This is more than double what I thought this coin should sell for less than a year ago. In fact, it is double what the first AU53 CAC Fairmont 54-O sold for as recently as August. Are these permanent price increases or auction exuberance?
Strong but not stupid price. The 1858 $5 is a sleeper and has been for years. The guides are likely low as so few trade especially in CAC. When you consider the rarity of the coin compared others in the series the price is just fine even if higher than guide.
I think Fairmont gold in CAC is also going strong because those coins haven’t been doctored yet. I’ve only got one Fairmont CAC so far and it’s a beauty.
I keep repeating this, but I'll say it again: price guides are lagging the current market exuberance even for widgets. For scarcer material, the guides may not accurately reflect the market for quite a while as it is a moving target.
I bid on the 1883cc $5 in P45 CAC. I had a bid of $5,500 ($6,600 with the vig), which I thought was stupid money, but I collect cc coins in P45 CAC. I apparently lost to a cut bid with a final all in number of $6,900. I would have guessed before the auction that it was a $4,500 to $5,000 coin.
All in all, I really like the look of the fairmont coins.
I wonder how deep the Fairmont hoard actually is. It destroyed the premiums on Type 1 $20's like the 1856. I sure hope the rare dates remain actually rare after all is said and done.
@Boosibri said:
I wonder how deep the Fairmont hoard actually is. It destroyed the premiums on Type 1 $20's like the 1856. I sure hope the rare dates remain actually rare after all is said and done.
I have read that they cherry picked for the first round but there is a lot left. But there are other small hoards in Europe that I imagine will be sold off in the coming years. Isn’t there another hoard that’s getting ready to sell soon that’s being slabbed by NGC?
@Boosibri said:
I wonder how deep the Fairmont hoard actually is. It destroyed the premiums on Type 1 $20's like the 1856. I sure hope the rare dates remain actually rare after all is said and done.
I don't collect DE's but it could be that certain of the type ones were initially fairly common.
What we are seeing with the Fairmount Half Eagles is scarce and rare dates are hitting the market fresh and undoctored. The prices are increasing on duplicates reflecting market expansion and increasing demand and the price guides aren't keeping up.
I don't know why CAC is so conservative on pricing, maybe they are anticipating price appreciation so they can claim more value in CAC stickers as a business plan. And that is fine, but collectors are getting blown out of the water on bids which is inefficient pricing and that in turn discourages higher bids and quells demand.
@Boosibri said:
I wonder how deep the Fairmont hoard actually is. It destroyed the premiums on Type 1 $20's like the 1856. I sure hope the rare dates remain actually rare after all is said and done.
I don't collect DE's but it could be that certain of the type ones were initially fairly common.
What we are seeing with the Fairmount Half Eagles is scarce and rare dates are hitting the market fresh and undoctored. The prices are increasing on duplicates reflecting market expansion and increasing demand and the price guides aren't keeping up.
I don't know why CAC is so conservative on pricing, maybe they are anticipating price appreciation so they can claim more value in CAC stickers as a business plan. And that is fine, but collectors are getting blown out of the water on bids which is inefficient pricing and that in turn discourages higher bids and quells demand.
Price guides wake up.
There is a reason I don't pay attention to price guides.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Has anyone else been looking at auction pricing on generic Saints in P66 CAC lately, compared to CAC guide? Jees.
Doug Winter has suggested that the rarity distribution of older gold doesn't change when new sources not assembled by collectors, like Fairmount, appear. Other than the appearance of new top-pop coins in Saddle Ridge, I believe it was generally true that there wasn't suddenly a whole lot more '66-S no-motto $20's, for example.
@ranshdow said:
Has anyone else been looking at auction pricing on generic Saints in P66 CAC lately, compared to CAC guide? Jees.
Doug Winter has suggested that the rarity distribution of older gold doesn't change when new sources not assembled by collectors, like Fairmount, appear. Other than the appearance of new top-pop coins in Saddle Ridge, I believe it was generally true that there wasn't suddenly a whole lot more '66-S no-motto $20's, for example.
DW may have been right until the Kunker sale a few months ago in Germany. Kunker had multiple higher grade $5’s, $10’s, and $20’s including key dates from New Orleans and Carson City.
