Colin Cowherd says Shohei Ohtani is better than Babe Ruth

doubledragon

Is this true? Here is the video of Colin Cowherd. The video switches to basketball talk at about the 5:00 mark so just cut it off when it switches.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ck5-X0WUsMM

doubledragon

Very interesting.

doubledragon

This post never happened, you hear me, it never happened!

thisistheshow

We all know Cowherd says a lot of things...

Goldenage

Colin Cowherds ancestors told Columbus the world was flat.

1951WheatiesPremium

Potential for a better single season than Ruth had as a two way player? Yes - for sure. There’s a chance of that.

Overall better player? No, not yet. If one good half season makes you better than the best of all time, I have a Shane Spencer rookie card to sell…

blurryface

who? never cowheard of him.

1948_Swell_Robinson

He is 100% correct on the overall level of ability today being worlds better than in Babe Ruth's time. The example of the 1970's Reds pitchers all throwing under 90MPH is a good recent example.

The MLB average fastball was 88.6 MPH in 2002 and has been steadily climbing and was up to 93.1 MPH in 2020. That is an absolute significant increase.

This is a chart that only goes up to 2016.

https://theatlas.com/charts/S1-DccGC

With that chart and some common sense on population size we can see the average MLB fastball being around 80 MPH in Ruth's time...and helps explain why he was able to routinely pull the ball with a 48 ounce bat.

They aren't just out there firing fastballs as hard as they can either today. They have command. They are actually throwing breaking pitches more often now too(and they are filthier than ever and spin rate can attest to that). They most certainly are being trained to maximize velocity(without losing command)...and it is showing.

In addition to throwing harder, the pitchers are getting taller and stronger as well....releasing the ball closer to home plate more than ever before.

Average MLB pitcher height in 1960 was six foot one and 190 pounds.
Average MLB pitcher height in 2000 was six foot two and 197 pounds.
Average MLB pitcher height in 2019 was six foot three and 215 pounds.

There may be a human limit to velocity, some guys had it in the past, but now there are simply more people in the world to choose from that could possess such natural ability, and they are being trained better to develop it, so there are simply more of them possessing 95+ with command on the MLB level.

The same for the hitters, there are simply more hitters capable of hitting the ball 425 feet and more people capable of squaring up a 96 MPH pitch....and they are trained better to do it.

Thats why I always chuckle when everyone's list of the best five hitters ever are players that all started before 1940. True they may have dominated their league better than any other era, but thats because the league was easier to dominate. It doesn't make them better because they dominated inferior players who were physically smaller and had less tools.

Even after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier the league was still filled with mostly white united states males. As late as 1957 the league was still 88.2% white american citizens playing. There was no world wide talent.

Ohtani is already too old(and not played enough games) to have a career to match someone like Ruth...but what ALL players are doing against this talent level is more impressive than what Hornsby did against that pitching and poor defense. There are reasons why Horsnby hit .420 and its not because he was better than the hitters today. Fielding is another of the reasons.

Just by simply watching the games now and comparing them to baseball in the 1970's, the infielders all have canons from shortstop. They all make the plays in the hole look routine now. The best SS arm of 1974 would be as good as the worst SS arm today.

The league fielding percentage is routinely .984 today. Even in the 1970's it was just .976 range

In 1920 the league fielding percentage was .964.

Range? Bigger, faster, and stronger. No comparison now either.

erikthredd

Cowherd rhymes with Cowturd.

1951WheatiesPremium

Again, I don’t think you are wrong about very much of what you have said.

However, I do think there’s a portion you aren’t giving enough credit for and that is the value of breaking new ground. There are no time machines and all of the money, training and physical improvements (how many of those measurable improvements have more to do with chemistry than technique) are available simply because of how dominant Babe Ruth was at baseball. Baseball was growing in popularity but the performance of Babe Ruth, arguably, made it the National Pastime and that ripple effect is still felt every time a baseball team hands out a big fat check to a great player in the hopes of reversing the teams fortunes.

Today’s players significantly benefit from the successes and failures of hundreds and thousands of players, coaches, statisticians and scientists who created the very bank of information and resources from which they learn, train, study and benefit.

Baseball is now an industry, you are right, with factories all over the globe putting out product designed to be powerful and popular for a shot making at a fortune. How many parents ‘invest’ time and money into their child’s baseball career in the hopes of reaping financial rewards like scholarships and pro salaries?

Well, Babe Ruth, aptly put, not only dominated the sport but also elevated it to the perch upon which it sits to this very day.

Babe Ruth made baseball big business.

1951WheatiesPremium

@1948_Swell_Robinson

See above - I like always seem to like your posts.

PS - There’s a reason why Shohei Ohtani was billed as “maybe the next Babe Ruth…it’s been 100 years and at least in the public consciousness we’ve still not seen anyone as good. For me, that says quite a bit.

Alfonz24

cowherd has diarrhea of the mouth

1948_Swell_Robinson

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Again, I don’t think you are wrong about very much of what you have said.

However, I do think there’s a portion you aren’t giving enough credit for and that is the value of breaking new ground. There are no time machines and all of the money, training and physical improvements (how many of those measurable improvements have more to do with chemistry than technique) are available simply because of how dominant Babe Ruth was at baseball. Baseball was growing in popularity but the performance of Babe Ruth, arguably, made it the National Pastime and that ripple effect is still felt every time a baseball team hands out a big fat check to a great player in the hopes of reversing the teams fortunes.

