so I found other options.
4th requirement: do not accept offers
The immediate payment requirement goes away on offers.
correct. If I get messaged a reasonable offer I simply revise my BIN price, keeping the requirement for immediate payment.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
This same issue seems to be the norm for some people.
Listed a pretty hot item Tuesday evening. Many views, a few watchers. Then got two offers in quick succession overnight Wednesday to Thursday. Lowish but not crazy low. Countered on them when I woke up Thursday at a good discount but reasonable. About an hour later got a 3rd offer very close to my asking. This was around 8:00 am Thursday.
Seasoned eBayer with over 2,000 feedback.
Decided immediately to go for the bird in the hand, accepted that last offer. Easily within 5 minutes of receiving it, fully expecting them to pay the ~$100 within a minute or two so I could ship that morning.
Crickets.
Nothing Thursday, nothing Friday, nothing Saturday as of 6:00 pm central.
No payment, no communication, no "I'll pay first thing Sunday". Zip.
It's not like they put in a bid on an auction and won it 5 days later. Was their hand hovering over the "send" button on their offer while they prepared to run outside and jump in their car to avoid paying the winning bid?
You make an offer and I accept within 5 minutes, I kind of expect you to actually pay. Or at the absolute minimum, message me to tell me you're a piece of work and apologize for not paying for the next 48-72 hours.
--Severian the Lame
More than once, I had a buyer simply disappear after committing to a purchase, only to find they were selling a similar coin (same series, tpg, date, grade) for significantly higher and sidelined me for days. There are some major *holes on eBay. Report them and eBay makes you wait out the clock. Meanwhile, if they get taken down, they come back up as another zero feedback seller.
That's a real jerk move.
--Severian the Lame
You've never had someone buy your listing, steal your photos, and then try to sell it again for more on ebay before they paid? I have.
@amwldcoin ... sounds like an effective rather dynamic take on last-in/first-out inventory .... where its never "in"....until its out.
Unfortunately this is a trick by some sellers to reduce their competition. Before I send an offer or counter offer I check their listings to see if they are selling a similar item. If so, no offer. I then block them to keep them from purchasing and taking advantage of my free returns.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
buy it now listings only with immediate payment required. Unfortunately you cannot do this with offers even if the listing is a BIN.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Really really sucks... Can't think of much to do about it. Yikes... 😟
I've never delayed paying a BIN and have paid immediately (is there another way?), but have delayed an accepted offer or an auction win, simply because of the natural time lag. As a collector or shopper for anything I'm prepared to pay immediately once I commit to a purchase. even if it's just an earnest money payment. I would say that a fair eBay policy would be immediate payment for a BIN, 48 hours for anything else.
I would add that a seller should be allowed to extend credit if they so desire to attract certain customers, just as other retailers do, But the default should be as above.
Update: Noon on Sunday. No payment, no text, nothing.
--Severian the Lame
...and paid.
Bid offered 8:12 am Thursday, accepted 8:15 am Thursday.
Paid for 1:30 PM Sunday.
At least they paid, right?
--Severian the Lame
He may have had to sell some coins or sell a kidney to raise the money to buy your coin. Glad everything worked out for you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
From eBay:
Paying for items
Timelines for paying
When you buy an item on eBay, whether you won an auction or used Buy It Now, you'll need to pay the seller within 4 days.
https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/paying-items/paying-items?id=4009&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001
That's my point. There shouldn't be a 4-day window in which to pay for something once it's "purchased".
Buyers should be required to have their funds in a transmissible form or else they shouldn't be able to click the "BUY" button.
Where else can you "buy" something without having the money to pay for it?
--Severian the Lame
I get your point. My point is that your problem is with eBay for having that policy, not the buyer for following it. And it's unfair to the buyer to be blamed for the problem.
Perhaps you could include something in your listings explaining your expectations, when they are more restrictive than eBay's? At least it would give potential buyers an opportunity to avoid becoming a problem for you.
Slow payers couldn't give a hoot if you say: 'I expect to be paid immediately, and if you can't please don't bid on this coin.'
Maybe not. If you expect to be paid immediately, the solution is to run fixed price sales with the "immediate payment" option enabled and don't accept offers.
I'm patient when it comes to folks paying. As long as they pay I R happy as I'm not living on a shoestring budget!
And if you am happy, so am we 🙂
Congrats on 10k posts!
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I haven't sold on eBay for years, but is it possible to cancel and block if you're not paid within 24 hours (or 15 minutes)?
They have an immediate payment option. If you don't choose to use it, it would appear you're agreeing to allow the buyer four days to pay.
You can cancel anytime, paid or not. Just click cancel sale and then click "item lost or stolen"
There is a good chance that if you cancel before 4 days you could end up with bad feedback and ebay would not remove it.
Edited to add: You can place anyone on your block list at any time.
If you claim "item lost or stolen" when it's not, don't you deserve bad feedback?
To add to @MasonG 's comment. Not only are you probably open to neg feedback ebay will give you what I call a demerit which will affect your visibility. 1st choice would be problem with address, 2nd would be seller asked to cancel which could draw some wrath from the buyer. Neither of these choices will hurt your seller record.