@skier07 said:
DW may have been right until the Kunker sale a few months ago in Germany. Kunker had multiple higher grade $5’s, $10’s, and $20’s including key dates from New Orleans and Carson City.
I read this as the pop/rarity/condition distributions didn't really change, but should add, this is not talking about Kunker, it's talking about Stacks-Bowers.
An excerpt:
PHILADELPHIA NO MOTTO:
Virtually every date from 1839 through 1861 is represented in the August 2020 offering. It is interesting to note that none of the rare 1862-1865 Civil War dates are present, and this makes sense as these coins were rare basically from the time they were struck onward.
SAN FRANCISCO:
The No Motto dates from this mint were represented by all the dates from 1855 through 1860 except for the 1858-S. Lot 1409, the 1857-S, was a nice PCGS/CAC AU55 which was the best hoard example of this date I can recall seeing. I was interested to see that the 1859-S, 1860-S, 1862-S and 1865-S were very low grade, proving that these issues saw active circulation.
@ranshdow said:
Has anyone else been looking at auction pricing on generic Saints in P66 CAC lately, compared to CAC guide? Jees.
Doug Winter has suggested that the rarity distribution of older gold doesn't change when new sources not assembled by collectors, like Fairmount, appear. Other than the appearance of new top-pop coins in Saddle Ridge, I believe it was generally true that there wasn't suddenly a whole lot more '66-S no-motto $20's, for example.
DW may have been right until the Kunker sale a few months ago in Germany. Kunker had multiple higher grade $5’s, $10’s, and $20’s including key dates from New Orleans and Carson City.
There were like 5 1862 $5! That is the 10% of the gradeable population!
@skier07 said:
DW may have been right until the Kunker sale a few months ago in Germany. Kunker had multiple higher grade $5’s, $10’s, and $20’s including key dates from New Orleans and Carson City.
I read this as the pop/rarity/condition distributions didn't really change, but should add, this is not talking about Kunker, it's talking about Stacks-Bowers.
An excerpt:
PHILADELPHIA NO MOTTO:
Virtually every date from 1839 through 1861 is represented in the August 2020 offering. It is interesting to note that none of the rare 1862-1865 Civil War dates are present, and this makes sense as these coins were rare basically from the time they were struck onward.
SAN FRANCISCO:
The No Motto dates from this mint were represented by all the dates from 1855 through 1860 except for the 1858-S. Lot 1409, the 1857-S, was a nice PCGS/CAC AU55 which was the best hoard example of this date I can recall seeing. I was interested to see that the 1859-S, 1860-S, 1862-S and 1865-S were very low grade, proving that these issues saw active circulation.
The population of those pre-Civil War $5's like the 1858-S has steadily rose over the past 5 years. I do wonder if some of the best coins from the hoard hit the market before the naming of the grouping as "Fairmount". I at one time owned what I presumed to be one of the best 1858-S $5's and the only AU58 CAC. There was a 61 and two 58's. Now at PCGS there are 7 58's including a 58+ that was owned by a forum member. This is only 3 years ago that the pops were as such and the price has gone down by 2/3rds!
So, buying into nice EF Fairmount pieces is probably still reasonably safe on the assumption that the market can absorb several $3-$5k coins, but I would stay the hell away from top graded better date $5's right now.
I don't dabble in this market much, but i wonder how my 1880 $20 would do nowadays? It's in an old no line NGC fatty holder graded AU-53. I got this better date for just over melt about 20 years ago on Teletrade and with no images. It's never been to CAC either
The population of those pre-Civil War $5's like the 1858-S has steadily rose over the past 5 years. I do wonder if some of the best coins from the hoard hit the market before the naming of the grouping as "Fairmount". I at one time owned what I presumed to be one of the best 1858-S $5's and the only AU58 CAC. There was a 61 and two 58's. Now at PCGS there are 7 58's including a 58+ that was owned by a forum member. This is only 3 years ago that the pops were as such and the price has gone down by 2/3rds!
I remember when your 1858-S $5 was the only CAC coin in AU58. It looks like there are two now, and one in AU55, which I don't remember (I own the CAC example in AU50), so your implicit question as to where these newies came from is legitimate IMO. I'd like to see these two new coins, to see if they look like a stereotypical Fairmount coin- a bit hacked up and baggy, but with original surfaces. Too bad CAC isn't linked to Coinfacts! ;D
So, buying into nice EF Fairmount pieces is probably still reasonably safe on the assumption that the market can absorb several $3-$5k coins, but I would stay the hell away from top graded better date $5's right now.