Today’s players significantly benefit from the successes and failures of hundreds and thousands of players, coaches, statisticians and scientists who created the very bank of information and resources from which they learn, train, study and benefit.

Baseball is now an industry, you are right, with factories all over the globe putting out product designed to be powerful and popular for a shot making at a fortune. How many parents ‘invest’ time and money into their child’s baseball career in the hopes of reaping financial rewards like scholarships and pro salaries?

Well, Babe Ruth, aptly put, not only dominated the sport but also elevated it to the perch upon which it sits to this very day.

Babe Ruth made baseball big business.

Well said. I do want to say I have great admiration for Ruth and all the other ground breaking players throughout the years. No matter where they may rank or not, their place in history is cemented...as long as our society keeps its history intact.

1948_Swell_Robinson

In regard to Ohtani and all the press he is getting today, the baseball world is glossing over the arrival of the new sheriff in town. The new best hitter has arrived and will be King for the next ten years. He was very much hyped coming up(it was well deserved), and it took him a year and a half to gain his MLB footing, but Vlad Jr. is the best hitter in MLB right now.

Still only 22 years old....Vlad Jr. will mash his way into the HOF and be the best hitter of the new millennium....a better hitter than Trout.

Goldenage

Lol. Ohtani is no Trout. Trout is no
Ruth.
If the comparison doesn’t make you lol then join the herd.

blurryface

comparing anyone today to someone that played 100 years ago is just nonsense to begin with. i understand why folks do the comparison call but there are just so many elements that are so different. from equipment, rules, training, medical advances, traveling, night games, schedules, overall talent, science and just so many other factors that make the practical comparison null and void when you actually think about it. yes they both pitched and had a good bat. they both had two arms and two legs too. thats doesnt mean all things are equal.

1948_Swell_Robinson

Aside from my post above(which I stand by with ample evidence), for clarification, the video is incorrect on one thing. Ruth did do both at the same time(pitch and hit) for one year. Half of another year.

In 1919 Ruth had 133 IP and and 543 plate appearances. Boston only played 137 games that year so Ruth was quite close to qualifying for enough innings for ERA title.

Ruth led the league in OPS+ that year and his ERA+ was 102(just about average). In that sense, Ohtani is doing better pitching wise...but not quite as good hitting wise(compared to his league and Ruth to his league).

I don't think Ohtani is going to get to 162 Innings Pitched this year to qualify for 'full time' Innings pitched.

I don't think Ohtani is going to eclipse 133 IP either.

So the video isn't entirely accurate on saying Ruth did not do them simultaneously.

FredJRI

I'd never thought I'd say it, but agree with many sportscasters and baseball annalists.

OHTANI is a s good maybe even better than RUTH !!!! overall

Mistlin

He's not wrong.

Ruth was lucky to have played when he did.

bronco2078

i agree with wristpin

craig44

oh man, a DD thread. sometimes i miss that guy

perkdog

@craig44 said:
oh man, a DD thread. sometimes i miss that guy

The old DD before he became the biggest crybaby weirdo I've ever seen on these forums.

I don't miss any of that at all, but hopefully the kid got help if he really needed it

Steven59

More banned people in this thread than actives............

countdouglas

@perkdog said:

@craig44 said:
oh man, a DD thread. sometimes i miss that guy

The old DD before he became the biggest crybaby weirdo I've ever seen on these forums.

I don't miss any of that at all, but hopefully the kid got help if he really needed it

I'm not sure if I'm recalling correctly, but wasn't DD a resident of North Carolina, near Ashville? Terrible what happened there. Best wishes to DD, and all of his friends and family. I hope they're all safe and healthy.

Neanderthal

@countdouglas said:

@perkdog said:

@craig44 said:
oh man, a DD thread. sometimes i miss that guy

The old DD before he became the biggest crybaby weirdo I've ever seen on these forums.

I don't miss any of that at all, but hopefully the kid got help if he really needed it

I'm not sure if I'm recalling correctly, but wasn't DD a resident of North Carolina, near Ashville? Terrible what happened there. Best wishes to DD, and all of his friends and family. I hope they're all safe and healthy.

Thank you for the concern countdouglas, but I'm doing great, I live in an area that wasn't effected by the hurricane too badly. To those who think that I'm a "crybaby", a "weirdo" or "mentally ill" or whatever else, I assure you that I am none of those things. Besides, you don't have to worry, I'm not going to be posting on this site too much anymore, I've found a new forum, and it's a shame because this place sure could use a shot in the arm, you wouldn't even know it's NFL season around here. No picks contest, no wall-to-wall coverage of Aaron Rodgers being washed up, and no mention of how Mike McDaniel looks exactly like Shock-G from Digital Underground. Have a nice NFL season everyone, take care, and do the humpty hump.

perkdog

Glad your ok DD

My mother's friend lost her daughter, partner and 2 kids from the horrific disaster in North Carolina

Beyond Tragic

erikthredd

DD, ngl I figured that account was you when you posted your Mickey Ward pickup lol. It’s good to hear you’re doing well. I’m hoping you at least stick around even if sparingly.

bgr

Digital Underground. Tupac was in that group too. Thanks for the reminder. Love it.