To me, and overgeneralizing, Fairmount coins have somewhat negative eye appeal, and as such they don't really compete with a lot of the nicer non-Fairmount coins. But I focus on SF gold and haven't looked closely at the other branch mint issues. Those series might not match my impressions of the Fairmount SF gold.
To me, and overgeneralizing, Fairmount coins have somewhat negative eye appeal, and as such they don't really compete with a lot of the nicer non-Fairmount coins. But I focus on SF gold and haven't looked closely at the other branch mint issues. Those series might not match my impressions of the Fairmount SF gold.
Some of the Fairmount are not that nice but many are superb plucked from circulation condition.
@ElmerFusterpuck said:
I don't dabble in this market much, but i wonder how my 1880 $20 would do nowadays? It's in an old no line NGC fatty holder graded AU-53. I got this better date for just over melt about 20 years ago on Teletrade and with no images. It's never been to CAC either
Well you'd be up $300-$400 just based on the gold. PCGS has the coin at around $2,600, CPG $2,400. Heritage has a 1875-S AU-55 selling for $2,100. The PCGS price has both coins (1880-P and 1875-S( valued the same so that may give you some indication of where this coin is at today. Of course if you get two eager buyers anything can happen.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Bid war. It’s amazing somebody paid over 2x PCGS PG for it (op coin). What would it bring if start on the bay at 99c or shop around bourse at show? Nowhere near that my guess.
fathom
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The coin sold for a high price but I doubt it had much to do with Fairmont.
This is more than double what I thought this coin should sell for less than a year ago. In fact, it is double what the first AU53 CAC Fairmont 54-O sold for as recently as August. Are these permanent price increases or auction exuberance?
Strong but not stupid price. The 1858 $5 is a sleeper and has been for years. The guides are likely low as so few trade especially in CAC. When you consider the rarity of the coin compared others in the series the price is just fine even if higher than guide.
Latin American Collection
I think Fairmont gold in CAC is also going strong because those coins haven’t been doctored yet. I’ve only got one Fairmont CAC so far and it’s a beauty.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Clearly the Fairmount material is a market indicator.
Duplicate coins are selling for more the second go around.
Unmolested semi key and key date gold is especially hot right now.
I keep repeating this, but I'll say it again: price guides are lagging the current market exuberance even for widgets. For scarcer material, the guides may not accurately reflect the market for quite a while as it is a moving target.
I am paying over guide on since coins to RESELL.
Strong indeed.
I put in STRONG bids on about a dozen HEs and was absolutely destroyed on almost all of them, just underbidder on few but still way over APRs...
I was the underbidder on the 54O and yes it was more than I wanted to pay but I didnt think it would beat its March result...
Successful BST Transactions with: PerryHall, MrSlider, Cent1225, SurfinxHI, Blu62vette, robkool, gowithmygut, coinlieutenant, Downtown1974, MilesWaits, Shrub68, justindan
NO $5’s are hot!
Latin American Collection
I bid on the 1883cc $5 in P45 CAC. I had a bid of $5,500 ($6,600 with the vig), which I thought was stupid money, but I collect cc coins in P45 CAC. I apparently lost to a cut bid with a final all in number of $6,900. I would have guessed before the auction that it was a $4,500 to $5,000 coin.
All in all, I really like the look of the fairmont coins.
I wonder how deep the Fairmont hoard actually is. It destroyed the premiums on Type 1 $20's like the 1856. I sure hope the rare dates remain actually rare after all is said and done.
Latin American Collection
I have read that they cherry picked for the first round but there is a lot left. But there are other small hoards in Europe that I imagine will be sold off in the coming years. Isn’t there another hoard that’s getting ready to sell soon that’s being slabbed by NGC?
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
I don't collect DE's but it could be that certain of the type ones were initially fairly common.
What we are seeing with the Fairmount Half Eagles is scarce and rare dates are hitting the market fresh and undoctored. The prices are increasing on duplicates reflecting market expansion and increasing demand and the price guides aren't keeping up.
I don't know why CAC is so conservative on pricing, maybe they are anticipating price appreciation so they can claim more value in CAC stickers as a business plan. And that is fine, but collectors are getting blown out of the water on bids which is inefficient pricing and that in turn discourages higher bids and quells demand.
Price guides wake up.
There is a reason I don't pay attention to price guides.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Has anyone else been looking at auction pricing on generic Saints in P66 CAC lately, compared to CAC guide? Jees.
Doug Winter has suggested that the rarity distribution of older gold doesn't change when new sources not assembled by collectors, like Fairmount, appear. Other than the appearance of new top-pop coins in Saddle Ridge, I believe it was generally true that there wasn't suddenly a whole lot more '66-S no-motto $20's, for example.
DW may have been right until the Kunker sale a few months ago in Germany. Kunker had multiple higher grade $5’s, $10’s, and $20’s including key dates from New Orleans and Carson City.
Here's what he had to say.
I read this as the pop/rarity/condition distributions didn't really change, but should add, this is not talking about Kunker, it's talking about Stacks-Bowers.
An excerpt:
PHILADELPHIA NO MOTTO:
Virtually every date from 1839 through 1861 is represented in the August 2020 offering. It is interesting to note that none of the rare 1862-1865 Civil War dates are present, and this makes sense as these coins were rare basically from the time they were struck onward.
SAN FRANCISCO:
The No Motto dates from this mint were represented by all the dates from 1855 through 1860 except for the 1858-S. Lot 1409, the 1857-S, was a nice PCGS/CAC AU55 which was the best hoard example of this date I can recall seeing. I was interested to see that the 1859-S, 1860-S, 1862-S and 1865-S were very low grade, proving that these issues saw active circulation.
There were like 5 1862 $5! That is the 10% of the gradeable population!
Latin American Collection
The population of those pre-Civil War $5's like the 1858-S has steadily rose over the past 5 years. I do wonder if some of the best coins from the hoard hit the market before the naming of the grouping as "Fairmount". I at one time owned what I presumed to be one of the best 1858-S $5's and the only AU58 CAC. There was a 61 and two 58's. Now at PCGS there are 7 58's including a 58+ that was owned by a forum member. This is only 3 years ago that the pops were as such and the price has gone down by 2/3rds!
So, buying into nice EF Fairmount pieces is probably still reasonably safe on the assumption that the market can absorb several $3-$5k coins, but I would stay the hell away from top graded better date $5's right now.
Latin American Collection
There were five higher grade 1878-CC $10’s (population 75) in the Kunker sale. This can’t be good for prices.
I don't dabble in this market much, but i wonder how my 1880 $20 would do nowadays? It's in an old no line NGC fatty holder graded AU-53. I got this better date for just over melt about 20 years ago on Teletrade and with no images. It's never been to CAC either
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
I remember when your 1858-S $5 was the only CAC coin in AU58. It looks like there are two now, and one in AU55, which I don't remember (I own the CAC example in AU50), so your implicit question as to where these newies came from is legitimate IMO. I'd like to see these two new coins, to see if they look like a stereotypical Fairmount coin- a bit hacked up and baggy, but with original surfaces. Too bad CAC isn't linked to Coinfacts! ;D
To me, and overgeneralizing, Fairmount coins have somewhat negative eye appeal, and as such they don't really compete with a lot of the nicer non-Fairmount coins. But I focus on SF gold and haven't looked closely at the other branch mint issues. Those series might not match my impressions of the Fairmount SF gold.
>
Some of the Fairmount are not that nice but many are superb plucked from circulation condition.
Well you'd be up $300-$400 just based on the gold. PCGS has the coin at around $2,600, CPG $2,400. Heritage has a 1875-S AU-55 selling for $2,100. The PCGS price has both coins (1880-P and 1875-S( valued the same so that may give you some indication of where this coin is at today. Of course if you get two eager buyers anything can happen.
Bid war. It’s amazing somebody paid over 2x PCGS PG for it (op coin). What would it bring if start on the bay at 99c or shop around bourse at show? Nowhere near that my guess.
But if you can get what he did blow it all out.
Good luck shopping it on the bourse but on eBay with some like Great Southern Coins the sky is potentially the limit.